Fur Dozy said:
Idk bout that. Das Festhaus is 23,800 square feet. And it seems to be larger than DarKastle on the map.
Project 2012
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Idk bout that. Das Festhaus is 23,800 square feet. And it seems to be larger than DarKastle on the map.
Well I might be wrong but when they say the Festhaus is 23,800 sq ft. couldn't just mean the main dining hall and not the kitchen and EBA? and whos to say the building will be a massive square? It could be all shapes and sizes just wide enough for the coaster.
The whole kitchen and food lines are about half the size of the dining hall. I know this from a tour.
That is just for the eating area I think. Its seems to be about 100x230ish on scaled maps. I almost said to use that as an idea of what we'll be getting. Also, square feet are square feet. This building may have a large or small perimeter but it won't be bigger or smaller. Based on the shape. Plus I can garantee that it will use the space it has indoors to the last inch. Just look at other indoor coasters.
Another thing to mention is that ride such as fight of fear or rock n roller coaster have very small footprints.
Another thing to mention is that ride such as fight of fear or rock n roller coaster have very small footprints.
It's always easier to build a regular, square building than a cluster of form-fitting buildings. I was basing my design off of the size of the Festhaus. I actually think what I drew down for the building is a little too big. I purposefully did this to show its approximate location. What going to be cool about this building is its going to be built into the valley. I don't think the roof line of the building will be any higher than 15ft over the bumper cars roof. I don't think it will sit way high up like that of Darkastle.
I designed the outside layout to be a minimal so not to over exaggerate its look.
I designed the outside layout to be a minimal so not to over exaggerate its look.
Alright,
I've been reading the past few pages and kind of formulating my opinions on it all, so here goes.
Disclaimer: In the Fall I'm going to start studying at Virginia Tech to get my architecture degree, and my goal is to work for the Entertainment or Design departments at the park, so my opinions are going to be a little bit conservative.
Let's get modernization out of the way:
It's going to happen no matter what. The essence of the park will always be there, but times WILL ALWAYS change. Believe me, I kind of miss the old park. I've had a season pass since I was four. I grew up at the park, but that doesn't restrict me from embracing change. I mean come on, look at the Magic Kingdom. The Disney Corporation changes for NO ONE, yet public opinion has altered their plans for Fantasyland, what, five times so far? Times are changing, and if the public is straying from the Olde World feel, then the park will answer that. We, as fans of the park, cannot live under the mentality that Busch Gardens Williamsburg was made for us, and that's it. We forget about the families who come to Virginia and visit the park once. They need to be impressed. We have grown up with the park, so we have a comparison to carry out, but for the general public, change, even drastic, is usually welcome. Europe in the Air is a prime example of this. We see it as a severe diversion from the norm of the park: heavily themed attractions that add a flow to the park. Theming wise, yes, Europe in the Air is a major differentiation in the park, but what do the general public think?? They're eating it up. All I've heard from non-fanboys and girls is it's a brilliant attraction that expands horizons for many people who will never get the opportunity to travel abroad. In all honesty, I kind of think it was a simple necessity to add it eventually. It's a give-and-take. Yes, it is visually and aesthetically lacking, but that section of the park hadn't been updated with a revisioned ride in how long? Nine years. One ride should not determine how you see a park. That leads into another example of modernization: IllumiNights. Yes, those "Puking Pastels" were rather vibrant, but in all honesty, from a marketing perspective, it serves a purpose. Those colors, not only in Ireland, but also in Oktoberfest, San Marco, and Aquitaine, I believe were used to show a contrast. Using the exact same color palate for the summer shows would emphasize nothing. 2010 was all about adding something different, a new flair perhaps, and the color, while rather interesting, did emphasize something different, new shows and experiences. The colors were retired when IllumiNights closed for the season, and the conformity of the hamlets has returned. How is that modernization? The essence of the park remained, and colors and showy signs were taken down. Yes, some of the themes were not "vintage" so to say, i.e. late 1700's Europe, but using, for example, the 1900 World's Fair in Paris was an excellent springboard into a rather quaint, yet memorable experience. I could completely understand your apprehension say if, CoCo Chanel came walking down the pathway, but the idea of an Olde Country, SEPARATE from us, was still preserved. Another example is Forest of Fun. It wasn't built to degrade the theming of the park, in fact, I think it added an even more cohesive flow to the park. It is set off, and does not hinder or infringe upon the theming of any other hamlets. Heck, give it another three or four years and the trees will grow taller, finally creating a forest feel, and creating a small independent world for the kids, without disturbing the adults with the broccoli trees and purple coaster track. Finally, the renovation of Germany has come under some heavy fire lately. From the artist’s depiction, I’m quite excited. In my eyes, Germany has the least “village” feel to it. This renovation will create a hamlet, not a midway with little character that I believe it is now. What some of us see as modernization, is simply the park pleasing all age demographics, and after all, that's their job. You guys fear the encroaching of modernism and contemporary experiences, but, quite frankly, I can't find them.
Next, Project 2012 should be addressed. I do believe the survey is odd. The names do not sound very pleasing, yet could we be jumping to conclusions? A name DOES NOT doom a ride, and to believe that is the epitome of 2D thinking. This ride could be the most thrilling, enjoyable, and fun experience on this earth, yet we’re killing it before the first footer has been poured. Quite frankly I do believe that this letter is to be trusted. I can’t really understand the notion of sending out a survey to loyal patrons and lying to their faces. Could things change, absolutely, but I do believe the basis of the names and description will endure. The last thing I want to address concerning 2012 is management. The parent company has changed; the designers and local park departments have not. The people who work in the administrative building are looking out for the park goers. They serve the customer first, and I believe we are starting to forget that, and lose faith in them.
In seven months I’m going to leave for college, but I’ll still call Busch Gardens my home park, and I’ll do it proudly. None of this is going to effect how I see my park. It’s where I grew up, it’s where I want my kids to grow up. I’m not going to give up on the park for a few alterations, and I really hope you guys don’t either.
-Sky
I've been reading the past few pages and kind of formulating my opinions on it all, so here goes.
Disclaimer: In the Fall I'm going to start studying at Virginia Tech to get my architecture degree, and my goal is to work for the Entertainment or Design departments at the park, so my opinions are going to be a little bit conservative.
Let's get modernization out of the way:
It's going to happen no matter what. The essence of the park will always be there, but times WILL ALWAYS change. Believe me, I kind of miss the old park. I've had a season pass since I was four. I grew up at the park, but that doesn't restrict me from embracing change. I mean come on, look at the Magic Kingdom. The Disney Corporation changes for NO ONE, yet public opinion has altered their plans for Fantasyland, what, five times so far? Times are changing, and if the public is straying from the Olde World feel, then the park will answer that. We, as fans of the park, cannot live under the mentality that Busch Gardens Williamsburg was made for us, and that's it. We forget about the families who come to Virginia and visit the park once. They need to be impressed. We have grown up with the park, so we have a comparison to carry out, but for the general public, change, even drastic, is usually welcome. Europe in the Air is a prime example of this. We see it as a severe diversion from the norm of the park: heavily themed attractions that add a flow to the park. Theming wise, yes, Europe in the Air is a major differentiation in the park, but what do the general public think?? They're eating it up. All I've heard from non-fanboys and girls is it's a brilliant attraction that expands horizons for many people who will never get the opportunity to travel abroad. In all honesty, I kind of think it was a simple necessity to add it eventually. It's a give-and-take. Yes, it is visually and aesthetically lacking, but that section of the park hadn't been updated with a revisioned ride in how long? Nine years. One ride should not determine how you see a park. That leads into another example of modernization: IllumiNights. Yes, those "Puking Pastels" were rather vibrant, but in all honesty, from a marketing perspective, it serves a purpose. Those colors, not only in Ireland, but also in Oktoberfest, San Marco, and Aquitaine, I believe were used to show a contrast. Using the exact same color palate for the summer shows would emphasize nothing. 2010 was all about adding something different, a new flair perhaps, and the color, while rather interesting, did emphasize something different, new shows and experiences. The colors were retired when IllumiNights closed for the season, and the conformity of the hamlets has returned. How is that modernization? The essence of the park remained, and colors and showy signs were taken down. Yes, some of the themes were not "vintage" so to say, i.e. late 1700's Europe, but using, for example, the 1900 World's Fair in Paris was an excellent springboard into a rather quaint, yet memorable experience. I could completely understand your apprehension say if, CoCo Chanel came walking down the pathway, but the idea of an Olde Country, SEPARATE from us, was still preserved. Another example is Forest of Fun. It wasn't built to degrade the theming of the park, in fact, I think it added an even more cohesive flow to the park. It is set off, and does not hinder or infringe upon the theming of any other hamlets. Heck, give it another three or four years and the trees will grow taller, finally creating a forest feel, and creating a small independent world for the kids, without disturbing the adults with the broccoli trees and purple coaster track. Finally, the renovation of Germany has come under some heavy fire lately. From the artist’s depiction, I’m quite excited. In my eyes, Germany has the least “village” feel to it. This renovation will create a hamlet, not a midway with little character that I believe it is now. What some of us see as modernization, is simply the park pleasing all age demographics, and after all, that's their job. You guys fear the encroaching of modernism and contemporary experiences, but, quite frankly, I can't find them.
Next, Project 2012 should be addressed. I do believe the survey is odd. The names do not sound very pleasing, yet could we be jumping to conclusions? A name DOES NOT doom a ride, and to believe that is the epitome of 2D thinking. This ride could be the most thrilling, enjoyable, and fun experience on this earth, yet we’re killing it before the first footer has been poured. Quite frankly I do believe that this letter is to be trusted. I can’t really understand the notion of sending out a survey to loyal patrons and lying to their faces. Could things change, absolutely, but I do believe the basis of the names and description will endure. The last thing I want to address concerning 2012 is management. The parent company has changed; the designers and local park departments have not. The people who work in the administrative building are looking out for the park goers. They serve the customer first, and I believe we are starting to forget that, and lose faith in them.
In seven months I’m going to leave for college, but I’ll still call Busch Gardens my home park, and I’ll do it proudly. None of this is going to effect how I see my park. It’s where I grew up, it’s where I want my kids to grow up. I’m not going to give up on the park for a few alterations, and I really hope you guys don’t either.
-Sky
Excellnt post sky. I personally want the park to somewat modernize. And as far as the 2012 coaster I think we need to just wait and see. As long as it is a good coaster the name really doesnt matter all that much as long as it somewat makes sense.
Sky, know what I am hoping? That the survey once completed by everyone shows results that result in "rethinking" the name and concept. I shall hold onto this hope; I'll hold on as tight as a child clutching their blanket in a thunderstorm until the final say happens.
Although, has anyone noticed how the change to more modern, and may I say, lackluster names have been since Blackstone took over? I am beginning to wonder if perhaps our talented marketing folks at BGW really have control over the naming of rides. My reasoning for this thought is that recently both BGW and Tampa have had changes in the names to those that lack a certain uniqueness.
I for one, wonder how on Earth one could create merchandise for a new ride named Uber Bahn or Revenge of the Black Forest. The ride will obviously be accessible to younger riders; something that I am thrilled with BGW for doing! However, the first thing I wanted when I rode Loch Ness, my first roller-coaster, was a stuffed toy and T-shirt. Hmmm... what would be the stuffed toy for the new coaster? A Tree? A Car? How could a tee shirt with Revenge of the Black Forest sell to children and adults?
I am still baffled by Cheeta Hunt in Tampa. I wonder if perhaps they worried if Cheetaka and Sheikra sounded too similar; but if so, what about the coaster Cheetah Chase? So now there is a Cheetah Chase AND Cheetah Hunt. Go figure. Also, I always thought that Cheetah Hunt sounded like a hunter was out on the safari trying to bag a Cheetah for sport.
Although, has anyone noticed how the change to more modern, and may I say, lackluster names have been since Blackstone took over? I am beginning to wonder if perhaps our talented marketing folks at BGW really have control over the naming of rides. My reasoning for this thought is that recently both BGW and Tampa have had changes in the names to those that lack a certain uniqueness.
I for one, wonder how on Earth one could create merchandise for a new ride named Uber Bahn or Revenge of the Black Forest. The ride will obviously be accessible to younger riders; something that I am thrilled with BGW for doing! However, the first thing I wanted when I rode Loch Ness, my first roller-coaster, was a stuffed toy and T-shirt. Hmmm... what would be the stuffed toy for the new coaster? A Tree? A Car? How could a tee shirt with Revenge of the Black Forest sell to children and adults?
I am still baffled by Cheeta Hunt in Tampa. I wonder if perhaps they worried if Cheetaka and Sheikra sounded too similar; but if so, what about the coaster Cheetah Chase? So now there is a Cheetah Chase AND Cheetah Hunt. Go figure. Also, I always thought that Cheetah Hunt sounded like a hunter was out on the safari trying to bag a Cheetah for sport.
First off, great post Sky. I personally don't have all that big of a problem with Forest of Fun because they did a good job keeping it away from everything else as you said; however, I do have a problem with them plastering Elmo's face onto the Globe Theater. When you walk into the park, your first impression is England. In my opinion England is one of the best (and most overlooked) countries in the park. It doesn't have a single ride, but it has the feeling that I think Busch Gardens has always been about. It takes you to a different place and time that anyone who visits the park has ever experienced. When you see Elmo's face up on the Globe Theater it completely destroys that feeling.
You said that Europe in the Air (another terrible name by the way) was a hit with the general public. I have to disagree. Everyone I know (most all of whom don't even know that there is a such thing as a theme park enthusiast) absolutely hate the ride. Furthermore I have a tenancy of listening in on the conversations of members of the general public in an attempt to understand what they like, what the don't like, etc. You know what one of the number one gripes I hear is? Europe in the Air. In fact, one time I heard one family talking amongst themselves about how they should go to EitA next and another person overheard them and told them to skip it because it was a "bad ride". On yet another occasion a couple asked me if there were any must see attractions that they should ride before the park closed. I listed out the normals and then they asked about EitA. Before I had a chance to answer a ride op broke in and said to skip it because it was "Us trying to be like Disney and failing".
I don't have all that much of a problem with Illuminights either; I only commented on it because someone else brought it up.
That's all I have time for right now. Maybe I'll continue tomorrow.
I couldn't disagree with this statement more. Names can make or break a ride. Do you think DarKastle would get the crowds it does if it was called "Frozen Castle Carriage Ride"? I doubt it. What about the outcry over Cheetah Hunt? Go on BGT's Facebook page and look at the comments that were made in the week or so after the announcement. BGT's fans and the general public both disliked the name equally and with good reason. The name does matter and in a very big way.
You said that Europe in the Air (another terrible name by the way) was a hit with the general public. I have to disagree. Everyone I know (most all of whom don't even know that there is a such thing as a theme park enthusiast) absolutely hate the ride. Furthermore I have a tenancy of listening in on the conversations of members of the general public in an attempt to understand what they like, what the don't like, etc. You know what one of the number one gripes I hear is? Europe in the Air. In fact, one time I heard one family talking amongst themselves about how they should go to EitA next and another person overheard them and told them to skip it because it was a "bad ride". On yet another occasion a couple asked me if there were any must see attractions that they should ride before the park closed. I listed out the normals and then they asked about EitA. Before I had a chance to answer a ride op broke in and said to skip it because it was "Us trying to be like Disney and failing".
I don't have all that much of a problem with Illuminights either; I only commented on it because someone else brought it up.
That's all I have time for right now. Maybe I'll continue tomorrow.
Austin said:
I couldn't disagree with this statement more. Names can make or break a ride. Do you think DarKastle would get the crowds it does if it was called "Frozen Castle Carriage Ride"? I doubt it. What about the outcry over Cheetah Hunt? Go on BGT's Facebook page and look at the comments that were made in the week or so after the announcement. BGT's fans and the general public both disliked the name equally and with good reason. The name does matter and in a very big way.
@swift...i get wat youre saying. Wat I mean is if a person likes the ride just bcuz the name is bad doesnt mean they wont ride it again. I guess to me its not a huge deal.
I do think a name can change a ride. For one, a name sets the tone for the ride, like a good title for a paper. I have heard it said before, and I agree with the statement, that the name Diamondback for the KI hyper was a poor choice as it induced thoughts of a rough wooden ride and not the smooth-as-glass B&M ride it delivers. Apollo's Chariot prepares you for the soaring ride you will subsequently encounter, and Alpengeist tells the rider that they will be embarking on a crazy and frightening journey. At any good theme park, particularly Busch Gardens, the name reveals major facets of the ride. That is why I am disappointed by the four choices, except Verbolten, which would still be the lamest name in the park. Uber Bahn is flat ridiculous to me. Translated, it reads "Super Train," and even Six Flags can come with a better name than that. Just because it's in German doesn't mean it's cool. Might as well call it "Crazy Train" and give it an Ozzy Osbourne theme. 
I understand that with a management change, certain transformations in the park are to be expected. But, for the most part, many have been pretty lackluster compared to what BG fans have come to expect. Maybe we've just been spoiled by the world's best theme park, but I think that is why many people on these boards have expressed their concern to the direction of the park. Project 2012 is a major indicator of the direction the park is heading, and fans want to make sure their voices are being heard.
Technically, seeing as how some BBW footers are being used, the first footers were poured a long time ago.
I understand that with a management change, certain transformations in the park are to be expected. But, for the most part, many have been pretty lackluster compared to what BG fans have come to expect. Maybe we've just been spoiled by the world's best theme park, but I think that is why many people on these boards have expressed their concern to the direction of the park. Project 2012 is a major indicator of the direction the park is heading, and fans want to make sure their voices are being heard.
Technically, seeing as how some BBW footers are being used, the first footers were poured a long time ago.
Franco said:Uber Bahn is flat ridiculous to me. Translated, it reads "Super Train," and even Six Flags can come with a better name than that. Just because it's in German doesn't mean it's cool. Might as well call it "Crazy Train" and give it an Ozzy Osbourne theme.
Why does everyone say that? Uber means “super” in english. We stole that from German. In German, it means "about" unless its “über” in which case it means "over”. Also, Bahn technically translates as “train”, but they use it for a lot of things other than train. Even then, it would literally be “Over Train”. But just like Mäch isn’t actually German, I wouldn’t be surprised if they went with something that just sounds good to Americans.
^Uber and über both mean over, above, up, etc., but bahn can mean train, although it also means track, path, lane, in some cases it even means street car. Also Busch sometimes will change the name slightly to make it easier for non German speakers to say, but with ten years of German classes and google translater (which is one of the worst translaters for more than one work, so if you are trying to look up something type in single words) I cant find anything close to "uber" that means super.
From my research and (mostly) useless knowledge of Latin, I have found that uber in German is a combination of the Latin and Greek for super. I know that uber has become a ridiculous slang suffix in English, but "super" is the most common use of uber as a compound word. From my uber-Googling (sorry, I can't resist irony), I have found that uber is generally used as words like above and over in certain forms. Therefore, I hold fast to my claim of uber translating to super. And no matter what you pair with uber, Super Train, Super Track, Super Path, Super Lane, and Super Streetcar are all horrible coaster monikers.
I feel really stupid for posting the last thing I posted, because after thinking about it for a bit Uber does mean super in a compound like Franco said if you go to a translater (even Googles sucky translater will do this) and go from English to German and type in "superman" it will come out as "ubermensch", "uber" meaning super. If you typer in "autobahn" it will say "Highway" and if you scroll down there will be other ways of saying it, #6 is "superhighway".
I might have confused you...... I confused myself which is why I am stopping, I could write alot more haha
I might have confused you...... I confused myself which is why I am stopping, I could write alot more haha
michaelcollier1 said:
Except über generally means about. Ex. "Wir sprechen über Achterbahnen." So not always over, above, etc. versus “Die Zeitung steht uber das Buch.” which is obviously over, above, etc.
“Ubermensch” is a concept that basically refers to a person that is above the rest of society. Thats where it comes from, not necessarily “Superman”. Thats really the only time uber comes close to super.
And "Mäch" is a bit more than a slight name change... they changed an english word to slightly sound german by adding an umlaut.
Sorry for being off topic.
CoasterChris said:
I know that, I was saying type in "superman" and it will come up with "uber", it was the closest thing I could find to "uber" meaning super. Also with the slight changing of the name I was more referring to "Verbolten" which other people were thinking they changed from "Verboten" which means banned, than the Mäch Tower. "Speed" in German is "Geschwindigkeit", but "Geschwindigkeit Tower" does not sound good, and "mach" in German basicly means "do" or "make", you would say "Ich mache es" (adding the "e" because of verb endings) that does not mean "I speed it" it means "I do it," I have no clue where Busch came up for "Mach" meaning "Speed"
Also with the "Verbolten" thing, "verboten" means banned, what they could have done with that is "bolt" is like going fast. They could have changed "Verboten" to "Verbolten" just so they could add the "bolt"
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