Project 2025/Holzfäller: Big Bad Wolf 2 (B&M Family Invert)
- Thread starter Zachary
- Start date
- Status
Does anyone else notice the similarities between Festhaus Park and Wildwood Grove at Dollywood?
I figured it wouldn’t be feasible. Just disappointing that they seem intent on developing a spot that there’s going to be a tough way to have in park transit get you close. Personally, it gives me HersheyPark vibes of all walking everywhere and I hate that.
When I was at Uni in early December, the Hogwarts Express was down for maintenance. Having to walk between USO and IoA made me realize how spoiled I have become by that transportation option.
(Sorry. Very off-topic. Please don't follow me down this rabbit hole.)
(Sorry. Very off-topic. Please don't follow me down this rabbit hole.)
As it now seems the park's two major dead ends are less likely than ever to stop being dead ends, a sky ride line directly connecting them would provide a much-needed second means of entrance/exit for both. Love it.
Endpoints at the current Elephant Run and Autobahn locations would route the line over zero guest walkways and just one high speed ride section (Verbolten's post-drop return, which presumably would get a few dozen feet of overhead cover).
Elephant Run could move to Tradewinds' current spot, Tradewinds to the empty Da Vinci's Cradle spot, Autobahn to the empty Mach Tower spot in a new circular building, and the kiddie Autobahn to ... somewhere.
If only.
A cable car or skyride connecting Festa and "Holzfaller" area is a great idea to help flow. Another would be a train station, something talked about on here but probably unlikely.
I'm gonna unload my thoughts as I don't visit the site or participate in discussion as much as I'd like anymore.
I like this better than the Drachen Spire concept; I like that it goes back in the woods out of festhaus field; and I totally welcome a proper suspended nod to BBW. When Phoenix Rising was announced I thought "If B&M recreates the arrow suspended swing it would be one of their greatest decisions". It is an obvious hole (or opportunity) in the coaster industry. Even if the swing was limited to 45 deg left and right it would be huge. Unfortunately I have doubts that there will be any swing and likely the cars will be stationary. I'm still happy and excited about this even if my pessimism is confirmed.
Despite my love for BBW, I can't help but feel like Drachen Fire's history is a bit short changed here. Drachen Fire can remain the roughest coaster you ever rode, but its ambition was tremendous at the time. Now that coaster design has improved, some of those elements could be executed perfectly by numerous manufacturers. The first inversion off the lift, and the cutback in particular are elements I'd like to see reimagined on a BGW coaster. I can't help but dream about a RMC T-Rex that was a reimagined Drachen Fire layout.
Still quite a bit of room there in festhaus field, so here's to hoping they have ambitious long term plans for the area beyond a dead end to "Holzfaller".
I'm gonna unload my thoughts as I don't visit the site or participate in discussion as much as I'd like anymore.
I like this better than the Drachen Spire concept; I like that it goes back in the woods out of festhaus field; and I totally welcome a proper suspended nod to BBW. When Phoenix Rising was announced I thought "If B&M recreates the arrow suspended swing it would be one of their greatest decisions". It is an obvious hole (or opportunity) in the coaster industry. Even if the swing was limited to 45 deg left and right it would be huge. Unfortunately I have doubts that there will be any swing and likely the cars will be stationary. I'm still happy and excited about this even if my pessimism is confirmed.
Despite my love for BBW, I can't help but feel like Drachen Fire's history is a bit short changed here. Drachen Fire can remain the roughest coaster you ever rode, but its ambition was tremendous at the time. Now that coaster design has improved, some of those elements could be executed perfectly by numerous manufacturers. The first inversion off the lift, and the cutback in particular are elements I'd like to see reimagined on a BGW coaster. I can't help but dream about a RMC T-Rex that was a reimagined Drachen Fire layout.
Still quite a bit of room there in festhaus field, so here's to hoping they have ambitious long term plans for the area beyond a dead end to "Holzfaller".
Holzfäller got another big feature in the local media—and this time with a television news spot.
www.13newsnow.com
Coaster fans are speculating about new Busch Gardens attraction in 2025
Coaster fan site "BGWFans" is predicting an inverted family coaster with two lift hills and a series of banked hills and turns.
www.13newsnow.com
Honestly if they were to build out the festhaus area to be Black forest themed with the Holzfaller in place of the dragon flier (not a bad ride for it's size) some flats and a big bear mountain type ride to finish it, I would be stoked.
Yes!! BGW really needs to look at what some other parks are doing. Looked at some POVs at Asterix yesterday and was jealous. But I think we need a Firechaser Express instead. That would be like Revenge of the Wolf, and the other one can be Little Red Riding Coaster. I'm not really a coaster person and am loving this idea with the family coasters. I guess there's still the issue of transportation though...
Riding Adventure Express at KI for the very first time last summer reminded me that a low-height-restriction family ride can be fairly kickass. It's good fun and benefits tremendously from the time and attention it got in the terrain and theming departments. Someone cared, years ago.
While I wouldn't suggest a mine train for BGW, family-oriented rides can be a great time if they get some real commitment to a little something extra at design time.
While I wouldn't suggest a mine train for BGW, family-oriented rides can be a great time if they get some real commitment to a little something extra at design time.
I don't know if I'd really call that a low height restriction - Loch Ness Monster is 48" too and I wouldn't call that a "family ride". Hey, on the topic of that, while they're doing a refurbishment of Loch Ness, here's a proposal. People seem to love Grover's Alpine Express EXCEPT for the fact that it's so darn short. Why not do a few bunny hills after the first helix and loop around the FoF? Now that would be a truly amazing kiddie coaster. It seems like something the ride is missing and would add to the idea of racing through snow-capped mountains. They're never gonna do it, but it's still really fun to think about.
Oops. You're right -- I thought I remembered AE having a lower height restriction, but it is indeed 48".
Dang.
I've mentioned before how Festhaus Park and Dollywood's Wild Wood Grove have a lot of similarities (not located in the "loop", takes a bit of walking to get there). BG could follow the foot print of Wild Wood Grove and install some flat's, indoor kids play area, a quick serve, 2 fun family friendly coasters and have a hit. Dollywood did an excellent job at theming the area and that alone makes me have doubts on what BG/SEAS would do with the area. To me, SEAS is following the Eisner era Disney of, how fast and cheap can something be built.
I thought it was Chapek era Disney that was more notorious for cheaping out (Star Wars: Galactic Starcruiser).
Chapek was bad for cutting but, Eisner was notorious for fast, cheap and easy, see Hollywood Studios and California Adventure. Esiner did run the company better than Chapek and in my opinion, better than Iger. When Disney found Universal was opening in Orlando, they wanted to have something before them and rushed to get MGM opened before Universal.
Last edited by a moderator:
The article and this thread are so thorough and helpful. However, I am not an expert at reading site plans. But I have been looking over those posted. Then started checking out pics of Festhaus Park past and present. Just really trying to develop a picture in my head.
Any members well versed in such things… please share any insight if I am close or way off base.
From ,what it appears to me ( correct me if wrong) , but, a small plaza for the coaster is planned, utilizing the old Drachen Fire photo building, while erecting lockers and something else in the center of the space. It seems like something circular?
The queue seems to be a pared down version of the serpentine path “Drachen Spire’s “ plan had. Unlike that planned queue; this seems to follow the same entrance and exit of the station as Drachen Fire’s guest flow. Other than a small marquee structure/entrance… there doesn’t seem to be any additional structures being built on the station side of tracks. That’s crummy because I remember the plans for Drachen Spire showed a few structures that you passed through on the entrance/exit.
The field is currently mostly grass and somewhat hilly? Will it be leveled? Does there appear to be any landscaping or aesthetic changes. I know this has changed in past projects. Many more plantings and trees for Pantheon and Invadr. I’ve not viewed any recent photos of the area but I believe there was some vegetation grown in around the station and I believe someone confirmed that a good number of trees are being removed on the outside of the railroad tracks .
Looking at the pictures of Drachen Fire and how beautiful that entire plot looked… beautiful
The queue.. the landscaping. The station and the maintenance building have an old world feel to them.. so half your work is done. I just pray that there is some aesthetic investment that corresponds well.
Any members well versed in such things… please share any insight if I am close or way off base.
From ,what it appears to me ( correct me if wrong) , but, a small plaza for the coaster is planned, utilizing the old Drachen Fire photo building, while erecting lockers and something else in the center of the space. It seems like something circular?
The queue seems to be a pared down version of the serpentine path “Drachen Spire’s “ plan had. Unlike that planned queue; this seems to follow the same entrance and exit of the station as Drachen Fire’s guest flow. Other than a small marquee structure/entrance… there doesn’t seem to be any additional structures being built on the station side of tracks. That’s crummy because I remember the plans for Drachen Spire showed a few structures that you passed through on the entrance/exit. The field is currently mostly grass and somewhat hilly? Will it be leveled? Does there appear to be any landscaping or aesthetic changes. I know this has changed in past projects. Many more plantings and trees for Pantheon and Invadr. I’ve not viewed any recent photos of the area but I believe there was some vegetation grown in around the station and I believe someone confirmed that a good number of trees are being removed on the outside of the railroad tracks .
Looking at the pictures of Drachen Fire and how beautiful that entire plot looked… beautiful
The queue.. the landscaping. The station and the maintenance building have an old world feel to them.. so half your work is done. I just pray that there is some aesthetic investment that corresponds well.The bulk of Festhaus Park is currently graded fairly smoothly. The site plan below has planned topographical changes noted by the bold lines. Note the occasional numbers in each one. That's the height above sea level of the land at that line. Places where lines are denser, the terrain is more extreme. Areas without lines are roughly flat.
The main things to know are that they're planning a roughly 10 foot tall triangular mound between lift 1 and the final turnaround and then the rest of the site will continue to be graded down towards the Drachen Fire Maintenance Building.
Quickly tossed together the map below to maybe help visualize that.
Last edited:
This topographical map is after construction or during foundation construction. That second to last turn (the tight overbank) is located on that hill you illillustrated, @Zachary. That hill is going to be adjusted to accommodate the overbank.
Changing the topography like that.. is it something to do with actual infrastructure for the plot or is it something aesthetic for the ride? A “mountain” perhaps or a more rugged terrain?
Did the plans indicate any landscaping or indication of what the circular structure in the plaza is?
Did the plans indicate any landscaping or indication of what the circular structure in the plaza is?
- Status