Project 2025/Holzfäller: Big Bad Wolf 2 (B&M Family Invert)

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Maybe they’ll come to their senses and it’ll be changed in the poll to “Wolf Attack” instead of “Wolf Storm”, unless they really don’t want people to pick that option. It still has my vote, but it’s dumb they opted for the translation with the least amount of relevance when a 3 second google search shows the word can be translated to “attack”.
 
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Sad that in 2024 we have to rabbit hole the potential names of a family roller coaster to examine the degree to which it could even remotely offend anyone's sensibilities on/off this forum. Not sure if that's a bad reflection of society or the park's inability to choose good options - likely both.

End of the day, park has work to do just to make sure people care. Buzz around people being stabbed at the park after dark is higher than the buzz of a new coaster.

^Volumes spoken...
 
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Bring Back Questor 87 said:
Buzz around people being stabbed at the park after dark is higher than the buzz of a new coaster.
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I was just thinking about this last night.

I remember posting about how strange it was that BGW would wait to announce a coaster until Howl-O-Scream a few weeks back, but I was thinking it was weird due to such a late announcement missing the pre-HOS 2025 pass sale season, risking overshadowing Howl-O-Scream announcements, the conflation of multiple BGW announcements in quick succession (HOS 2024, BGW 2025, WCUSA 2025 (?), CMT 2024), and BGW news exhaustion lessening its reach (this is always a huge news season for BGW).

I certainly didn't foresee the risk of "stabbing at BGW overshadows coaster announcement," but perhaps I should have given the rapidly increasing pace of such reporting in recent years during Howl-O-Scream.

Not good for BGW, and certainly not good for BGW's 2025 coaster.
 
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RE: Sturm translation

Storm is definitely a valid translation, however, in this usage I would say "charge!" is probably more accurate.

Not super happy with any of the options but it seems to me that they might have emphasized names that are easily pronounceable for young Americans. Giesterwolf is the only one that isn't a "Germanized" mashup of two English words. Something like "Holzfaller" doesn't really explain what it is without knowing German. Then again, Verbolten doesn't actually mean anything.
 
What I'm trying to say is that aside from the (no offense, chronically) online forum users, almost nobody genuinely associates that with Nazis. Most people just think of it as "oh cool german name for wolf and a storm sorta tying into the darkoaster story I guess". That's what the GP thinks. It's just a non-issue. I don't see the problem when 99.8% of people don't associate a name with Nazis. That's like saying WDW should change it's name to remove Walt Disney because a few chronically online people think that Walt was antisemetic, or changing the name of Flight Force at DLP because Force has military connotations. It's just not a problem that almost anybody thinks about
 
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@coasters_bgw said:
What I'm trying to say is that aside from the (no offense, chronically) online forum users, almost nobody genuinely associates that with Nazis. Most people just think of it as "oh cool german name for wolf and a storm sorta tying into the darkoaster story I guess". That's what the GP thinks. It's just a non-issue. I don't see the problem when 99.8% of people don't associate a name with Nazis. That's like saying WDW should change it's name to remove Walt Disney because a few chronically online people think that Walt was antisemetic, or changing the name of Flight Force at DLP because Force has military connotations. It's just not a problem that almost anybody thinks about
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View attachment RPReplay_Final1726497060.mov

Turn sound on. You don’t have to be “chronically online” to realize that the pronunciation of the name sounds almost exactly like the name of a very well known Nazi militia. Objectively. Being historically literate isn’t the same as being “chronically online.”
 
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@coasters_bgw said:
What I'm trying to say is that aside from the (no offense, chronically) online forum users, almost nobody genuinely associates that with Nazis.
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@coasters_bgw said:
That's what the GP thinks. It's just a non-issue. I don't see the problem when 99.8% of people don't associate a name with Nazis.
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You simply do not have any data with which to back these claims. You have no idea what the actual percentage of people who hear "WölfSturm" and think "Nazi-adjacent" is—whether your theoretical n is "chronically online forum users" or "the GP."

I have been up front about not knowing the percentage. My anecdotal experience thus far tells me that it's probably not a completely insignificant number, but I would happily throw that anecdotal experience out the window in an instant if actual market research was completed that showed that I just happen to know the handful of people who instantly, independently made that association.

The fact of the matter though is that none of us will ever have that data because even the park themselves isn't conducting the necessary research to obtain it.

Again I'll ask:
Zachary said:
We, of course, do not have market research data to back up what percentage of the population hears "Wölfsturm" and thinks "Nazis," but surely, surely you can concede that if any measurable amount of the population does, it shouldn't be on BGW's list of finalists, no?
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Zachary said:
You simply do not have any data with which to back these claims. You have no idea what the actual percentage of people who hear "WölfSturm" and think "Nazi-adjacent" is—whether your theoretical n is "chronically online forum users" or "the GP."

I have been up front about not knowing the percentage. My anecdotal experience thus far tells me that it's probably not a completely insignificant number, but I would happily throw that anecdotal experience out the window in an instant if actual market research was completed that showed that I just happen to know the handful of people who instantly make that association.

The fact of the matter though is that none of us will ever have that data because even the park themselves isn't conducting the necessary research to obtain it.

Again I'll ask:
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Fine, good point. It's a guess on the statistics. However, among members of my family, the Jewish community, and other members of the GP, not a single one out of the maybe 50 I talked to associated WolfStörm with Nazis.
 
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Still think some form of Wolf Hunt fits thematically and would be easier to say and would look good on a signpost. I had suggested a while back."Wolfsjäger" but the wolf and hunt could be worked/rephrased to capture the wolf hunting the villagers or the villagers hunting the wolf.
 
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@coasters_bgw said:
Fine, good point. It's a guess on the statistics. However, among members of my family, the Jewish community, and other members of the GP, not a single one out of the maybe 50 I talked to associated WolfStörm with Nazis.
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Yep, that's fine! We fly in different circles, we know different people, our anecdotal experiences with responses to the "What do you think of when you hear WölfSturm?" inquiry will be very different. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Just as a hypothetical, say just a few of the 50 people you spoke with heard "WölfSturm" out of context and said "That sounds like a Nazi military operation" or "Isn't that a Nazi militia?" You would agree that such a finding means it's a poor name choice, right?

That's the bridge I'm trying to build here. None of us can actually, reasonably know just how prevalent the association is, but surely we can all agree that IF a measurable percentage of people are making the association, it's a problem, right?
 
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lyingtorobots said:
Has anyone communicated w/BGW about this? It’d be interesting to see what they have to say…
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I don't know if they even thought of the naming issue. Although I think if they found out they would probably remove that choice from the ballot entirely.
 
I don't think BGW would or should remove it from the poll. They made no commitment to abide by the most popular response to the poll, the poll isn't public, and, for all we know, it could, legitimately, already be meaningless.

If BGW decides WölfSturm is undesirable, they will likely (and should) just pick one of the other names.

Also, this thread is read by BGW marketing people regularly. They're aware of this conversation.

There's a nonzero chance that the entire intention of this poll is to crowdsource the focus-grouping of these options and the discussions that result online around each of them will be far more determinative of the final name than the poll itself.

If that's the strategy, I'm not opposed, but damn do I wish there was a "suggest a different name" option in there—if only so BGW could decide to go with a different option in the case that the majority of people dislike all of the options put forward (which does certainly seem to be the case with this trio).
 
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Mushroom said:
View attachment 34450

Turn sound on. You don’t have to be “chronically online” to realize that the pronunciation of the name sounds almost exactly like the name of a very well known Nazi militia. Objectively. Being historically literate isn’t the same as being “chronically online.”
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Some good old Xenophobia here "these words that have distinctly different meanings but sound similar" and therefore "Nazis" .... Akin to hearing Arabic not knowing what the words mean and thinking terrorist.
 
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filter said:
Some good old Xenophobia here "these words that have distinctly different meanings but sound similar" and therefore "Nazis" .... Akin to hearing Arabic not knowing what the words mean and thinking terrorist.
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Lol, xenophobia, sure. If BGW opened up a chicken restaurant and called it the “Cool Cluck’s Clan,” you’re saying it would it be wrong to point out what that sounds like?
 
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