Project 2025/Holzfäller: Big Bad Wolf 2 (B&M Family Invert)

[metalman]

It gets better- That Polish dragon statue IS at a castle in Krakow! Hahaha! Nice. Oh I wish I was a theme park designer
Look at these images! Wow.

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[PhantomJB93]

I think we tend to overthink things - it's a theme park, the geography doesn't have to make sense. Spain is and always has been the easy and obvious choice if BGW were to add another country, and it is for a reason - it's easily the most major European country with no representation at BGW and has a culture and history different enough from the others to be a good addition and feel different from the rest of the park.

 

[Zachary]

I think we tend to overthink things - it's a theme park, the geography doesn't have to make sense. Spain is and always has been the easy and obvious choice if BGW were to add another country, and it is for a reason - it's easily the most major European country with no representation at BGW and has a culture and history different enough from the others to be a good addition and feel different from the rest of the park.

This is my feeling too.

Once upon a time I would have hoped for a grander vision for the long arc of the park identifying areas where potential future countries could be designed, aspirations to retheme New France (if not all of the duplicative hamlets), etc. That said, I have no expectation of that now. The only thing I care about at this point is that the currently-super-ride-focused BGW doesn't entrap future BGW into a ton more Germany. We've seen how hard it is to clean up mistakes like that before. *glares at Festa & New France*

 

[I64 Trekker]

Doubtful it would ever happen, but based on the geographic location, and assuming they don't want to create a new section, how about a nod to the past and calling it East Germany? They could do some really cool stuff tied into the Cold War era, if you think about it. And while they are at it, they could turn Mach Tower into the surveillance tower that stuck out like a sore thumb in what used to be East Berlin.

 

[halfabee]

They could just give that area no theming at all, name whatever ends up there The Busch Gardens Roller Coaster, and then we could all use our imaginations.

"This new Lichtenstein hamlet seems almost as big as the real thing..."

 

[Thomas]

I can’t wait for modern BGWs take on Spain: Standard metal frame warehouse buildings selling tacos and some port-o-potties dotted around a treeless field.

 

[Zachary]

They could just give that area no theming at all, name whatever ends up there The Busch Gardens Roller Coaster, and then we could all use our imaginations.

Unironically believe this would be better than theming 2024 to Germany. It would be way easier to fix later.

 

[rvathoosie]

Doubtful it would ever happen, but based on the geographic location, and assuming they don't want to create a new section, how about a nod to the past and calling it East Germany? They could do some really cool stuff tied into the Cold War era, if you think about it. And while they are at it, they could turn Mach Tower into the surveillance tower that stuck out like a sore thumb in what used to be East Berlin.

I really, really like this.

 

[warfelg]

Ok....nasty rabbit hole time:


What if this isn't a coaster. What's that? Ground drilling? That confirms coaster? Ok yes. What if this height waiver isn't for a coaster, it's for a new drop tower or Intamin/S&S space shot style tower? This could reuse the Drachen Fire maintenance shed for a station.

This puts near the entrance for the new hamlet two big time attractions.

Now, with this the train gets re-routed, swinging much closer to the current boneyard and coming up much straighter along the back property line. This would level out the track much more to give a stop in the far corner to service this new hamlet and get guests much closer to Das Festhaus. In addition this makes the pathway behind the current Drachen Fire station much wider, giving a better opening to this new space.

In the new field space, you get your couple of flats, your various stands. At the spot where the train tracks and Boneyard Rd intersect is the station for a smaller high thrill coaster. Think of a BGW version of Firechaser Express, Mavrick, Taron, or even Hagrid's. Something low to the ground that uses high speeds and quick transitions. But wouldn't DarKoaster and Bolt already fill that hole? Yes....and no. Think of something much longer. Maybe has an inversion or two. Definitely much faster. All in a very compact layout that's between the size of the other two. Hell if you want to go really different lets for for something like F.L.Y. and steal KD's "unique launched coaster" thunder.

Then @Zachary 's Beir Garden idea where Mach Tower was can go into effect over there. BGW gets their Giga while also adding a unique ride. The whole section, due to it's dead end nature, becomes a much more thrill focused part of the park. This frees them up to worry about family friendly in the other areas of the park where there's openings to update things.

And best yet, they can do this construction over 2-3 years and open it all at once as part of the 50th celebration.

 

[mikes]

It's a new water ride.... Roman Rapids is getting the axe.

Don't believe anything I wrote.

 

[Icer]

They are taking Roman Rapids and putting it on a 200 foot tall platform

 

[Seaworld History]

Intamin Super Flume

 

[Thomas]

They are taking Roman Rapids and putting it on a 200 foot tall platform

I want to believe: #SkyIsland2024

 

[enaosaka]

I think we all would—but Project 2024 is going to force BGW to answer the immediate question of "what is Festhaus Park"—and it's gonna suck if they decide Festhaus Park = Germany.

oh yeah I agree - 3 German sections is just too much

 

[belsaas]

Aggressive German Expansion has certainly not worked well in the past...

 

[Jonesta6]

When you think of it though, you get Rhinefeld (which of it's at all based on the real-life Rheinfelden is actually in Switzerland) which is South Germany (even though geographically speaking in the park it's further North), Oktoberfest is a South Germany event but supposedly also represents Bavaria to the North (though technically South of Rhinefeld in the park)...

Basically there's room to add a middle Germany section (to the Northeast in the park, because screw geographic consistency).

However, just because it's possible doesn't mean it's a good idea...

 

[BGWnut]

When you think of it though, you get Rhinefeld (which of it's at all based on the real-life Rheinfelden is actually in Switzerland) which is South Germany (even though geographically speaking in the park it's further North), Oktoberfest is a South Germany event but supposedly also represents Bavaria to the North (though technically South of Rhinefeld in the park)...

Basically there's room to add a middle Germany section (to the Northeast in the park, because screw geographic consistency).

However, just because it's possible doesn't mean it's a good idea...

Bavaria is also in Southern Germany and the home of Oktoberfest. So really BGW is representing the two states that occupy the southern portion of Germany.

If they choose to make this more Germany I would hope that it's themed to Berlin or maybe Hamburg. That would be cool. I would prefer a new country though.

 

[halfabee]

Is it really that bad if Festhaus Park becomes more Germany? I get the desire for a new hamlet, and I share it. Additionally, I question whether the park really needs another awkwardly-accessed third section for an existing country, a section which probably only has one ride in it, at least at first. They just did that with Pantheon. But I think that approach actually makes more sense in Germany and probably shouldn't have been done in Festa, rather than the opposite. ("Neither" is also an option, but not realistic IMO.)

When Drachen Fire stood in Festa Field in the 90s, it just made sense that dipping into the corner between Festhaus and the bumper cars would take one to more Oktoberfest. It simply felt like more Oktoberfest. Very natural. It didn't suck at all, even if the ride itself kinda did.

If BGW puts in a world class ride back there rather than a one-trick pony, but they don't also spend the major extra dollars to make it an entirely different hamlet (and yes, it would be major extra dollars to create something like e.g. Spain), why would that necessarily suck? I'd still be thrilled. I would just as soon see the existing Rhinefeld area become Austria or Switzerland than wish for Festhaus Park to become something other than Germany, with that weird access corner next to the Festhaus which now would have a big "SPAIN" or "BELGIUM" or "GREECE" or "FINLAND" sign across it. It isn't a particularly great portal to a completely different country.

I might feel differently if there were a train station back there, and if the Festhaus Park entrance could be truly opened up without banishing the bumper cars from the park completely, and maybe if there were a new walking bridge from Festhaus Park to Italy, and... but again, this all adds major cost to an already expensive idea, and I'm not banking on any of that happening. Especially not these days, and especially in light of SEAS's apparent current strategy.

So if, for example, a fantastic dragon themed RMC were to go into the Festhaus Park/boneyard area using Drachen Fire's station, and the theme of the area remained Germany... well, at least the station and setting would probably be far better than the guest-facing experience in Festa Field. As there seems to be little evidence of appetite to add major "forever cost base" to the park unless it's a thrill ride, and as I'm not sure it's even wise to add a bunch of completely new infrastructure now/soon anyway, I'd take the new ground-up RMC Drachenstein as a major reason to celebrate.

And over in Rhinefeld Switzerland, the Burgermeister thing could be kept, and a similarly structured chocolate-themed upcharge experience could be added using the same space at alternating times, so there's greater utilization of that "speakeasy" build-out for the entire family. I dunno. Different thread.

 

[BGWnut]

Is it really that bad if Festhaus Park becomes more Germany? I get the desire for a new hamlet, and I share it. Additionally, I question whether the park really needs another awkwardly-accessed third section for an existing country, a section which probably only has one ride in it, at least at first. They just did that with Pantheon. But I think that approach actually makes more sense in Germany and probably shouldn't have been done in Festa, rather than the opposite. ("Neither" is also an option, but not realistic IMO.)

When Drachen Fire stood in Festa Field in the 90s, it just made sense that dipping into the corner between Festhaus and the bumper cars would take one to more Oktoberfest. It simply felt like more Oktoberfest. Very natural. It didn't suck at all, even if the ride itself kinda did.

If BGW puts in a world class ride back there rather than a one-trick pony, but they don't also spend the major extra dollars to make it an entirely different hamlet (and yes, it would be major extra dollars to create something like e.g. Spain), why would that necessarily suck? I'd still be thrilled. I would just as soon see the existing Rhinefeld area become Austria or Switzerland than wish for Festhaus Park to become something other than Germany, with that weird access corner next to the Festhaus which now would have a big "SPAIN" or "BELGIUM" or "GREECE" or "FINLAND" sign across it. It isn't a particularly great portal to a completely different country.

I might feel differently if there were a train station back there, and if the Festhaus Park entrance could be truly opened up without banishing the bumper cars from the park completely, and maybe if there were a new walking bridge from Festhaus Park to Italy, and... but again, this all adds major cost to an already expensive idea, and I'm not banking on any of that happening. Especially not these days, and especially in light of SEAS's apparent current strategy.

So if, for example, a fantastic dragon themed RMC were to go into the Festhaus Park/boneyard area using Drachen Fire's station, and the theme of the area remained Germany... well, at least the station and setting would probably be far better than the guest-facing experience in Festa Field. As there seems to be little evidence of appetite to add major "forever cost base" to the park unless it's a thrill ride, and as I'm not sure it's even wise to add a bunch of completely new infrastructure now/soon anyway, I'd take the new ground-up RMC Drachenstein as a major reason to celebrate.

And over in Rhinefeld Switzerland, the Burgermeister thing could be kept, and a similarly structured chocolate-themed upcharge experience could be added using the same space at alternating times, so there's greater utilization of that "speakeasy" build-out for the entire family. I dunno. Different thread.

I've said it before but the Alpengeist Plaza is already themed to Switzerland. I will never understand why the park didn't just call it a new country and move on. The Alps aren't really that German. Plus all the flags they use in the area are the flags of all the Swiss Cantons. Why they haven't just started referring to it as Switzerland is something I still don't understand

 

[Zachary]

Is it really that bad if Festhaus Park becomes more Germany? I get the desire for a new hamlet, and I share it. Additionally, I question whether the park really needs another awkwardly-accessed third section for an existing country, a section which probably only has one ride in it, at least at first. They just did that with Pantheon. But I think that approach actually makes more sense in Germany and probably shouldn't have been done in Festa, rather than the opposite. ("Neither" is also an option, but not realistic IMO.)

When Drachen Fire stood in Festa Field in the 90s, it just made sense that dipping into the corner between Festhaus and the bumper cars would take one to more Oktoberfest. It simply felt like more Oktoberfest. Very natural. It didn't suck at all, even if the ride itself kinda did.

If BGW puts in a world class ride back there rather than a one-trick pony, but they don't also spend the major extra dollars to make it an entirely different hamlet (and yes, it would be major extra dollars to create something like e.g. Spain), why would that necessarily suck? I'd still be thrilled. I would just as soon see the existing Rhinefeld area become Austria or Switzerland than wish for Festhaus Park to become something other than Germany, with that weird access corner next to the Festhaus which now would have a big "SPAIN" or "BELGIUM" or "GREECE" or "FINLAND" sign across it. It isn't a particularly great portal to a completely different country.

I might feel differently if there were a train station back there, and if the Festhaus Park entrance could be truly opened up without banishing the bumper cars from the park completely, and maybe if there were a new walking bridge from Festhaus Park to Italy, and... but again, this all adds major cost to an already expensive idea, and I'm not banking on any of that happening. Especially not these days, and especially in light of SEAS's apparent current strategy.

So if, for example, a fantastic dragon themed RMC were to go into the Festhaus Park/boneyard area using Drachen Fire's station, and the theme of the area remained Germany... well, at least the station and setting would probably be far better than the guest-facing experience in Festa Field. As there seems to be little evidence of appetite to add major "forever cost base" to the park unless it's a thrill ride, and as I'm not sure it's even wise to add a bunch of completely new infrastructure now/soon anyway, I'd take the new ground-up RMC Drachenstein as a major reason to celebrate.

And over in Rhinefeld Switzerland, the Burgermeister thing could be kept, and a similarly structured chocolate-themed upcharge experience could be added using the same space at alternating times, so there's greater utilization of that "speakeasy" build-out for the entire family. I dunno. Different thread.

If we were just talking about one ride in Festhaus Park, I would agree with you. That said, BGW is rapidly running out of cheap-to-reach expansion plots and some of the largest areas of currently-not-occupied-but-still-reasonably-guest-accessible land can be found in and around Festhaus Park. It's easy for me to imagine that a theoretical 2024 coaster could utilize Drachen Fire's station and then have the vast majority of its layout outside the railroad loop in the boneyard—retaining much or even all of Festhaus Park for future development.

Drachen Spire allowed ample room around it for many additional attractions and I assume 2024 will end up doing the same. At the current addition pace, I think we'd easily be within the decade when we can expect that land to be utilized. I agree that one more German coaster isn't a problem—but in two decades when there are three more German coasters, and four new German flat rides, that's a whole other story in my opinion.