Future Park Plans

[netdvn]

Looking at the initial post, is the park really buying that many major dark rides in the coming years? Seems kinda unlikely after the park just received two major capital investments and an area upgrade.

Throw the possibility of a third phase of Oktoberfest expansion and the resort rumor and the chances seem less likely to happen.

 

[Gavin]

Looking at the initial post, is the park really buying that many major dark rides in the coming years? Seems kinda unlikely after the park just received two major capital investments and an area upgrade.

Throw the possibility of a third phase of Oktoberfest expansion and the resort rumor and the chances seem less likely to happen.

Tell that to SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment's sugar daddy...

 

[Parkgoer]

Tell that to Blackstone, sugar daddy...

Fixed. People seem to forget the size of Blackstone's portfolio and just how much money they have. They clearly want to up the status of all of their parks, hence all the of the new upgrades. Case in point, BGW is in the best hands financially. They have yet to lose any luster that the parks have and are only making moves to better them.

 

[Party Rocker]

blackstone is huge, and i said it before anyone saw anything coming ahead, they are willing to spend a lot to make these park better, and i think BGW is at the top of their list to make the best, simply because it is in an untapped market and it is the perfect park to expand, and they basically almost have a monopoly just here, where as most other locations have much more competitor parks than BGW, which is why i think BGW is going to get the best end of the stick, also if they want to go for a year-round schedule, it is best for them to have a lot more to do indoors than outdoor.

 

[Frontseatbill]

I agree. The cold weather will prevent coasters from running and other outdoor rides that can't run below 40 degrees. So, what this mean that they will need rides that will draw the bodies to make it worth them having the park open year round. But, the park needs more than just dark rides to being in the bodies. Now, if they build a indoor coaster and a dark ride then I see something happening.

 

[netdvn]

if they want to go for a year-round schedule, it is best for them to have a lot more to do indoors than outdoor.

If the park wants to do a full year schedule, the park is gonna have to figure out how to bring families to W-burg in the middle of winter, since this is a dead period for the area. The park is gonna need a lot more than just a few dark rides and new countries to become a destination resort that operates full year.

Fixed. People seem to forget the size of Blackstone's portfolio and just how much money they have. They clearly want to up the status of all of their parks, hence all the of the new upgrades. Case in point, BGW is in the best hands financially. They have yet to lose any luster that the parks have and are only making moves to better them.

I don't really see Disney pumping in major attractions year after year into their under performing (or even their best performing parks).

 

[Zachary]

Blackstone sees massive amounts of potential in Williamsburg- don't ask me where they see it, but they do. They want to fundamentally reshape the mid-Atlantic's amusement/theme park market. The first large step is obviously enlarging the park's major attraction base- the examples of this so far would be Mach Tower and Verbolten. Mach Tower failed. The delay completely killed any of the PR potential for the ride and ended up really hurting the park last season. They now have a whole lot riding on Verbolten- a coaster with huge potential and a huge budget. Sadly, potential and budget doesn't make a good ride. If Verbolten doesn't bring a large surge of revenue, there's a formidable chance that you won't see any of the things in the first post come into fruition- especially in that time-frame. The only exception to this would be the resort, which I predict will happen regardless- I'm guessing that it's too far along to cancel at this point. If the reception is positive and Blackstone sees the numbers it needs, I'd predict that we'll start seeing those darkrides Party Rocker is talking about. If attendance is still moving in an upward direction, year round ops and a new country are both quite possible. Basically, I'd say that year round ops are by far the most unlikely thing, however I can also tell you that Blackstone is pushing really hard to make it happen. Blackstone knows just as well as anyone else that a successful collection of year-round parks are worth a ton more than seasonal ones. There are currently only 3 theme parks in SWP&E's collection that aren't year-round. Those are Sesame Place, SeaWorld San Antonio, and Busch Gardens Williamsburg. SeaWorld San Antonio opens February 4th this year- by far the earliest they've opened since BEC bought the SeaWorld parks. I don't know much about that park or that market but I'd guess that they're heading for year-round operations as well. Blackstone wants BGW to be a year-round park. Can they do it? That's the question.

 

[Party Rocker]

i can see where blackstone sees the potential, after all you have an untapped market which is in a very popular destination city.

to further prove blackstones interest in williamsburg, i was told that NBC12 reported on the news this morning that a seaworld is going to be built in williamsburg. i haven't found proof yet to back that up, but still it seems likely to see seaworld come up here now.

 

[Zachary]

That NBC12 report wouldn't confirm anything except that they read BGWFans. If anyone has evidence, please post it- I'd love to see what they said.

 

[Parkgoer]

I don't really see Disney pumping in major attractions year after year into their under performing (or even their best performing parks).

Really? DLR has a fairly good history over the past ten years of new attractions. WDW has been in hardcore refurb mode while pumping out DVC after DVC. Disney is not just rides, it is for everything offered. In the grand scheme they have done quite a bit. With FLE about to hit Phase One opening in the next six weeks and Pandora breaking ground next year then they are headed good places. Under performing parks? They are still the most profitable portion of Disney.

I do not see any trace of an article referencing SW in the slightest on NBC 12's web page.

 

[Shane]

I can't find any references on nbc12.com

 

[Gavin]

None on Google News either...

 

[netdvn]

Making BGW a destination park would take far more than a resort and new countries/rides.

- The park needs an ad campaign that can draw people outside the traditional areas that park visitors come from (MD, NJ, NC, PA, and locals). Think Disney/Universal ads that play across the country (or at least a very wide area).
- The park needs a way to keep people on property. Look at Disneyland for example. There are multiple hotels, a transportation system linking everything, a shopping/dining district, and a second gate. You could easily spend a few days there without leaving the property and there are still plenty of things to do outside the park year-round as well. Williamsburg doesn't really have that outside of the Historic Triangle.
- The park needs nice weather to keep rides operational and people coming into the park. Nobody's gonna come to the park in the dead of winter when its 20 degrees out other than a few enthusiasts. Especially with better options for families out there.
- The park has to be able to appease JCC/Kingsmill with their additions. Kingsmill is a huge obstacle the park has to face. Even though Blackstone has probably faced strict regulations on their parks before (Universal), I'm pretty sure KM is gonna be a pain to deal with. Even Universal Orlando didn't have to paint their biggest rides blue to match the color of the sky. Imagine what a second gate/resort is gonna do to the noise/traffic in the area.

Just my $2.

 

[Gavin]

A good portion of that was discussed here. bgwfans.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1019

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And as far as KM is concerned there still is the option of moving the park to York.

 

[Party Rocker]

Making BGW a destination park would take far more than a resort and new countries/rides.

- The park needs an ad campaign that can draw people outside the traditional areas that park visitors come from (MD, NJ, NC, PA, and locals). Think Disney/Universal ads that play across the country (or at least a very wide area).
- The park needs a way to keep people on property. Look at Disneyland for example. There are multiple hotels, a transportation system linking everything, a shopping/dining district, and a second gate. You could easily spend a few days there without leaving the property and there are still plenty of things to do outside the park year-round as well. Williamsburg doesn't really have that outside of the Historic Triangle.
- The park needs nice weather to keep rides operational and people coming into the park. Nobody's gonna come to the park in the dead of winter when its 20 degrees out other than a few enthusiasts. Especially with better options for families out there.
- The park has to be able to appease JCC/Kingsmill with their additions. Kingsmill is a huge obstacle the park has to face. Even though Blackstone has probably faced strict regulations on their parks before (Universal), I'm pretty sure KM is gonna be a pain to deal with. Even Universal Orlando didn't have to paint their biggest rides blue to match the color of the sky. Imagine what a second gate/resort is gonna do to the noise/traffic in the area.

Just my $2.

- i agree with that, but they are already pulling in guests from other countries, keep in mind, i have met people from france, england, and other european nations as guests in the park (that don't work there for the summer).

- take a look in the "somethings brewing" thread, it was discussed that the park is possibly taking on the land where the brewery sits and turning it into a seaworld perhaps and then turning the england parking lot into shopping, with changes to parking as well. plus they are adding a resort. this will keep people on their property, and since people visit usually in the range of 2-3 days or weekends really they spend one day at BGW, one at WCUSA, and one at CW. They stay on park property for an entire weekend (practically).

- that is why they are adding on multiple dark rides. even though it is rumored, and it not out yet by the park, sources have said it is final and 2 dark rides for sure are coming within the next 4-5 years. plus, verbolten is pertly indoors which may provide for better winter operation than other coasters at the park. so if all this does go thru, that means they will have 4 dark rides, probably major ones, and at most 2 coasters running if possible and then mach tower, sufficient draw for thrill seekers, and flat rides are all open, sufficient draw for younger riders. shows/restaurants going, sufficient for the older crowd.

- if blackstone owned the park when those rides were built and had a big say in the sky coasters, like griffon, things would have probably been much different. on top of that, KM is partnering with blackstone to build the resort and a second entrance to the park, so it is probably the beginning of a good friendship between the two.

just my $4

 

[netdvn]

- i agree with that, but they are already pulling in guests from other countries, keep in mind, i have met people from france, england, and other european nations as guests in the park (that don't work there for the summer).

All theme parks draw people from all over the world, not just BGW. That doesn't mean that SFGAdv or Hersheypark should be full year. The thing about Disney is that foreign tourists (UK, Brazil, etc) make up a good chunk of the visitors there. I've met some foreigners working at BGW over the summer, but the number of people wearing WDW/Universal t-shirts outweighed the foreigners.

- that is why they are adding on multiple dark rides. even though it is rumored, and it not out yet by the park, sources have said it is final and 2 dark rides for sure are coming within the next 4-5 years. plus, verbolten is pertly indoors which may provide for better winter operation than other coasters at the park. so if all this does go thru, that means they will have 4 dark rides, probably major ones, and at most 2 coasters running if possible and then mach tower, sufficient draw for thrill seekers, and flat rides are all open, sufficient draw for younger riders. shows/restaurants going, sufficient for the older crowd.

A lot of the major rides can't operate under a certain temperature (40 degrees is the cutoff for most of the big stuff) and VA winters get pretty cold. That just leaves the dark rides and a few medium rides.

- if blackstone owned the park when those rides were built and had a big say in the sky coasters, like griffon, things would have probably been much different. on top of that, KM is partnering with blackstone to build the resort and a second entrance to the park, so it is probably the beginning of a good friendship between the two.

Kingsmill was part of AB back when Busch owned that area of the town and the resort was considered an official resort that provided bus transportation to the theme parks/CW. The Busch family even owned a home in KM overlooking the river. That didn't stop residents from complaining about new additions to BGW.

I went through the Brewery thread yesterday... It'll be interesting to see how W/JCC tries to keep Busch from moving away. I'm pretty sure a resort complex is gonna raise some anger from residents though.

 

[Zachary]

- The park needs an ad campaign that can draw people outside the traditional areas that park visitors come from (MD, NJ, NC, PA, and locals). Think Disney/Universal ads that play across the country (or at least a very wide area).
- The park needs a way to keep people on property. Look at Disneyland for example. There are multiple hotels, a transportation system linking everything, a shopping/dining district, and a second gate. You could easily spend a few days there without leaving the property and there are still plenty of things to do outside the park year-round as well. Williamsburg doesn't really have that outside of the Historic Triangle.
- The park needs nice weather to keep rides operational and people coming into the park. Nobody's gonna come to the park in the dead of winter when its 20 degrees out other than a few enthusiasts. Especially with better options for families out there.
- The park has to be able to appease JCC/Kingsmill with their additions. Kingsmill is a huge obstacle the park has to face. Even though Blackstone has probably faced strict regulations on their parks before (Universal), I'm pretty sure KM is gonna be a pain to deal with. Even Universal Orlando didn't have to paint their biggest rides blue to match the color of the sky. Imagine what a second gate/resort is gonna do to the noise/traffic in the area.

- I defiantly agree 100% on the ad campaign part- the park's PR failure has been a big point of discussion in the Verbolten thread.

- I think BGW, WCUSA, the resort, and Colonial Williamsburg could be enough, but if something does happen with the brewery, there is defiantly huge potential there.

- This weekend the high is only supposed to be about 45 degrees but next weekend is forecast to be in the mid 50s. We really don't get constant winter weather around here. We typically average 2 snows or so a year and they're normally in February. With enough indoor attractions and with the right price, I think it's defiantly doable if the market is there.

- Actually Verbolten is going to be much closer to Kingsmill than any of these other things. Furthermore, lets not forget that the park is basically partnering with them on this resort...

 

[Party Rocker]

- i agree with that, but they are already pulling in guests from other countries, keep in mind, i have met people from france, england, and other european nations as guests in the park (that don't work there for the summer).

All theme parks draw people from all over the world, not just BGW. That doesn't mean that SFGAdv or Hersheypark should be full year. The thing about Disney is that foreign tourists (UK, Brazil, etc) make up a good chunk of the visitors there. I've met some foreigners working at BGW over the summer, but the number of people wearing WDW/Universal t-shirts outweighed the foreigners.

i only agree they aren't reaching their potential in attracting guests, but at least they can get international guests, i am pretty sure KD doesn't or hardly does.

- that is why they are adding on multiple dark rides. even though it is rumored, and it not out yet by the park, sources have said it is final and 2 dark rides for sure are coming within the next 4-5 years. plus, verbolten is pertly indoors which may provide for better winter operation than other coasters at the park. so if all this does go thru, that means they will have 4 dark rides, probably major ones, and at most 2 coasters running if possible and then mach tower, sufficient draw for thrill seekers, and flat rides are all open, sufficient draw for younger riders. shows/restaurants going, sufficient for the older crowd.

A lot of the major rides can't operate under a certain temperature (40 degrees is the cutoff for most of the big stuff) and VA winters get pretty cold. That just leaves the dark rides and a few medium rides.

the temp only affects water rides and coasters, which is only about 7 rides, and to be honest, if you look at the averages for the weather in the area, they are in the 50's, in fact just this past few months and currently, there has been some pretty amazing weekends. plus, iff you have 4 major dark rides and 1 coaster at minimum, they should be alright. after all, they will of course probably advertise 4 major dark rides, 2 coasters at max, and mach tower. all that will bring guests in.

- if blackstone owned the park when those rides were built and had a big say in the sky coasters, like griffon, things would have probably been much different. on top of that, KM is partnering with blackstone to build the resort and a second entrance to the park, so it is probably the beginning of a good friendship between the two.

Kingsmill was part of AB back when Busch owned that area of the town and the resort was considered an official resort that provided bus transportation to the theme parks/CW. The Busch family even owned a home in KM overlooking the river. That didn't stop residents from complaining about new additions to BGW.

i know, but blackstone is much different from the busch family, they are in it to win it so to speak. the busch family was more trying to please everyone, even KM. i am sure blackstone could care less of KM, and if they do it is only so they can build a resort with them.

I went through the Brewery thread yesterday... It'll be interesting to see how W/JCC tries to keep Busch from moving away. I'm pretty sure a resort complex is gonna raise some anger from residents though.

KM and blackstone are working together to build one resort instead of two that will benefit both KM and the park, even though the resort will be really controlled by the park, it will still greatly benefit KM. i think that was mentioned earlier.

 

[netdvn]

i only agree they aren't reaching their potential in attracting guests, but at least they can get international guests, i am pretty sure KD doesn't or hardly does.

I'm pretty sure KD draws the same amount of internationals as BGW. Regional theme parks aren't known for being tourist magnets for internationals since they're usually touring the city.

plus, iff you have 4 major dark rides and 1 coaster at minimum, they should be alright. after all, they will of course probably advertise 4 major dark rides, 2 coasters at max, and mach tower. all that will bring guests in.

Mach breaks down at 40 degrees. Plus as Swiftman said, weather is wacky around these parts. It was 60 yesterday and dropped into the 40s today.

i know, but blackstone is much different from the busch family, they are in it to win it so to speak. the busch family was more trying to please everyone, even KM. i am sure blackstone could care less of KM, and if they do it is only so they can build a resort with them.

Considering KM was Busch, I can see why they tried to please everyone. Even if Blackstone ignores KM, they still have to listen to the city (and I'm pretty sure the city's gonna hear what residents have to say). Hopefully this means we get a new wooden coaster in the future if this is true.

 

[Gavin]

Considering KM was Busch, I can see why they tried to please everyone. Even if Blackstone ignores KM, they still have to listen to the city (and I'm pretty sure the city's gonna hear what residents have to say). Hopefully this means we get a new wooden coaster in the future if this is true.

But that's where the part about moving to York comes in. York doesn't have any residents near the park that can complain, they could careless as to what KM would say. Even threating to move to York would cause a serious upheaval.