Project 2025/Holzfäller: Big Bad Wolf 2 (B&M Family Invert)

[filter]

Lol, xenophobia, sure. If BGW opened up a chicken restaurant and called it the “Cool Cluck’s Clan,” you’re saying it would it be wrong to point out what that sounds like?

That is absurd and you know it and not the same thing at all.

The German language is in use by 95 million first use speakers and not a single one would draw the conclusion you are based on the combination of words. It is racist AF and yes xenophobic. A phrase sounds "similar" again, an active language, but because the words sound scary when you don't know the definition it's the "nazis". Your eye roles don't make you right.

 

[Zachary]

The German language is in use by 95 million first use speakers and not a single one would draw the conclusion you are based on the combination of words.

You cannot substantiate this claim. You're just pulling it out of thin air.

It is racist AF and yes xenophobic. A phrase sounds "similar" again, an active language, but because the words sound scary when you don't know the definition it's the "nazis".

There are all manor of foreign language words which, though not inherently offensive in the context of the language in question, could be offensive or distasteful to English-speaking, American ears. You think it's xenophobic to advocate for avoiding the use such words in English branding...? That seems like a wild position.

 

[mcmehler]

Since we can all agree that BGW didn't choose Wölfsturm as one of the options in order to glorify Naziism, I'd be curious to know everyone's thoughts on what this particular name has to do in reference to the ride itself. Do you all think Wölfsturm has significance to the story and/or theming of the ride? I'm genuinely curious to hear some thoughts on this fleshed out other than the Nazi angle. I guess if the 'sturm' part can be translated to 'attack' that does make sense to an extent. But I think my main issue with the options is that they don't necessarily do the legacy of Big Bad Wolf justice. Maybe we can play our part here and flesh out some of the story aspects of the 3 names. Since we know it's going to be one of them we may as well 'make it make sense' as they say.

 

[mcmehler]

GeisterWölf would mean the wolf is dead and coming back for a haunt. Wölfsturm is straight up 'the wolf is back for another go'. And then Wölfsreign is basically saying the wolf never left and is here to remind the townsfolk who is boss.

 

[filter]

You cannot substantiate this claim. You're just pulling it out of thin air.

There are all manor of foreign language words which, though not inherently offensive in the context of the language in question, could be offensive or distasteful to English-speaking, American ears. You think it's xenophobic to advocate for avoiding the use such words in English branding...? That seems like a wild position.

You are correct, an all statement is an over reach. I stand by my point; drawing conclusions of intent by a foreign language sounding a certain type of way....not cool. Electric Chair and Electric Bear sound very similar yet have nothing to do with each other. Moving on.

 

[Mushroom]

That is absurd and you know it and not the same thing at all.

The German language is in use by 95 million first use speakers and not a single one would draw the conclusion you are based on the combination of words. It is racist AF and yes xenophobic. A phrase sounds "similar" again, an active language, but because the words sound scary when you don't know the definition it's the "nazis". Your eye roles don't make you right.

Actually, “Wolfssturm” and “Volkssturm” are more phonetically similar than “Cool Cluck’s Clan” and “Ku Klux Klan” are. The only difference in the pronunciation of the two German words is the soft “k” sound in the middle. Feel free to watch the video I posted of the pronunciations.

Where is the racism in pointing out the striking similarity in how words sound? (I’m a white guy whose grandparents lived in Germany for many years, by the way.)

I will maintain, however, that the bigger sin committed by BGW is that fact that they used fucking ChatGPT to generate these names.

 

[Zachary]

GeisterWölf would mean the wolf is dead and coming back for a haunt. Wölfsturm is straight up 'the wolf is back for another go'. And then Wölfsreign is basically saying the wolf never left and is here to remind the townsfolk who is boss.

Want me to confuse matters even more @mcmehler?

I haven't seen anyone point it out, but the copy on the coaster's website is INSANE.

Long ago, a wolf swept through a Bavarian town, turning townsfolk to werewolves and destroying the village. Forty years later, it’s time to honor the past during the annual Festival of the Silent Bells. The area is quiet at first, but strange noises are soon heard… footsteps and growling, then bright red eyes appear. The wolf has returned.

Where the actual fuck did werewolves come from?! Werewolves have nothing to do with The Big Bad Wolf lore we know, weren't referenced in any of the lore BGW was posting as teasers, and aren't reflected in any of the names put forward by BGW. You'd think werewolves would be sorta a big fucking deal...?

Like, how on earth does a wolf turn people into werewolves anyway? That's not how werewolf lore works, is it...? Was The Big Bad Wolf like some sort of vampiric werewolf where if he bites you, you become a werewolf? What happened to all of these werewolves? Shouldn't the town be really goddamn concerned about all these random villagers-turned-werewolves roaming around...? Lowkey seems like a much bigger problem than the singular Big Bad Wolf...?

Also, why is it the Festival of the Silent Bells? I thought they put up the bells to prevent a repeat of the (were?!)wolf incident and the whole point was to ring said bells to alert the town if The Wolf showed up...? It's not that the bells were silent before, it's that the network of bells didn't exist, right? Am I misunderstanding something?

Frankly, why even is there a festival to honor the time a few decades back that a whole bunch of friends and family were attacked and transformed into goddamn werewolves?!

I'm just so confused—wolf storms, ghost wolves, wolf royalty, a celebration of mass werewolf-ifying, a bunch of silent bells, a random horde of villager werewolves and, somehow, The Big Bad Wolf?

It starts to feel like different interns without any communication between them all each asked ChatGPT to generate German wolf lore for a coaster and they all used their own versions for their part of the story's development. Someone ended up with Canine Dracula, someone else had Sharknado, but with wolves, someone had something to do with Wolfauslassen, etc—and they all just rolled with all of them. Not super confidence inspiring, gotta say.

 

[filter]

Want me to confuse matters even more @mcmehler?

I haven't seen anyone point it out, but the copy on the coaster's website is INSANE.



Where the actual fuck did werewolves come from?! That has nothing to do with The Big Bad Wolf, any of the lore BGW was posting in teasers, or any of the names offered.

How on earth does a wolf turn people into werewolves? That's not how werewolf lore works, is it...? Was the Big Bad Wolf like some sort of vampiric werewolf where if he bites you, you become a werewolf?! What happened to all of these werewolves? Shouldn't the town be really concerned about those in addition to the singular, original Big Bad Wolf?

Also, why is it the Festival of the Silent Bells? I thought they rang the bells...? The bells seem to make noise. Why even is there a festival to honor the time a few decades back that a whole bunch of friends and family became turned into werewolves?

When I first read the werewolf thing I immediately thought "Oh God, did they get ChatGPT to write this?" The random, inexplicable, unexplained introduction of werewolves into all of this just makes zero sense and then is never referenced again.

I caught the hint of werewolf talk in the first teaser video and thought it was out of place. "said to transform men into monsters with a single bite"

 

[halfabee]

The bitey-transformy bits are probably references to the classic 1984 commercial.

It cribbed quite a lot from the Return of the Jedi speeder chase and the Thriller video, both of which were massive in popular culture at the time. But in the originality column, it strongly implied the existence of what might have been the true OG vampire-werewolf. Or something. Like most stuff in the 1980s, nobody really questioned it.

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On the other hand:

drawing conclusions of intent by a foreign language sounding a certain type of way

What intent?

 

[warfelg]

Circling back to those commercials and @horsesboy ’s post made me think of this. I really like the story as to why the town moved. I want to give kudos to a good story here if they killed the wolf, moved the town to be safe, have forgotten the story, and now it’s back.

In fact I’ve head cannoned this already for all of Oktoberfest: it’s set where Ludwig castle was, and until yours of his castle started the curse of the big bad wolf was from his castle. After the wolf was banished he materialized to new tourism in the area. While the townspeople remained hidden the elders started a car tour company taking people through the ruins of the old town to keep an eye for the surviving wolf. But after Ludwig’s ghost was banished during one faithful tour, freak weather evens started happening leading to the revival of the wolf.

Also. Wolfstrum with DarKastle themed to a storm? That makes that name lame and bad with history context added.

 

[Bring Back Questor 87]

Circling back to those commercials and @horsesboy ’s post made me think of this. I really like the story as to why the town moved. I want to give kudos to a good story here if they killed the wolf, moved the town to be safe, have forgotten the story, and now it’s back.

In fact I’ve head cannoned this already for all of Oktoberfest: it’s set where Ludwig castle was, and until yours of his castle started the curse of the big bad wolf was from his castle. After the wolf was banished he materialized to new tourism in the area. While the townspeople remained hidden the elders started a car tour company taking people through the ruins of the old town to keep an eye for the surviving wolf. But after Ludwig’s ghost was banished during one faithful tour, freak weather evens started happening leading to the revival of the wolf.

Also. Wolfstrum with DarKastle themed to a storm? That makes that name lame and bad with history context added.

Not to mention Verbolten and its storms...lol

And for those thinking parks like BGW won't have two "Geists" - look no further than Carowinds with its Strike/Striker...

 

[mcmehler]

Want me to confuse matters even more @mcmehler?

I haven't seen anyone point it out, but the copy on the coaster's website is INSANE.



Where the actual fuck did werewolves come from?! Werewolves have nothing to do with The Big Bad Wolf lore we know, weren't referenced in any of the lore BGW was posting as teasers, and aren't reflected in any of the names put forward by BGW. You'd think werewolves would be sorta a big fucking deal...?

Like, how on earth does a wolf turn people into werewolves anyway? That's not how werewolf lore works, is it...? Was The Big Bad Wolf like some sort of vampiric werewolf where if he bites you, you become a werewolf? What happened to all of these werewolves? Shouldn't the town be really goddamn concerned about all these random villagers-turned-werewolves roaming around...? Lowkey seems like a much bigger problem than the singular Big Bad Wolf...?

Also, why is it the Festival of the Silent Bells? I thought they put up the bells to prevent a repeat of the (were?!)wolf incident and the whole point was to ring said bells to alert the town if The Wolf showed up...? It's not that the bells were silent before, it's that the network of bells didn't exist, right? Am I misunderstanding something?

Frankly, why even is there a festival to honor the time a few decades back that a whole bunch of friends and family were attacked and transformed into goddamn werewolves?!

I'm just so confused—wolf storms, ghost wolves, wolf royalty, a celebration of mass werewolf-ifying, a bunch of silent bells, a random horde of villager werewolves and, somehow, The Big Bad Wolf?

It starts to feel like different interns asked ChatGPT to generate German wolf lore for a coaster over and over again and just said "Yes, we'll use that too!" each and every time.

Circling back to those commercials and @horsesboy ’s post made me think of this. I really like the story as to why the town moved. I want to give kudos to a good story here if they killed the wolf, moved the town to be safe, have forgotten the story, and now it’s back.

In fact I’ve head cannoned this already for all of Oktoberfest: it’s set where Ludwig castle was, and until yours of his castle started the curse of the big bad wolf was from his castle. After the wolf was banished he materialized to new tourism in the area. While the townspeople remained hidden the elders started a car tour company taking people through the ruins of the old town to keep an eye for the surviving wolf. But after Ludwig’s ghost was banished during one faithful tour, freak weather evens started happening leading to the revival of the wolf.

Also. Wolfstrum with DarKastle themed to a storm? That makes that name lame and bad with history context added.

Love the way you connected the lore for all the rides. But yes agree, the storm thing is a bit overkill

 

[Zachary]

Not to mention Verbolten and its storms...lol

It's worse.

BGW's German hamlets CURRENTLY feature three coasters with storm themes, three coasters with ghost/spirit themes, and two coasters with wolf themes.

2025 will add #3 to the wolf themes column and, depending on the direction, could apparently add #4 to the storms and/or spirits columns.

Even WölfsReign isn't totally immune from the duplicative vibes since Ludwig is a wolf-spirit-king-guy who reigned over his kingdom right on the otherside of Oktoberfest.

The extent of the duplicative themes is, frankly, bonkers.

 

[warfelg]

The extent of the duplicative themes is, frankly, bonkers.

But makes for the fun headcannon that everything is tied to Ludwig.

 

[Le Moose]

three coasters with storm themes, three coasters with ghost/spirit themes, and two coasters with wolf themes.

Verbolten be like:
Wolf
Spirit
Storm

 

[Mushroom]

It's worse.

BGW's German hamlets CURRENTLY feature three coasters with storm themes, three coasters with ghost/spirit themes, and two coasters with wolf themes.

2025 will add #3 to the wolf themes column and, depending on the direction, could apparently add #4 to the storms and/or spirits columns.

Even WölfsReign isn't totally immune from the duplicative vibes since Ludwig is a wolf-spirit-king-guy who reigned over his kingdom right on the otherside of Oktoberfest.

The extent of the duplicative themes is, frankly, bonkers.

Tack on the fact that Tempesto literally means “storm” and the park is really going crazy with doubling down on its themes.

 

[Zachary]

Verbolten be like:
Wolf
Spirit
Storm

And DarKoaster! Both real overachievers.

 

[Le Moose]

And DarKoaster! Both real overachievers.

Oh!!!! That’s right!!!!

 

[Nicole]

Tack on the fact that Tempesto literally means “storm” and the park is really going crazy with doubling down on its themes.

I thought we were focusing on coasters.

 

[lyingtorobots]

Verbolten be like:
Wolf
Spirit
Storm

“By your powers combined, I am…”