Project 2018: Battle for Eire (VR Attraction)
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RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
Small but major attraction update : Seaworld parks has filled for a new name trademark for : Battle of Eire. The definition of Eire is defined as the official name for Ireland between 1937 and 1949, when it became the Republic of Ireland. The name Eire is still sometimes used outside Ireland.
From a mythical standpoint :The modern Irish Éire evolved from the Old Irish word Ériu, which was the name of a Gaelic goddess. Ériu is generally believed to have been the matron goddess of Ireland, a goddess of sovereignty, or simply a goddess of the land.
I can only assume that the filling for the Battle of Eire is for the new virtual attraction in 2018
Small but major attraction update : Seaworld parks has filled for a new name trademark for : Battle of Eire. The definition of Eire is defined as the official name for Ireland between 1937 and 1949, when it became the Republic of Ireland. The name Eire is still sometimes used outside Ireland.
From a mythical standpoint :The modern Irish Éire evolved from the Old Irish word Ériu, which was the name of a Gaelic goddess. Ériu is generally believed to have been the matron goddess of Ireland, a goddess of sovereignty, or simply a goddess of the land.
I can only assume that the filling for the Battle of Eire is for the new virtual attraction in 2018
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RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
Interesting news (on the trademark)... Though I'm less enthralled with it, as it's misspelled, clumsily mixes English and Irish, and invokes some rather nasty history--compounding the problem.
As Irishman probably also knows, when written in Irish (Gaeilge), Éire is still the official name of the Republic and of the island spelled in the nominative case, not just between 1937-49. But what to call the island and Republic has been a very contentious constitutional & political dispute, stemming from Irish independence from the UK, and having implications for what the 26 county Republic represents versus the 32 county island…i.e. if you call the newly independent Republic "Ireland" (versus some Irish word "Éire" that English-speakers don’t understand), does that reinforce the Republic’s claim that the whole of Ireland should be free of the UK? What the UK should officially call the Republic of Ireland, and whether the Republic has an official claim on the remaining six counties, wasn't really put to bed until...1998, in the Good Friday Accords. Maybe.
As for the spelling... Notice the síneadh fada (accent) on the "E." That's actually vital, as without it, "eire" is an entirely different word and means "load, burden." Those (admittedly few, despite it being a compulsory subject in school, one of the Republic's state languages, and an official EU working language) that speak Irish routinely, and those (much greater) number that have more of an appreciation for Irish history, language, and culture often dislike when an English-speaker calls the island "Eire" or even "Éire"--with opinions ranging from the speaker is uneducated/ignorant to they're being downright derogatory. Though that's complicated, as originally, even some Irish republicans (those wanting independence) wanted the country known as Éire, even when speaking English, which contributed to the controversy referenced above when the UK latched on to that to reinforce that, no, the Republic "Éire" is not the same as the island “Ireland.”... And there was another controversy with stamps, etc. printed by the Irish government when fonts changed to Roman letters it was argued that printing convention should drop the accent on the capital “E” for a few years. In any event however, given the alternate meaning & history, "Eire" is indeed used in a derogatory manner to this day, and it has enormous political baggage, though most Americans have little appreciation for this...
Bottom-line: if you're going to use "Éire," please at least spell it correctly, with the accent. Or better yet, just don't bastardize the language. Write it completely in Irish and add an English translation if you like. We have figured out how to navigate Oktoberfest & other hamlets without a major language issue, after all. Which is another thing, if you did write this trademarked-name in Irish, you wouldn't write "Éire" in this context due to Irish's use of the genitive case--it would actually be "Cath na hÉireann"/Battle of Ireland.
Additionally, SEAS probably intended "battle for [the island],” meant to invoke some sort of mythical image of a battle for the island, not make a political statement about 20th century fighting for independence and the splits that occurred both from the UK and within Irish politics that resulted in the formation of Northern Ireland and decades of terror and unrest. All the more reason to steer clear of "Éire," which is heavily associated with the name of the Republic and the related controversy, versus of the island, which most Americans recognize more when spelled in the dative case anyhow--"Éirinn" (Erin). Perhaps "Battle of Erin" was taken?
Most people probably won't think twice if that's what the park calls it...but if you understand Irish history, and/or are old enough to remember routine IRA terror and bombings, "Éire" is really an unwise name, and a potentially self-inflected controversy that the park doesn't need. Best to avoid anything that invokes themes of Irish independence. I personally find using "Eire" ignorant, and put it in the same class with other slurs that have become commonly accepted and even used by those of Irish descent that don't understand the history.
And Dear god SEAS, please don't name anything "Ulster" and wade into that Northern Ireland/Six Counties/Troubles mess.
Interesting news (on the trademark)... Though I'm less enthralled with it, as it's misspelled, clumsily mixes English and Irish, and invokes some rather nasty history--compounding the problem.
As Irishman probably also knows, when written in Irish (Gaeilge), Éire is still the official name of the Republic and of the island spelled in the nominative case, not just between 1937-49. But what to call the island and Republic has been a very contentious constitutional & political dispute, stemming from Irish independence from the UK, and having implications for what the 26 county Republic represents versus the 32 county island…i.e. if you call the newly independent Republic "Ireland" (versus some Irish word "Éire" that English-speakers don’t understand), does that reinforce the Republic’s claim that the whole of Ireland should be free of the UK? What the UK should officially call the Republic of Ireland, and whether the Republic has an official claim on the remaining six counties, wasn't really put to bed until...1998, in the Good Friday Accords. Maybe.
As for the spelling... Notice the síneadh fada (accent) on the "E." That's actually vital, as without it, "eire" is an entirely different word and means "load, burden." Those (admittedly few, despite it being a compulsory subject in school, one of the Republic's state languages, and an official EU working language) that speak Irish routinely, and those (much greater) number that have more of an appreciation for Irish history, language, and culture often dislike when an English-speaker calls the island "Eire" or even "Éire"--with opinions ranging from the speaker is uneducated/ignorant to they're being downright derogatory. Though that's complicated, as originally, even some Irish republicans (those wanting independence) wanted the country known as Éire, even when speaking English, which contributed to the controversy referenced above when the UK latched on to that to reinforce that, no, the Republic "Éire" is not the same as the island “Ireland.”... And there was another controversy with stamps, etc. printed by the Irish government when fonts changed to Roman letters it was argued that printing convention should drop the accent on the capital “E” for a few years. In any event however, given the alternate meaning & history, "Eire" is indeed used in a derogatory manner to this day, and it has enormous political baggage, though most Americans have little appreciation for this...
Bottom-line: if you're going to use "Éire," please at least spell it correctly, with the accent. Or better yet, just don't bastardize the language. Write it completely in Irish and add an English translation if you like. We have figured out how to navigate Oktoberfest & other hamlets without a major language issue, after all. Which is another thing, if you did write this trademarked-name in Irish, you wouldn't write "Éire" in this context due to Irish's use of the genitive case--it would actually be "Cath na hÉireann"/Battle of Ireland.
Additionally, SEAS probably intended "battle for [the island],” meant to invoke some sort of mythical image of a battle for the island, not make a political statement about 20th century fighting for independence and the splits that occurred both from the UK and within Irish politics that resulted in the formation of Northern Ireland and decades of terror and unrest. All the more reason to steer clear of "Éire," which is heavily associated with the name of the Republic and the related controversy, versus of the island, which most Americans recognize more when spelled in the dative case anyhow--"Éirinn" (Erin). Perhaps "Battle of Erin" was taken?
Most people probably won't think twice if that's what the park calls it...but if you understand Irish history, and/or are old enough to remember routine IRA terror and bombings, "Éire" is really an unwise name, and a potentially self-inflected controversy that the park doesn't need. Best to avoid anything that invokes themes of Irish independence. I personally find using "Eire" ignorant, and put it in the same class with other slurs that have become commonly accepted and even used by those of Irish descent that don't understand the history.
And Dear god SEAS, please don't name anything "Ulster" and wade into that Northern Ireland/Six Counties/Troubles mess.
RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
I'd prefer "The Otherworld" hinted to in the announcement video. "Battle of Éire" does not do it for me. Also seems in poor taste to combine Éire and Battle.
I'd prefer "The Otherworld" hinted to in the announcement video. "Battle of Éire" does not do it for me. Also seems in poor taste to combine Éire and Battle.
RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
Deserved rant, but could be just in the patten office they don't use stylized lettering or:
https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Eire-Kieran-Wasserman/dp/0595368603
There is a book called "The Battle for Eire" that they might have used for inspiration and it has to do with copyright laws.
Just basically saying because they didn't use the proper Éire in the text doesn't mean it won't be used. Or just "Americanizing" the name to make it "easier" to pronounce could be the case.
thopping said:
Deserved rant, but could be just in the patten office they don't use stylized lettering or:
https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Eire-Kieran-Wasserman/dp/0595368603
There is a book called "The Battle for Eire" that they might have used for inspiration and it has to do with copyright laws.
Just basically saying because they didn't use the proper Éire in the text doesn't mean it won't be used. Or just "Americanizing" the name to make it "easier" to pronounce could be the case.
RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
Poor taste, indeed. And there are TONS of Irish mythological themes involving the underworld/otherworld that would be far more culturally-sensitive and historically-appropriate for a park that is supposed to have centuries-"old country" recreation of hamlets. Why on earth would you want to go anywhere near 20th century Irish politics??? Probably the same crew that thought a stunt bike theme in Festa would be a great anachronism for the park...
Poor taste, indeed. And there are TONS of Irish mythological themes involving the underworld/otherworld that would be far more culturally-sensitive and historically-appropriate for a park that is supposed to have centuries-"old country" recreation of hamlets. Why on earth would you want to go anywhere near 20th century Irish politics??? Probably the same crew that thought a stunt bike theme in Festa would be a great anachronism for the park...
RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
Rant I admit, but this is really a heated topic with many people. Whether the park is subjected to it, I don't know, but I do enough that it's really not a smart name.
True, I completely get the stylization. And it could be that they couldn't use the accent in the USPTO filing.
My main point with the name is how it relates to Irish independence, and what that invokes. Whether you use the accent or not just demonstrates whether you are ignorant of the language too, not just the history.
And true, Merboy, it's possible they toss this one and/or register a few...
warfelg said:
Rant I admit, but this is really a heated topic with many people. Whether the park is subjected to it, I don't know, but I do enough that it's really not a smart name.
True, I completely get the stylization. And it could be that they couldn't use the accent in the USPTO filing.
My main point with the name is how it relates to Irish independence, and what that invokes. Whether you use the accent or not just demonstrates whether you are ignorant of the language too, not just the history.
And true, Merboy, it's possible they toss this one and/or register a few...
RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
What's the odds that most people visiting the park would know all of that though?
Tempesto has the stunt motorcycle driver theme, OktoberZest has a John Denver song, Invadr combines Vikings and French Canada. This stuff doesn't really hurt the park in any meaningful ways. Heck, I would bet most people the visit like the themeing but don't care about the story.
thopping said:
What's the odds that most people visiting the park would know all of that though?
Tempesto has the stunt motorcycle driver theme, OktoberZest has a John Denver song, Invadr combines Vikings and French Canada. This stuff doesn't really hurt the park in any meaningful ways. Heck, I would bet most people the visit like the themeing but don't care about the story.
RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
I would point out that a lot of the park theming is based on caricatures and stereotypes to the point of being (at a minimum) tone deaf. Killarney already looks like a box of Lucky Charms. So, I don't, personally, find it surprising to find them stepping into this particular patch of quicksand.
I would point out that a lot of the park theming is based on caricatures and stereotypes to the point of being (at a minimum) tone deaf. Killarney already looks like a box of Lucky Charms. So, I don't, personally, find it surprising to find them stepping into this particular patch of quicksand.
RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
To put it a little more at ease right now the expanded filing says:
http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87588453&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch
There's the current filing expanded look. FWIW Invadr's logo (search by owner SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment LLC) and you'll find the very first filing was a similar all uppercase block lettering look.
To put it a little more at ease right now the expanded filing says:
http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87588453&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch
There's the current filing expanded look. FWIW Invadr's logo (search by owner SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment LLC) and you'll find the very first filing was a similar all uppercase block lettering look.
RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
Admittedly, increasingly few. How many could even find Ireland on a map? I have a feeling it is more age-dependent. If you remember IRA terrorism... you may know more about the issues associated with the name of the Republic & how that relates to turmoil in Northern Ireland.
Using "Erin" versus "Eire" would actually be more recognizable to your average guest and bypass the issues above. My preference would be for Cath na hÉireann/Battle of Ireland.
As for the anachronisms, no the average guest probably doesn't care, especially if they are used to Cedar Fair/Six Flags theming. Those on this site however--Tempesto's stunt bike theme and InavdR's Viking/Canada mix were definitely debated a bit...
I personally have appreciated the park's prior efforts to create an immersive and somewhat historically-inspired environment that drives an appreciation for the culture of the hamlets--not just using amusement names as cheap brands for marketing. It's what has set BGW (and places like Epcot World Showcase) apart from glorified amusement parks set on a field of asphalt--such as our neighbor up in Doswell.
Right you are... hence, somewhat historically-inspired.
A ham-handed attempt (and spot on with "tone deaf" at times), but at least an attempt, versus what we see at other parks.
I have my own issues with Killarney, but at least the park hadn't waded into 20th century Irish independence issues with them...
warfelg said:
Admittedly, increasingly few. How many could even find Ireland on a map? I have a feeling it is more age-dependent. If you remember IRA terrorism... you may know more about the issues associated with the name of the Republic & how that relates to turmoil in Northern Ireland.
Using "Erin" versus "Eire" would actually be more recognizable to your average guest and bypass the issues above. My preference would be for Cath na hÉireann/Battle of Ireland.
As for the anachronisms, no the average guest probably doesn't care, especially if they are used to Cedar Fair/Six Flags theming. Those on this site however--Tempesto's stunt bike theme and InavdR's Viking/Canada mix were definitely debated a bit...
I personally have appreciated the park's prior efforts to create an immersive and somewhat historically-inspired environment that drives an appreciation for the culture of the hamlets--not just using amusement names as cheap brands for marketing. It's what has set BGW (and places like Epcot World Showcase) apart from glorified amusement parks set on a field of asphalt--such as our neighbor up in Doswell.
Nicole said:
Right you are... hence, somewhat historically-inspired.
A ham-handed attempt (and spot on with "tone deaf" at times), but at least an attempt, versus what we see at other parks.
I have my own issues with Killarney, but at least the park hadn't waded into 20th century Irish independence issues with them...
RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
Just my $.02 in the end is I think you're putting too much into the name without hearing what goes with it.
I, and hopefully others, have seen enough times where the trademark filings for a ride get's bashed, then when the whole story is revealed and the ride with the name is out there it comes together and doesn't seem as bad.
Just my $.02 in the end is I think you're putting too much into the name without hearing what goes with it.
I, and hopefully others, have seen enough times where the trademark filings for a ride get's bashed, then when the whole story is revealed and the ride with the name is out there it comes together and doesn't seem as bad.
RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
I've readily admitted that what I'm pointing out will be likely lost on the average guest. I'm merely trying to point out that words have meanings and history that I don't think the park dug much into. The name "Eire" itself links it to the controversy however, so no backstory is going to mitigate it...
This is not unlike the debate of "the west bank" versus "Palestine," "Judea/Samaria" versus "occupied territory," etc. If it were in Europe, would the park be wise to name something "the battle of Palestine" trying to invoke some biblical-era theme? Of course not. Too much recent history and baggage. This is actually a much more recognizable analog, as the controversy still is raw. Whether Palestine refers to just the "occupied territory" upon which some wish to establish a state, or something larger, is not clear cut, depending on whom you ask.
I've readily admitted that what I'm pointing out will be likely lost on the average guest. I'm merely trying to point out that words have meanings and history that I don't think the park dug much into. The name "Eire" itself links it to the controversy however, so no backstory is going to mitigate it...
This is not unlike the debate of "the west bank" versus "Palestine," "Judea/Samaria" versus "occupied territory," etc. If it were in Europe, would the park be wise to name something "the battle of Palestine" trying to invoke some biblical-era theme? Of course not. Too much recent history and baggage. This is actually a much more recognizable analog, as the controversy still is raw. Whether Palestine refers to just the "occupied territory" upon which some wish to establish a state, or something larger, is not clear cut, depending on whom you ask.
RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
It's Busch. They'll just take an English word and "Irish-ize" it. Welcome to O'Virtual Reality.
It's Busch. They'll just take an English word and "Irish-ize" it. Welcome to O'Virtual Reality.
RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
Another battle-themed ride? Seems like we just had one of those.
Another battle-themed ride? Seems like we just had one of those.
RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
I still feel kind of dumb saying "Verbolten", "Die Autobahn" (wrong article word), or almost any attraction in Germany aside from Der Whirbelwind. Still, I can laugh at it because the German language, although still very strict in spelling and grammar, is notorious for word combinations that are acceptable, yet equally as ridiculous.
The difference that I see here is that it's more than a simple spelling error (deliberate or not). It has a different meaning, and that meaning doesn't sit well with me. Heck, I actually have cousins in Germany who think the names "DarKastle" and "Verbolten" are clever since they don't really mean anything, yet they make sense to English speakers.
Overall, it's probably an oversight, but they should fix it since the pun no longer fits with the theme they are trying to convey.
I still feel kind of dumb saying "Verbolten", "Die Autobahn" (wrong article word), or almost any attraction in Germany aside from Der Whirbelwind. Still, I can laugh at it because the German language, although still very strict in spelling and grammar, is notorious for word combinations that are acceptable, yet equally as ridiculous.
The difference that I see here is that it's more than a simple spelling error (deliberate or not). It has a different meaning, and that meaning doesn't sit well with me. Heck, I actually have cousins in Germany who think the names "DarKastle" and "Verbolten" are clever since they don't really mean anything, yet they make sense to English speakers.
Overall, it's probably an oversight, but they should fix it since the pun no longer fits with the theme they are trying to convey.
RE: Project 2018: Virtual Reality Europe in the Air Replacement
I truly hope not.
Lord Robert said:
I truly hope not.
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