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It's like this, I used to work for a sports radio host that was not very liked, yet I would hear people say, "Man, I can't stand that guy, did you hear what he said about blah blah blah?" They can't stand him, yet they don't stop listening. Many of you have said how you aren't going back or you can't stand the stuff they do, but you still keep going, and talking about it. They win either way, your money is spent. PK, you said you weren't going to Howl-O-Scream at all this year because it was ruined, yet you went anyway and had a good time at Blood Banquet. Zach, you said you were done, yet how many times did you go during Illuminights? You two are not the only ones, just examples. That's the point of my sarcastic posts, you are being hypocritical.
I never said I wasn't going at all, I said I'd give it an open chance and I did (I was right about a lot of my predictions, BTW). I also did say I also wasn't going as much this year as before, which will cost them money because the things I like about the event are lacking.

That's what going on here with England, year after year the park is getting rid of the charm that people came to enjoy and fewer and fewer guests are coming each year as a result. The park is clearly driving away it's fans. We talk about the negative stuff because we do care about the park and want to see it succeed.

I was on your side of this argument before a few years ago, I see too much stuff going away to justify the "Wait and see" position any more. I waited and saw nothing good.
One gets the sense that SG doesn't like the park and wants to change it. We could probably debate for ages whether he is right or wrong. I think a more useful question is whether anything can be done about it.

I work in a large bureaucracy and I see seniors making decisions every day that hurt the people, morale, the mission, and the organization, itself. It infuriates me, because their bosses don't see it or don't care. Occasionally, one of them actually gets called out for breathtakingly bad choices, but generally all anyone above them notices is when they do something that makes the organization look good. These people are incredibly good at spinning things so that successes are their doing and failures are someone else's fault. And all they care about is their own career.

My long-winded point is that I can easily see how SG can continue to make very bad choices and feel no repercussions.
Pretzel Kaiser said:
That's what going on here with England, year after year the park is getting rid of the charm that people came to enjoy and fewer and fewer guests are coming each year as a result. The park is clearly driving away it's fans.

Is there hard evidence to back this assertion up? Or is this an assessment based on views expressed here and on Facebook?

It is one thing to cite attendance figures. It is an entirely different thing to be able to find a causal link between those stats and specific events.

Not trying to be confrontational; just asking.
Why are Star Wars fans still fans after the prequels? They still have fond memories of what they fell in love with at first, share that memory with other fans, still have glimpses of what they fell in love with, and have hope of it getting better.

Somebody at corporate will realize what he's doing to the park is hurting the park.

Nic: There are attedance numbers that I can't find now since I'm on mobile, but I will be more than happy to get them to you when I can.
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I've always thought that the best indicator is what non-enthusiast friends and family are saying and doing. I have a friend who I'd go to the park once or twice a month with just two years ago. He has gone once this year and doesn't plan on returning this season. The trips made by anyone in my family this year amount to a total of zero. I could seriously go on and on. People are getting fed up. No one cancels their passes and blows up in a fit of rage on Facebook- they simply quietly let their pass expire and don't think about renewing it. That's the danger for the park.

Also, for the record, there is SO much I want to say but I'm typing all of this out in my phone on my way up to PA so forgive my brevity.
Façade work will happen as it should for a retheme. It will be like turning a civic into a Veyron.

Banbury Cross = timeless.
Frozen in a time that is ageless and could relate to anyone.

Austin Powers or 60's rock stars in the heyday of rock-n-roll London = dated.
Will eventually need "updated" again as the fad, isolated to a few, grows old.

See Wayne's World at Carowinds for reference.
I accept that attendance numbers are down, So is the economy. Zach is the only one providing evidence that would support a causal link between Scott's changes and the declining number of guests.

I'm just asking for analytic rigor here. It honestly helps your case.
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Cody said:
Then why do you go? Why keep talking about something you obviously despise?

This was meant as a serious and genuine question. You have hope. Hope=optimism, to an extent. I wouldn't base the attendance strictly on the decisions made by the park, but also on the fact that many families do not have the dispensable income that had a few years ago. My feeling, with the doom and gloom is, are we sure this talk is not hurting the park? When people look to plan their vacation, they search online, find this site, and see that the people most passionate about the park are speaking badly of how things are going there. Basically, we are the movie critics I spoke of before.
Before Illuminights, I went with a friend who hadn't been in years and they said they were disappointed. I also didn't go to the park during Illuminights at all this year. There's also the fact that every other theme park chain attendance numbers have been on the rise for the last few years and we're the only ones who are not, so as far as the economy side, it's affects on parks have appeared to be over with.

Edit: My "hope" with this thing is that they can't afford to do much damage, which is an awful thing to hope for.
I got vomit buckets prepared for next year, if anyone wants to rent one just ask.

In all honesty I won't mind the changes as long as there isn't any red or blue paint used, but from what Zach has been saying I don't really have my hopes up.
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Are KD's numbers up or down? I think you need to stick to similar economies.

My personal experience: if I didn't have two-year passes, I don't know how often I'd go, because of last years government furlough and the possibility of a government shutdown and/or another furlough. I think a lot of BGW's customer base has been affected directly or indirectly by the government budget "issues."
Cedar Fair (the company who owns King's Dominion) is up, I'm not 100% sure if they release their parks individually. But I can check when I'm on a real PC.
Am I the only one here that doesn't think 60s rock is old and dated at least not British Invasion stuff)? I don't really find Banbury Cross to be old and dated either.

- You could really call both of them timeless in their own right.
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