COVID-19’s Impacts on BGW

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Mar 16, 2016
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I agree that the governor's orders seem inconsistent. I would argue (with infectious disease expert opinions to back me up) that gyms, for example, are far less safe than theme parks. There's frequent full-body contact with equipment, less personnel to enforce sanitation and social distancing, tighter spaces, and the entire thing is of course indoors.

I get the sense on here that some people don't like it when Northam's decisions are questioned. I for one think it's totally fair to discuss whether his policies could be better - what politician is actually 100% correct on every action they take?
I disagree some with the gym take there. I’m a member of Orange Theory and Golds. At OT classes are normally 36, they are doing 12 at a time, every 3rd machine, and mandatory wipe downs. At Golds you need to schedule a time to move in a group on 5-6 with a trainer who makes sure you wipe down equipment for lifting, and book times at half hours for cardio. They are operating at 25% max capacity.
 

Nicole

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Jul 22, 2013
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I can’t speak for anyone else, but I am not at all motivated by some need to defend the Governor at all costs. What I do believe, however, is that many people are making a lot of assertions and promoting their own analysis without insight into the government’s actual discussions or access to all of the data. I don’t see how we can know why or how Virginia’s process has been developed.

A lot of comments seem to be driven by some combination of these belief systems:
- Governments are all inept and anyone can make better decisions than elected officials and career bureaucrats.
- The is no real value in empirical data an/or expertise; personal opinions are just as valid.
- The priorities of one individual are all that matter and any decision that interferes with that person getting what he/she wants must be condemned.

I am not saying that describes everyone. I do contend, however, that several members here seem to think this way.
 
Mar 16, 2016
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This would strike me as odd given that CF sued Ohio in order to open sooner.
As far as I’m aware Ohio did not have an advisory committee to the governor for building guidelines. Virginia does and a KD representative was on that committee. So doesn’t strike me as too odd.
 

Joe

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As far as I’m aware Ohio did not have an advisory committee to the governor for building guidelines. Virginia does and a KD representative was on that committee. So doesn’t strike me as too odd.
I don’t see how one disproves the other. KD having representation on Northam’s task force simply means that they at least have a direct voice with the governor. CF’s lawsuit against Ohio demonstrates that they want to open at least some of their parks as soon as possible. KD’s representation on the task force doesn’t negate that at all.

Now, it could be the case that CF has different desires for their Ohio parks versus for KD. But that has nothing to do with Northam’s task force.
 
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Mar 16, 2016
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I don’t see how one disproves the other. KD having representation on Northam’s task force simply means that they at least have a direct voice with the governor. CF’s lawsuit against Ohio demonstrates that they want to open at least some of their parks as soon as possible. KD’s representation on the task force doesn’t negate that at all.

Now, it could be the case that CF has different desires for their Ohio parks versus for KD. But that has nothing to do with Northam’s task force.
CF’s Ohio lawsuit was over the fact that there were no indication. It’s fair to assume with a committee in VA and KD having a role in that means they have an idea what it’s going to take to reopen.
 

Joe

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CF’s Ohio lawsuit was over the fact that there were no indication. It’s fair to assume with a committee in VA and KD having a role in that means they have an idea what it’s going to take to reopen.
Zimmerman’s letter openly called on the Ohio government to allow them to open their parks. I don’t know how there could be a clearer indication of CF’s desire to reopen their Ohio parks than that.
 
Nov 30, 2018
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CF’s Ohio lawsuit was over the fact that there were no indication. It’s fair to assume with a committee in VA and KD having a role in that means they have an idea what it’s going to take to reopen.
IME being on both sides of those task forces and committees, much of the time participants have little insight into the actual decisions being made. It doesn’t mean participant‘s inputs aren’t valuable and taken into consideration, but the idea they have insider information is simply not common. In this case if KD got insider info about reopening schedules and decision points ahead of BGW, KD would be getting a competitive advantage that BGW could seriously make a stink about.
 
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Apr 16, 2017
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A lot of comments seem to be driven by some combination of these belief systems:
- Governments are all inept and anyone can make better decisions than elected officials and career bureaucrats.
- The is no real value in empirical data an/or expertise; personal opinions are just as valid.
- The priorities of one individual are all that matter and any decision that interferes with that person getting what he/she wants must be condemned.
Where is your research and data? Don't forget sources!
 
Feb 3, 2019
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I don't think anyone should believe this, but it's interesting that someone out there is buying ads and including an assumption about an opening date for BGW:

Screenshot_20200617-232842.png
 
Mar 16, 2016
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So a couple of things to respond to regarding the responses to my comment of the differences between Ohio reopening parks and Virginia opening parks:

1 - The continual disregard for involvement by businesses in one state vs another is astounding to me. Especially when you go as far as saying the one park not on the committee should sue for competitive disadvantages. Are you kidding? Lets get every single company in VA on that committee then if that's your feeling. I continually see lawsuits brought up as answers to so many things. Really?

2 - Comparing an amusement park to a mall.....really? I really need to see the justification for this thinking. In a mall if an individual store wants to close due to manager/chain policies, have restrictions on shopping (Crate and Barrel was doing appointment shopping only), have restricted hours, having their own guidelines on entry to their store. A park, although it has a lot of things to do, is more akin to a gym. There's plenty of things to use and plenty of things that are different, but ultimately its owned by one entity. Meaning it's harder for each individual spot to have it's own rules regarding standards to shop. You aren't going to have one set of rules for a shop in France, another in Germany, and a third in Ireland. It's going to be flat across the board.

3 - Part of the Cedar fair lawsuit cited the fact that indoor entertainment facilities in Ohio were able to open, along with zoo's and museums were able to open if they followed retail guidelines. In Ohio when these things reopened it allowed all entertainment venues except amusement parks to reopen. We haven't seen that same level of exemptions for businesses in Virginia.

Like I've pointed to a few times and get's these (IMO) flimsy responses....businesses in VA are involved in helping reopen the state. They are giving advice of what to do. Hence the lack of a lawsuit in Virginia. Heck, I don't think I've seen anything of any other state having a lawsuit from amusement parks due to the reopening plans.

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Edit:
Wasn’t sure if I should do this as an edit or new post but chose this route:

As I dug deeper into the Ohio issue, part of the lawsuit was about the lack of communication from the administration on reopening. The fact that those openings were a bit of a sudden announcement.

Virginia has been VERY consistent about reopening and NOT having parks in Phase One or Two is NOT a problem. Look at issues going on in PA right now. Look at states that fully reopened and are seeing record single day case growth.

Some posters want to talk a lot about how we as public people don’t need to know everything (like the park capacity argument) but insist that because we don’t know what’s going on here that they know what should happen.

In fact I would say that since the parent companies and the parks themselves AREN’T filing lawsuits means they KNOW what the plan is and are agreeing on not doing anything that tips the plan.
 
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Joe

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So a couple of things to respond to regarding the responses to my comment of the differences between Ohio reopening parks and Virginia opening parks:

1 - The continual disregard for involvement by businesses in one state vs another is astounding to me. Especially when you go as far as saying the one park not on the committee should sue for competitive disadvantages. Are you kidding? Lets get every single company in VA on that committee then if that's your feeling. I continually see lawsuits brought up as answers to so many things. Really?

2 - Comparing an amusement park to a mall.....really? I really need to see the justification for this thinking. In a mall if an individual store wants to close due to manager/chain policies, have restrictions on shopping (Crate and Barrel was doing appointment shopping only), have restricted hours, having their own guidelines on entry to their store. A park, although it has a lot of things to do, is more akin to a gym. There's plenty of things to use and plenty of things that are different, but ultimately its owned by one entity. Meaning it's harder for each individual spot to have it's own rules regarding standards to shop. You aren't going to have one set of rules for a shop in France, another in Germany, and a third in Ireland. It's going to be flat across the board.

3 - Part of the Cedar fair lawsuit cited the fact that indoor entertainment facilities in Ohio were able to open, along with zoo's and museums were able to open if they followed retail guidelines. In Ohio when these things reopened it allowed all entertainment venues except amusement parks to reopen. We haven't seen that same level of exemptions for businesses in Virginia.

Like I've pointed to a few times and get's these (IMO) flimsy responses....businesses in VA are involved in helping reopen the state. They are giving advice of what to do. Hence the lack of a lawsuit in Virginia. Heck, I don't think I've seen anything of any other state having a lawsuit from amusement parks due to the reopening plans.

——————————-

Edit:
Wasn’t sure if I should do this as an edit or new post but chose this route:

As I dug deeper into the Ohio issue, part of the lawsuit was about the lack of communication from the administration on reopening. The fact that those openings were a bit of a sudden announcement.

Virginia has been VERY consistent about reopening and NOT having parks in Phase One or Two is NOT a problem. Look at issues going on in PA right now. Look at states that fully reopened and are seeing record single day case growth.

Some posters want to talk a lot about how we as public people don’t need to know everything (like the park capacity argument) but insist that because we don’t know what’s going on here that they know what should happen.

In fact I would say that since the parent companies and the parks themselves AREN’T filing lawsuits means they KNOW what the plan is and are agreeing on not doing anything that tips the plan.
Is this directed at me? My posts were in response to @Gavin’s claim that maybe the VA parks don’t want to open - which I believe is not totally true.

At least in regard to my posts, you completely misunderstood the significance being drawn from CF’s lawsuit. Of course the actual reason for them suing Ohio was over their governor’s inconsistent policies. But the lawsuit, along with Zimmerman’s open letter, nonetheless demonstrates CF’s desire to reopen some of their parks. The actual details of the suit don’t negate that fact in the slightest.
 
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Mar 16, 2016
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Parts of my post were directed to posts of mine you quoted @Joe

Yes I believe that the VA parks want to open. Part of what I’ve been trying to point out a few ways is the circumstances under which lawsuits were filed in Ohio don’t truly apply to what is going on in Virginia. Yes there’s a willingness to get open. But the lack of filing so far shows to me that they understand there is a plan and there is a framework in Virginia but we haven’t hit those points yet to allow it to happen. Plus, at least for me, I would have hesitation in trusting a company that is part of the solution to reopen that sues over not being able to reopen.
 
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