Dominion Disturbances

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Well anyway guys, Fox news or not. Arguing with another over an ignorant comment is unimportant considering the fact that regardless of reporting differences (if any), our park is having to go through this. It’s really sad that something supposed to be fun is getting ruining by people who don’t know how to act. Fighting belongs in the parking lot at the Burger King across the street, just for christ sake stop fighting in the damn park as if there isn’t children and experiences to ruin all around. All jokes aside, why would KD invest in this event when problems such as this are just getting worse each year. Less fog… brighter lights… higher security… crappy past couple new houses… chaperone rules set in place. All of these listed things correlate to 2019 or 2021 (I can’t remember what year it was), when a major fight broke out and each year the incidents have just increased. It’s a very very sad ordeal and if an event like Haunt incites behavior such as this then KD’s going to get to the point where they eventually won’t invest in it. Lord knows Winterfest could use more expenses… and you never see someone clocking another human in the face in the petting zoo or ice skating rink at that event. Unfortunately, I’m intelligent enough to brainstorm the problem but not intelligent enough to think of fixes to to it. Hopefully it works itself out!
 
These parks really should evaluate WHO they want to atttract. While these horror events draw large crowds, they draw this type of customer.

I question how great of a business decision these horror events are overall. They get big crowds but when it brings in this type of customer, well, heathens probably aren’t big spenders. Incidents like this generate bad reputation and chase off good customers all year round.



I personally avoid the horror events. Dollywood provides a great alternative this time of year while having great night time atmosphere without the gore. Plus it’s available every day of the week.
 
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The issue is always that the "elements" who are least desirable as guests are generally the ones who spend the most money. I've seen the same thing working in theme parks and movie theaters-- the events that require extra security because they attract young, rowdy crowds also see higher per capita spending. They are people who literally throw money away on games, spend big money on food and beverages, buy extras, etc.

Yes, the parks could go the Dollywood route and have a Hobby Lobby non-Halloween "harvest festival" style event, but Halloween geared towards teens/young adults makes more money and is the same crowd that rides big coasters. All the parks are doing the "family friendly" route during the day already.

Once again as I said in another post, I think the real solution here is make the hard core Halloween events at night a separate ticket to pay for the extra security, etc. as well as weed out the families who were there for happyween during the day from those who want scaryween at night. You need to make sure those things are separate events so you don't have the "rougher" crowd spoiling things with the families in daylight, and kids who shouldn't be at the event at night with parents complaining their little darlings are too scared.
 
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I mean what you are suggesting happened last year and the park reverted the change for a reason.
I question how great of a business decision these horror events are overall. They get big crowds but when it brings in this type of customer, well, heathens probably aren’t big spenders. Incidents like this generate bad reputation and chase off good customers all year round.
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I go to haunt every year with a big group of friends who only go for haunt. They spend a fair amount on food. funnel cake, boardwalk fries, a full meal somewhere. They spend money. While they aren't the biggest "thoosies" like some on this board, they enjoy the atmosphere and mazes.
 
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Blauer said:
These parks really should evaluate WHO they want to atttract. While these horror events draw large crowds, they draw this type of customer.

I question how great of a business decision these horror events are overall. They get big crowds but when it brings in this type of customer, well, heathens probably aren’t big spenders. Incidents like this generate bad reputation and chase off good customers all year round.



I personally avoid the horror events. Dollywood provides a great alternative this time of year while having great night time atmosphere without the gore. Plus it’s available every day of the week.
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They're not going to ditch their most profitable event. This is the silliest suggestion I've seen on here in years - It's so bad I almost think you're trolling. "I don't like it, so they should cancel it" is a really bad take.
 
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Blauer said:
I question how great of a business decision these horror events are overall. They get big crowds but when it brings in this type of customer, well, heathens probably aren’t big spenders.
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What does religion even have to do with this argument? I'm not against people arguing the validity of these events, but just because you have a different faith doesn't mean everyone else has to abstain from this event to avoid offending your beliefs. I mean even I have faith, but I still participate and enjoy these events.
 
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The big spenders that can be problematic for a park are those buying a lot of high margin alcohol and then causing problems. It seems unlikely that the teens causing trouble at Haunt are spending a lot, and more likely are causing other losses to the park through theft or damage. I just can't see where these trouble making teens are a desirable customer base for the park, whereas the other 95% of their customers are far more valuable.
 
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rswashdc said:
I just can't see where these trouble making teens are a desirable customer base for the park, whereas the other 95% of their customers are far more valuable.
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The teens aren't necessarily the target audience for Haunt anyways. Haunt isn't just some event for exclusively teens. Yes, they make up a decent portion of the Haunt attendance, but something like Haunt shouldn't just be shut down cause "those pesky teenagers going around ruining everything". Ban the ones causing issues, but other than that leave the ones who aren't causing problems alone please.
 
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There are a lot of great points in this thread regarding the safety of KD Haunts. But I just wanted to take a moment to illustrate my personal thoughts on how Saturday's event was hopefully a rare-ish type happening:
  • Haunt on Saturday evening drew a very large crowd. I'm not sure of the total number, but even Friday's + Sunday's numbers combined would not even come remotely close to Saturday's attendance.
  • Saturday evening brought very heavy rains through Doswell. The rains forced closure of (for a period) all rides, scare zones, and some mazes; thus limiting entertainment options for people.
  • The large crowds took shelter, for extended periods, in the limited covered places available throughout the park - noting of course that the KD Theater is still closed; unlike parks such as BGW, which vastly excel at giving patrons indoor show options during bad weather.
  • From some reports, it's possible upwards of 300 people may have taken shelter in KD's Arcade. If that's the case, that is an awful lot of people in that building, and I can easily see how fight(s) subsequently broke out.

So back to my point... between heavy rains; lack of indoor entertainment venues (which granted will not change anytime soon); and large crowds packed together, could potentially all be the combining factors contributing to Saturday's fiasco.

So can this same scenario happen again - absolutely yes.

But if - and again, reiterating the "if", as I don't think any of us know for certain - Saturday's event originally escalated at the Arcade, I would certainly hope that KD's security team is actively considering, that on rainy days, posting security at both entrances to the Arcade, and actively limiting how many people are allowed entry at a single time, given that:
  • The Arcade is the largest (currently) operating indoor "entertainment" venue at the park, when rides like Boo Blasters and FoF close during bad weather.
  • The Arcade here in 2024, with it's recent major renovation over the off-season is now the nicest that location has looked in over 3 decades (in my opinion); so though small, is still a contributing visitor 'draw' factor.
  • As the Arcade's entrance sits just steps from the exit of one of the park's more popular scare mazes (Trick or Treat), the Arcade has a tendency to draw a lot of (Haunt) traffic during downpours.
 
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WrierSiamang152 said:
What does religion even have to do with this argument? I'm not against people arguing the validity of these events, but just because you have a different faith doesn't mean everyone else has to abstain from this event to avoid offending your beliefs. I mean even I have faith, but I still participate and enjoy these events.
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Heathen not a religious reference. To me, it means someone who doesn’t know how to act decently in public.

GAcoaster said:
The issue is always that the "elements" who are least desirable as guests are generally the ones who spend the most money. I've seen the same thing working in theme parks and movie theaters-- the events that require extra security because they attract young, rowdy crowds also see higher per capita spending. They are people who literally throw money away on games, spend big money on food and beverages, buy extras, etc.

Yes, the parks could go the Dollywood route and have a Hobby Lobby non-Halloween "harvest festival" style event, but Halloween geared towards teens/young adults makes more money and is the same crowd that rides big coasters. All the parks are doing the "family friendly" route during the day already.

Once again as I said in another post, I think the real solution here is make the hard core Halloween events at night a separate ticket to pay for the extra security, etc. as well as weed out the families who were there for happyween during the day from those who want scaryween at night. You need to make sure those things are separate events so you don't have the "rougher" crowd spoiling things with the families in daylight, and kids who shouldn't be at the event at night with parents complaining their little darlings are too scared.
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And there you have it. Making money anyway possible trashing the parks reputation in the meantime. It’s the same reason they’ve gone to sell alcohol in the parks. They are so in debt and desperate for money that they choose to make money anyway possible instead of providing a good family atmosphere.

And I highly doubt these are the biggest spenders because they are the lowest income group because of their age

Dollywood Halloween event is far from a hobby lobby event. It is full of lights and eerie atmosphere. Not as many as the Christmas event, but there are plenty.

Riboflavenus said:
They're not going to ditch their most profitable event. This is the silliest suggestion I've seen on here in years - It's so bad I almost think you're trolling. "I don't like it, so they should cancel it" is a really bad take.
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I seriously doubt if this is their most profitable event, given it only lasts about 18 days and it tends to regurgitate a lot of season passholders that don’t even pay to get into the park. It also requires a higher payroll with all of the additional scare employees


I’m sure it’s profitable, but the big crowd reflected the limited days of the event.

outhikn said:
There are a lot of great points in this thread regarding the safety of KD Haunts. But I just wanted to take a moment to illustrate my personal thoughts on how Saturday's event was hopefully a rare-ish type happening:
  • Haunt on Saturday evening drew a very large crowd. I'm not sure of the total number, but even Friday's + Sunday's numbers combined would not even come remotely close to Saturday's attendance.
  • Saturday evening brought very heavy rains through Doswell. The rains forced closure of (for a period) all rides, scare zones, and some mazes; thus limiting entertainment options for people.
  • The large crowds took shelter, for extended periods, in the limited covered places available throughout the park - noting of course that the KD Theater is still closed; unlike parks such as BGW, which vastly excel at giving patrons indoor show options during bad weather.
  • From some reports, it's possible upwards of 300 people may have taken shelter in KD's Arcade. If that's the case, that is an awful lot of people in that building, and I can easily see how fight(s) subsequently broke out.

So back to my point... between heavy rains; lack of indoor entertainment venues (which granted will not change anytime soon); and large crowds packed together, could potentially all be the combining factors contributing to Saturday's fiasco.

So can this same scenario happen again - absolutely yes.

But if - and again, reiterating the "if", as I don't think any of us know for certain - Saturday's event originally escalated at the Arcade, I would certainly hope that KD's security team is actively considering, that on rainy days, posting security at both entrances to the Arcade, and actively limiting how many people are allowed entry at a single time, given that:
  • The Arcade is the largest (currently) operating indoor "entertainment" venue at the park, when rides like Boo Blasters and FoF close during bad weather.
  • The Arcade here in 2024, with it's recent major renovation over the off-season is now the nicest that location has looked in over 3 decades (in my opinion); so though small, is still a contributing visitor 'draw' factor.
  • As the Arcade's entrance sits just steps from the exit of one of the park's more popular scare mazes (Trick or Treat), the Arcade has a tendency to draw a lot of (Haunt) traffic during downpours.
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Part of the issue is the park does not have the infrastructure to handle these crowds.
 
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mtpelepele said:
Had to show ignored messages to see what this one was about, and as much as I hate having to stand up for someone who complains as much as Blauer, his definition of "heathen" is pretty much right there in the definition you posted. I do believe he was using heathen in a non-religious, informal manner. I use it that way all the time.
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I would like to apologize for the misunderstanding, I took it the wrong way. That makes much more sense in this context.

Blauer said:
Heathen not a religious reference. To me, it means someone who doesn’t know how to act decently in public.
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Ok, that makes much more sense. I misread the context of the situation.
 
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I always remember that Great Adventure was the first park in the world to install metal detectors at the gate, Kings Dominion was the second just a year later…
 
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