Concepts Think Tank
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^^-- I305 has better air than any B&M. The other problem with the next coaster being a woodie is they really aren't practical over a lake 
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.bill s said:^^-- I305 has better air than any B&M. The other problem with the next coaster being a woodie is they really aren't practical over a lake
I disagree. Massively. I305 has better forces than any B&M but not airtime. Fury’s airtime is so much better.
I also disagree. Having a restraint over my shoulder during airtime takes away from the experience in my opinion.
^^-- Then you're not paying attention, or even close. My comment was very cruelly provocative but the airtime on I306 is incredibly underrated. It has more sustained ejector airtime than probably every coaster in the world combined 20 years ago, and almost certainly more of it than every B&M in the world added together. That's not an opinion that's fact independent of whether you notice or not. I agree, the restraints do take away from it, but that's part of it having a lot more to offer than certain airtime machines; they're also far more comfortable. Yes I've ridden El Toro, Superman the Ride, and Skyrush, love them and hope to ride again, but I'd rather have I305 15 minutes down the road than any of them.
I really enjoy B&M floater air. It's KINKY. It causes a feeling in your stomach that even ejector air can't. It does have a disadvantage, unlike ejector, that it cannot occur in all seats of a normal length train. However, KD has nice pops of floater air in coasters all over the park (it even had some while standing, but all anyone did was complain...) as well as I305, a drop tower and frisbee, and of course TT is opening. The park simply has too many riches of airtime to really need a B&M hyper. They ought to pay close attention to airtime on the NEXT coaster, but if it goes over the lake I'd still prefer a break in the airtime madness long enough for a corkscrew over the water.
I really enjoy B&M floater air. It's KINKY. It causes a feeling in your stomach that even ejector air can't. It does have a disadvantage, unlike ejector, that it cannot occur in all seats of a normal length train. However, KD has nice pops of floater air in coasters all over the park (it even had some while standing, but all anyone did was complain...) as well as I305, a drop tower and frisbee, and of course TT is opening. The park simply has too many riches of airtime to really need a B&M hyper. They ought to pay close attention to airtime on the NEXT coaster, but if it goes over the lake I'd still prefer a break in the airtime madness long enough for a corkscrew over the water.
I think the problem with a GCI is that it would be a tough marketing sell. InvadR opened in Williamsburg just last year and the park is advertising Twisted Timbers as "wooden coaster." It's easy for us as enthusiasts to see that a family coaster and an RMC hybrid would be totally different from a major GCI, but to the general public, yet another wooden coaster might be seen as redundant.
Of course, this is the Concepts Think Tank, so ideas like a GCI don't have to be 100% practical. This is just the reason I don't agree that KD should get one.
Of course, this is the Concepts Think Tank, so ideas like a GCI don't have to be 100% practical. This is just the reason I don't agree that KD should get one.
I really feel as though a silky smooth B&M Hyper is the thing that KD can really use.
You got an inverted, a looper, a looping launched, a family launched, an arrow looper, a forceful beast, a hybrid, a classic out and back, and another classic style coaster. A glassy smooth airtime machine steel coaster is what this park could really use.
You got an inverted, a looper, a looping launched, a family launched, an arrow looper, a forceful beast, a hybrid, a classic out and back, and another classic style coaster. A glassy smooth airtime machine steel coaster is what this park could really use.
KD has always been and probably always will be, a research and development environment for experimentation in coaster popularity. Prototype coasters have always been a thing for them. King Kobra, avalanche, volcano, hypersonic, and now TT, were/are unique to this particular region and I've always commended them for that 'experimental' mentality.
MAZ said:
On the flip they do have a few that aren't so much. FOF is a clone, BS without it's effects is.......BS, Arrow looper, it's 2 woodies, and the transplant in Dominator. I don't think it has to be experimental. I think it could be something that you get a Hyper with 'experimental' elements in it.
bill s said:^^-- I305 has better air than any B&M. The other problem with the next coaster being a woodie is they really aren't practical over a lake
1. Invadr and Ravine Flyer II say hi.
2. AC blows I305 out of the water when it comes to airtime. What I305 is known for is positive Gs and the insane twists.
3. The next coaster will go in the Dino’s Alive spot.
Joe said:
Mystic Timbers was one of the best marketed coasters thanks to one theming gimmick. Let me preach again: a GCI would be a great fit because it’s something that families can ride and it looks twisty enough.
:shrug:
I rather that they just retrack Grizzly TBH than go for a GCI right now. Racer75, Twisted Timers and a retracked Grizzly would give you a great trio of Woodies.
A few ideas they can go at:
~Mid-Atlantic's first wing coaster
~First Hyper-Inverted full circuit coaster
~America's first Mack hyper coaster
If this idea is about the Dino's Alive area, you need something that makes a statement from I-95 as you pass by. I'm not sure seeing the top of a GCI does that. But a Hyper in one way or another continually poking above the tree line? That's an attention grabber.
It's one of two things that I really want this park to have. Something that makes a statement along I-95; and a coaster that interacts with the main gate/parking area.
I rather that they just retrack Grizzly TBH than go for a GCI right now. Racer75, Twisted Timers and a retracked Grizzly would give you a great trio of Woodies.
A few ideas they can go at:
~Mid-Atlantic's first wing coaster
~First Hyper-Inverted full circuit coaster
~America's first Mack hyper coaster
If this idea is about the Dino's Alive area, you need something that makes a statement from I-95 as you pass by. I'm not sure seeing the top of a GCI does that. But a Hyper in one way or another continually poking above the tree line? That's an attention grabber.
It's one of two things that I really want this park to have. Something that makes a statement along I-95; and a coaster that interacts with the main gate/parking area.
Personally I’ve been on 2 wing riders and loved them. Not every coaster needs to be a big forceful brute. I like wingriders because they seem to have elements flow together better than almost any other coaster I’ve been on. I also love the fact that each side is almost a completely different coaster.
And here you have the issues of hybrid coasters. I lean towards they are more woodie than steel. Ever been on one? Still feels quite woodie like. If you haven’t rode one you’ll soon find out.
And here you have the issues of hybrid coasters. I lean towards they are more woodie than steel. Ever been on one? Still feels quite woodie like. If you haven’t rode one you’ll soon find out.
Only /real/ coasters go above 250 feet and exceed 5 Gs. Anything else is just a flat.
Pretzel Kaiser said:
Why did I suggest a GCI then?
Wing rider is not a bad fit family wise but there are much better options. My biggest issues are that they takes up a lot of space and the restraints suck (plus the bigger ones are forceless). The ONLY way I could see it working is if it’s a launched wingrider like Thunderbird, which would give them a marketing advantage.
The 200 ft tall invert is an interesting concept but I’d rather they get something that can provide some sustaaimed airtime if they are going 200 ft tall.
The Mack hyper is my favorite option. It’s a happy medium between Appollo’s Chariot and Skyrush it seems. If they go 4 across it could be a good people eater too and it fits a hole that KD needs: a hyper.
I305 has true ejector airtime. It's not the best ejector, but the only other coaster at KD that ever had it was Hypersonic. No coaster at BGW has it except Griffin kinda, sorta. Apollo is full of beautiful floater air, love it, but ejector? Zero. It is a rare thing. It costs energy: ejector inherently cannot last as long as floater, given the same momentum and height to work with.
Preferences are one thing. However, to say that I305 does not excel in airtime is to ignore that it is actually in an elite class.
Now, there is one thing that does bug me a bit a about the B&M hypers I have ridden, although maybe the latest are starting to be different. Namely, the really great air is only in the very back row. Why don't they design them for perfect floater in row 6 instead of row 9? The decrease in air duration would be almost nothing. Rows 3 and 4 would be almost identical to row 6, row 5 would be close to what row 8 is now, and the ends of the train would get some slight ejector air.
As to a productive suggestion for a Concept, I think almost any park could use some kind of launch-boosted coaster. Instead of a combined block brake and trim brake that many coasters have, it would use 1 or more combined block brake and what might be called a trim launch, on the weak end of possibilities, or a boost launch if stronger. The idea is to use launches to allow different pacing than the typical coaster progression from large and fast to small and slow, yet without the pacing-killer of a second lift. There are a few coasters that are doing something like this, although most smaller multi launch coasters use launches for theming purposes that are inventive but break the pacing, e.g. Backlot, Verbolten. KD could use this for a smooth coaster with good floater air and non-intimidating height.
The one empty niche I see at KD is a kind of Goldilocks coaster -- not too small, or too rough (or wooden), not too large, not too forceful, not go upside down, etc. It's not what *I* want, it just seems what they lack.
Preferences are one thing. However, to say that I305 does not excel in airtime is to ignore that it is actually in an elite class.
Now, there is one thing that does bug me a bit a about the B&M hypers I have ridden, although maybe the latest are starting to be different. Namely, the really great air is only in the very back row. Why don't they design them for perfect floater in row 6 instead of row 9? The decrease in air duration would be almost nothing. Rows 3 and 4 would be almost identical to row 6, row 5 would be close to what row 8 is now, and the ends of the train would get some slight ejector air.
As to a productive suggestion for a Concept, I think almost any park could use some kind of launch-boosted coaster. Instead of a combined block brake and trim brake that many coasters have, it would use 1 or more combined block brake and what might be called a trim launch, on the weak end of possibilities, or a boost launch if stronger. The idea is to use launches to allow different pacing than the typical coaster progression from large and fast to small and slow, yet without the pacing-killer of a second lift. There are a few coasters that are doing something like this, although most smaller multi launch coasters use launches for theming purposes that are inventive but break the pacing, e.g. Backlot, Verbolten. KD could use this for a smooth coaster with good floater air and non-intimidating height.
The one empty niche I see at KD is a kind of Goldilocks coaster -- not too small, or too rough (or wooden), not too large, not too forceful, not go upside down, etc. It's not what *I* want, it just seems what they lack.
Those are great examples along with Taron ... I just watched the video of Maverick again and the stop isn't too bad. But it doesn't have to be limited to rides that big and fast. Time Traveler looks kind of even closer, starting into a vertical without any lift or launch at all and making it up later is really cool.... What I keep picturing would start off slow and dramatic and build all the way to the end. I had hoped that the Big Bad Wolf replacement would be more like this. The second, larger lift of BBW did cause a great anticipation and suspense by the top, but where you came to a stop and started up the lift -- UGH! It was like you're watching a great movie and suddenly that buffering symbol pops up on the screen. I'd rather see suspense designed into a ride while it still being continuous. Longer rides with grace instead of having to cram it in within the limits of a single lift and gravity.