Existing Transport Ride Busch Gardens Railway

Login or Register to Hide This Ad

ControlsEE

I probably should be working...
Oct 2, 2018
704
1,424
93
The more I look at Google Maps the more I agree that they could potentially swap the catering area out with a train station based solely on the minimal modifications that would be needed for the existing layout.

However, if they were to keep the catering area in some form, they'd either have to move it to where it now takes up a good chunk of FHP and it becomes a longer distance to get people and supplies to, or move it somewhere else in the park (depending on the existing space utilization plans, maybe add some tables in the DK building?).

The question is the incline of the tracks where the catering area is vs further back towards the boneyard road and if it's workable with all trains?
The issue with putting a station there is that it's literally 150 yards from caribou. Would just be better to add a path between the festhaus, behind DK and through Invadr
 

Jonesta6

Glumble
Feb 14, 2019
2,627
2,077
113
I guess I misread my maps distance check, I had it at about 1,500 give or take.
 

ControlsEE

I probably should be working...
Oct 2, 2018
704
1,424
93
I guess I misread my maps distance check, I had it at about 1,500 give or take.
I'm probably exaggerating, but the point remains that just as the train gets to full speed, it will have to start slowing back down for caribou.
 

Jonesta6

Glumble
Feb 14, 2019
2,627
2,077
113
I'm probably exaggerating, but the point remains that just as the train gets to full speed, it will have to start slowing back down for caribou.
Oh, I don't forsee the park adding a new station to the line, just saying if they were to do so the catering area would make the most sense vs closer to the tressel.
 

warfelg

Advisory Panel
Mar 16, 2016
6,061
9,649
113
Honestly I don't see the need. Train to Caribou, sky ride to Germany. I've done that a bunch of times from the Scotland station.
 
Oct 7, 2011
1,430
4,454
113
The issue with putting a station there is that it's literally 150 yards from caribou. Would just be better to add a path between the festhaus, behind DK and through Invadr
It's 1,500 feet, which is the same distance as Tweedside to Festa, believe it or not.

But it's really the walking distance that matters to a guest, and it is absolutely a hike between the Festhaus and Invadr if you use only guest-accessible paths.

Since I'm posting in the proper thread now: I have no idea precisely what this does to the timing of the arrival of trains at a given station, except that it certainly guarantees longer average wait times for a given number of trains on the circuit, assuming they always stop at all four stations.

On the other hand -- if a guest would find it convenient to take the train either to or from a Festhaus station just once during a visit, that might go a long way to offset the inconvenience of waiting a bit longer for trains to arrive.

And there's the expense, signaling, everything else that has been discussed here. I'm just thinking out loud.

I definitely would make very frequent use of the train from Tweedside to the Festhaus, if it were possible, rather than either walking or taking two legs of the skyride just to then cross the entirety of Oktoberfest with the first half being uphill. (Though maybe the park doesn't actually like that due to skipping basically everything in the park to get there...?)

Guests with mobility issues or small kids in tow probably would benefit most of all.

Anyway.
 

Jonesta6

Glumble
Feb 14, 2019
2,627
2,077
113
Let's see, a direct access to the new ride and, assuming they figured out how to work a shop or two plus F&B (Festhaus Cafe with to-go sandwiches and beverages maybe?) they could spin the idea as revenue generating since you're not able to bypass money makers when using that stop. However, I'd be curious to see what that does to crowd flow in the area considering how Caribou sometimes overflows waiting to get on the platform.
 

warfelg

Advisory Panel
Mar 16, 2016
6,061
9,649
113
But it's really the walking distance that matters to a guest, and it is absolutely a hike between the Festhaus and Invadr if you use only guest-accessible paths.
Really random, but there are city planning studies done on time for transit vs walking and what people would be willing to do. I would love to do this study for people riding vs walking Tweedside -> Festa and the time it takes. Usually if the wait is longer than the walk, more people would be willing to walk is what the study concluded.
 
  • Like
Reactions: halfabee

Jonesta6

Glumble
Feb 14, 2019
2,627
2,077
113
Really random, but there are city planning studies done on time for transit vs walking and what people would be willing to do. I would love to do this study for people riding vs walking Tweedside -> Festa and the time it takes. Usually if the wait is longer than the walk, more people would be willing to walk is what the study concluded.
But is that usually determined by human nature as a whole, or could the fact you're in a theme park undermine the thought process?

Thinking in normal operations, what is the average wait time guests typically expect there to be plus how long does a typical trip take vs their expectations for just walking between the given stops? And then actually observing guests, how close do their perceptions mirror reality?
 

warfelg

Advisory Panel
Mar 16, 2016
6,061
9,649
113
But is that usually determined by human nature as a whole, or could the fact you're in a theme park undermine the thought process?

Thinking in normal operations, what is the average wait time guests typically expect there to be plus how long does a typical trip take vs their expectations for just walking between the given stops? And then actually observing guests, how close do their perceptions mirror reality?
Typically in these studies they find circumstances don't change behavior. I can point to these studies are reflected in every day life. Mall design is partially based in this. Bus lines, train lines, subway lines. Heck even store layouts are all based in these studies of human movement.

Lets take this example:
Bus stations tend to be 1.5 miles apart on the same line (IIRC). Reasoning? These studies have concluded that people will wait up to 10 minutes to go that distance. But when you are inside that distance, the human perception is that walking would be quicker.

So if you scale that down to BGW size:
It takes you 3 minutes to walk from Tweedside to Festa, or you can stand/wait 5 minutes for the train, 3 minutes for it to leave, and get to Festa in 1 minute, 2 minutes to get off.

Now think of Festa -> Germany. Wait 5ish minutes for the train, 3 for it to leave, 2 minutes to Germany, 2 minutes to get off vs the 6 plus uphill to get from Festa to Germany, those two stops would be high use.

But then Germany -> Carabu would see lower usage because of the same Tweedside to Festa issue of the wait and time to transit and get off might be more than walking.

Of course this doesn't account for the percent of people that don't care and are looking for a break from walking. But that's usually accounted for in these studies. Basically if you look at anything in terms of human movement, geographers have studied it and it's why things are designed the way they are. What's funny is you can see this in action on just about any college campus: Go to the quad and see how many dirt paths criss cross the grass to see how humans prefer the quickest mode of A-B rather than the path provided.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jonesta6

Jonesta6

Glumble
Feb 14, 2019
2,627
2,077
113
Typically in these studies they find circumstances don't change behavior. I can point to these studies are reflected in every day life. Mall design is partially based in this. Bus lines, train lines, subway lines. Heck even store layouts are all based in these studies of human movement.

Lets take this example:
Bus stations tend to be 1.5 miles apart on the same line (IIRC). Reasoning? These studies have concluded that people will wait up to 10 minutes to go that distance. But when you are inside that distance, the human perception is that walking would be quicker.

So if you scale that down to BGW size:
It takes you 3 minutes to walk from Tweedside to Festa, or you can stand/wait 5 minutes for the train, 3 minutes for it to leave, and get to Festa in 1 minute, 2 minutes to get off.

Now think of Festa -> Germany. Wait 5ish minutes for the train, 3 for it to leave, 2 minutes to Germany, 2 minutes to get off vs the 6 plus uphill to get from Festa to Germany, those two stops would be high use.

But then Germany -> Carabu would see lower usage because of the same Tweedside to Festa issue of the wait and time to transit and get off might be more than walking.

Of course this doesn't account for the percent of people that don't care and are looking for a break from walking. But that's usually accounted for in these studies. Basically if you look at anything in terms of human movement, geographers have studied it and it's why things are designed the way they are. What's funny is you can see this in action on just about any college campus: Go to the quad and see how many dirt paths criss cross the grass to see how humans prefer the quickest mode of A-B rather than the path provided.
That makes a lot of sense - I guess I was thinking more like Action Park where the onus of safety is as much on the guest as it was the park in the how the attractions were conceived and constructed; problem was that guests generally thought they were in an insulated world inside an amusement park that nothing bad could happen to them.

Similar logic here - the realities of time and distance are extremely distorted so that for any able-bodied individual the train is almost never the most optimal mode of transportation yet it still remains a popular option.
 
Aug 22, 2016
83
139
33
I have been waiting for a Festhaus station since I started going to BG in 2015. Unless I’m booking it to a show, I’d wait quite awhile not to have to slog through the park, especially in the dog days of summer.
 

Mushroom

Getting aHEAD of myself
Advisory Panel
Feb 12, 2011
5,670
15,951
113
The main reason I want a fourth station is because of how asymmetrically the current stations are laid out. Currently it's like this:

Caribou---Tweedside--Festa--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Caribou
 

ControlsEE

I probably should be working...
Oct 2, 2018
704
1,424
93
The main reason I want a fourth station is because of how asymmetrically the current stations are laid out. Currently it's like this:

Caribou---Tweedside--Festa--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Caribou
So I looked this up earlier. The railroad has about 1.5 miles of track. Divided evenly, that's just under 2,000 ft between stations. If Caribou was the starting point, Tweedside is roughly where it should be, Festa should be alongside the Rapids lift/HOS maze, and a Germany station should be about where the DF maintenance bay is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pink

warfelg

Advisory Panel
Mar 16, 2016
6,061
9,649
113
If they added the stop I personally would be less likely to ride. My most frequently used leg is festa to carabu. I’ve never done carabu to tweedside.
 

AIR

Busch Gardens needs a Flying Coaster
Jul 7, 2017
125
490
63
Williamsburg VA
If they added another stop, I would be less likely to ride as well. I personally like the long stretch from Festa Italia to New France. They're two polar opposite parts of the park and I like that the train can take you there in one step.

I also like being on the train for awhile as a ride, the stops being honestly a headache and boring. I like to take the train around the park a full time before actually getting off at the stop I feel like.
 
Login or Register to Hide This Ad