Project 2025/Holzfäller: Big Bad Wolf 2 (B&M Family Invert)

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On the topic of how will guest know where this new Rollercoaster is or for the matter of how to find it. The park is installing new signage and themed structures next to the festhaus. See pictures below.
Also the entire Rollercoaster will be viewable via the train. And also from Griffin.
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bgw enthusiasts said:
On the topic of how will guest know where this new Rollercoaster is or for the matter of how to find it. The park is installing new signage and themed structures next to the festhaus. See pictures below.
Also the entire Rollercoaster will be viewable via the train. And also from Griffin.
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I have to ask, how long have you been going to BGW? Drachen Fire had signage. It was visible from the train. And still, people didn't ride. Not just locals, tourists. Tourists who didn't know or care it was rough. They could not find the ride. By the time you get off the train, you are nowhere near Festhaus park. You have to pass directly by Invadr, DarKoaster, and Alpengeist to get there, and nearby to Griffon and Verbolten, both easily visible from the pathway. It will not be at the top of their mind, especially after the newness has worn off. Zachary alluded to this a few posts back, and I think people misinterpreted his post as this should have been a top tier thrill ride. This is a terrible place for THIS ride. It simply is not exciting enough to draw people that far back from everything else. I think a ride this scale is a great addition to the park. I also think the location is a boneheaded move.

Edit: you also misspelled "trees" in the next post. Eyesore is a completely different word.
 
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mtpelepele said:
I have to ask, how long have you been going to BGW? Drachen Fire had signage. It was visible from the train. And still, people didn't ride. Not just locals, tourists. Tourists who didn't know or care it was rough. They could not find the ride. By the time you get off the train, you are nowhere near Festhaus park. You have to pass directly by Invadr, DarKoaster, and Alpengeist to get there, and nearby to Griffon and Verbolten, both easily visible from the pathway. It will not be at the top of their mind, especially after the newness has worn off. Zachary alluded to this a few posts back, and I think people misinterpreted his post as this should have been a top tier thrill ride. This is a terrible place for THIS ride. It simply is not exciting enough to draw people that far back from everything else. I think a ride this scale is a great addition to the park. I also think the location is a boneheaded move.

Edit: you also misspelled "trees" in the next post. Eyesore is a completely different word.
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Just to counter argue for the sake of discussion. IF (a huge if) seas has an actual long term plan and this coaster is an anchor to be something more this may work, if this a repeat of DF where they drop it back there and that’s it I think your right but just maybe it can be more.
 
mtpelepele said:
I have to ask, how long have you been going to BGW? Drachen Fire had signage. It was visible from the train. And still, people didn't ride. Not just locals, tourists. Tourists who didn't know or care it was rough. They could not find the ride. By the time you get off the train, you are nowhere near Festhaus park. You have to pass directly by Invadr, DarKoaster, and Alpengeist to get there, and nearby to Griffon and Verbolten, both easily visible from the pathway. It will not be at the top of their mind, especially after the newness has worn off. Zachary alluded to this a few posts back, and I think people misinterpreted his post as this should have been a top tier thrill ride. This is a terrible place for THIS ride. It simply is not exciting enough to draw people that far back from everything else. I think a ride this scale is a great addition to the park. I also think the location is a boneheaded move.

Edit: you also misspelled "trees" in the next post. Eyesore is a completely different word.
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Not saying I don't believe you, but is there actual data or anything from Drachen Fyre to back this up? Other rides at BGW are also fairly far off the pathway, and they don't have any issues with ridership. Just look at Apollo or Le Scoot. Even KD has Grizzly which is off by itself and literally in a gift shop, and it does fine. Plus, ifI'm a random person coming to BGW for the first time, I probably already have an idea of what is here, and what I plan to ride (and even moreso today since you can go to BGWs website beforehand and see all their rides). Will a ride being far from a path really effect that very much?
 
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rollercoastercoaster said:
Not saying I don't believe you, but is there actual data or anything from Drachen Fyre to back this up? Other rides at BGW are also fairly far off the pathway, and they don't have any issues with ridership. Just look at Apollo or Le Scoot. Even KD has Grizzly which is off by itself and literally in a gift shop, and it does fine. Plus, ifI'm a random person coming to BGW for the first time, I probably already have an idea of what is here, and what I plan to ride (and even moreso today since you can go to BGWs website beforehand and see all their rides). Will a ride being far from a path really effect that very much?
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Sorry but Apollo and Le Scoot are NOT far off the pathway. Apollo is at the entrance of a busy hamlet that contains many attractions and gets a lot of foot traffic. It also has train access. Le Scoot might be a bit of a downhill walk but the ride is clearly visible from the main path when you walk across the footbridge connecting Rhinefeld and New France. It also has signage from the main path itself and, like Apollo, it has a train stop next to it as well as Skyride access.

Now, I don't have any factual data on Drachen Fire's ridership numbers but as someone who had no issue with its roughness and rode it many times each season it was open, I never saw the queue full..EVER. At the most I only waited 10 minutes to ride it. I took my cousins who were visiting from Germany to the park on July 4th weekend in 1997. With the 4th being on a Friday and this being Alpengeist's first operating season, the park was slammed packed all weekend. We visited the park on July 4th and 6th (spent the 5th in Colonial Williamsburg and shopping at the Outlets). On the days we went to the park, Alpengeist had its line backed up across the bridge into New France. BBW's line was partially spilling out onto the San Marco-Oktoberfest footbridge and Nessie also had a full queue with the line starting near the railroad track. Drachen Fire, on the other hand, was a two to three train wait at the most with night rides being a complete walk-on.

As @mtpelepele said, park visitors weren't willing to walk back there. The station is in a desolate area of the park with nothing else around. Having no other attractions, food and beverage, and restrooms in that area was detrimental to getting people back there. Even with its signage it wasn't very inviting to go back there as you first had to walk on the path that was connected to the east side of Das Festhaus which made it I feel like you were going into a forbidden backstage area.

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There has always been broad agreement that Drachen Fire was incredibly unpopular. No one will ever be able to provide data on whether or not that was the result of the coaster itself, the coaster's location, or something else entirely. That said, we can probably estimate that the location at least played a role in Drachen Fire's popularity and that the situation is bound to be far worse for a shorter, less visible, family coaster than it was for what was then the park's flagship thrill ride.
 
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Zachary said:
There has always been broad agreement that Drachen Fire was incredibly unpopular. No one will ever be able to provide data on whether or not that was the result of the coaster itself, the coaster's location, or something else entirely. That said, we can probably estimate that the location at least played a role in Drachen Fire's popularity and that the situation is bound to be far worse for a shorter, less visible, family coaster than it was for what was then the park's flagship thrill ride.
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I never rode DF but I always felt it’s issue based on the way people talk about it is the problems compounded each other. It was hard to find, then when you got there it was rough, so you didn’t want to go back, and if you knew that and someone asked what’s back there your likely to say don’t bother.

Personally I’m on the side that a better ride back there will work, especially if it gives BGW reason to put more back there. But it will take some good marketing and a good push early to get people back there.
 
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bgw enthusiasts said:
Also we could really see the park clearing out this huge overgrowth of an eyesore between the bumper cars and roto baron and the festhaus. (See picture below)
This getting removed hasn't been projected to be rebut would be a great quality improvement on this area so other may see where everything is better. View attachment 31853
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I'm sorry. Am I misunderstanding your post? Are you saying that you want the park to remove foliage and are calling it an "eyesore?" The greenery is central to what makes Busch Gardens pretty and the trees provide the shade that many other parks sadly lack.

warfelg said:
I never rode DF but I always felt it’s issue based on the way people talk about it is the problems compounded each other. It was hard to find, then when you got there it was rough, so you didn’t want to go back, and if you knew that and someone asked what’s back there your likely to say don’t bother.
Click to expand...

This exactly sums up my experience with DF. If I wasn't specifically looking for it, I forgot that it existed entirely. When my brother insisted that we ride it, I immediately regretted remembering where it was.
 
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bgw enthusiasts said:
Also we could really see the park clearing out this huge overgrowth of an eyesore between the bumper cars and roto baron and the festhaus. (See picture below)
This getting removed hasn't been projected to be rebut would be a great quality improvement on this area so other may see where everything is better. View attachment 31853
Click to expand...
I'd argue the big ride show building behind said overgrowth is more of an "eyesore" than the overgrowth itself. I would appreciate more "overgrowth" around the building when we have to pass by it on the way to this new ride.

EDIT TO ADD: Since I just saw Phoenix Rising won't swing, then this ride won't. I already said I'd be very happy with tight near-miss elements as a substitute for swinging, I just ask B&M to not make the ride whippy, because we already have Alpie bringing the whip.
 
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Nicole said:
Right. So, now that this discussion has somehow managed to meander into one person's irrational hatred of Verbolten, can we get back to a discussion of Holzfaller?
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I was not directly talking about the offending ride, the discussion was relevant to this one and in response to the guy saying to take out the patch of trees.

And I edited my post to add more discussion of this ride while you posted.
 
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The walk back to Drachen Fire gave you a great viewing spot of BBW, which this will not have. However the park also didn't have coasters seemingly tucked in everywhere so perhaps this is more consistent now. Also think of KD 2025, the "entrance" is a long way away from the station, I can't remember the exact signage for Drachen Fire but I'm pretty sure it came down to "what's that thing over there"? The ride itself you either learned from the first ride or didn't try again, even more so than other coasters at the time, ahem. Otherwise very nice coaster to have to yourselves.
 
chrisorris24 said:
I have to agree, we are still missing a top tier. Ride this here, nothing else like it ride. IMO this plot is deserving of a RMC Drachen Fire. Be it, Hyper Hybrid, or “Trex”
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TRex is dead, rmc doesn’t even offer it on their website. it’s not economically viable, and knowing rmc it will have tracking issues like JDC within 3 years. Rmc makes great rides, but their build quality is awful.
 
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