Busch Brawls

[Nicole]

Price is often a proxy for quality, and when you put yourself at the low end, it signals that you’re unsure of your value — or the value just isn’t there. Either can be alarming for prospective clients.

Why You Should Charge Clients More Than You Think You’re Worth

Setting your rates is one of the most stressful decisions professionals face. While you might worry about scaring off customers by overcharging, undervaluing yourself is equally problematic. Price is often a proxy for quality, and when you put yourself at the low end, it signals that you’re...

hbr.org

 

[Diamond Dave]

Just a hunch, but I'm betting membership holders are getting into trouble much less often than single day ticket holders.
Single day ticket holders don't have much on the line for misbehaving (not considering legal issues), but a member can have their pass revoked

 

[Zachary]

Just a hunch, but I'm betting membership holders are getting into trouble much less often than single day ticket holders.
Single day ticket holders don't have much on the line for misbehaving (not considering legal issues), but a member can have their pass revoked

May I suggest another possible answer? Fun Cards.

October weekend Howl-O-Scream tickets range from $70 to $90 online right now which strikes me as probably being a roughly market correct price for a premium Halloween event at a top tier regional theme park. Yeah, BGW needs to cut out the occasional, SUPER aggressive discounts, but, at least right now, the single day ticket pricing seems reasonable.

That said, instead of paying for one $90 Saturday, thanks to the fucking Fun Card, people can spend a little more ($103) and attend EVERY $90 Howl-O-Scream day this season AND THEN also visit as many times as they want through the start of September NEXT YEAR without suffering the blackout dates inflicted on the much more expensive basic memberships.

Not only does this DRAMATICALLY undervalue the park and nuke the perceived value of single day tickets and basic memberships, but I think it does something even more pernicious as well. If you're able to come back for free day after day, week after week, month after month on nothing but the already long-since sunk cost of your Fun Card—something you got for essentially the price of a one day ticket and have, hence, LONG since gone far beyond breaking even on—your perceived value of your trip to BGW is essentially non-existent. Memberships are something the vast majority of guests continuously invest money into with EZPay—that's not a thing with Fun Cards.

Additionally, if you're able to return day after day, week after week, month after month, what is one ruined day? So you got in a fight and caused a big scene—big deal—you can just quickly leave the park and return next week—basically no lost investment for the day you ruined by starting a brawl at BGW.

So yeah, fuck Fun Cards. Abolish them. Basic memberships should be the cheapest way to access BGW for nearly the whole season. EZPay voids the sunk cost fallacy-induced perceived devaluation, membership prices are much more in line with single day ticket values, you don't get your money's worth after a single day at the park, it requires signing a year-long contract with the park, it requires a more notable initial commitment to the park, etc. The type of guest who just wants to visit the park once probably isn't the guest you want to lure into committing to come back for almost an entire year—and that is the exact market the Fun Card is aimed at. If a YEAR'S worth of visits aren't worth AT LEAST the price of two single day tickets, something is seriously out of wack.

Honestly, I'd much rather see a reduction in ticket prices and the abolition of the Fun Card than a price increase to either or both. I think people who spend $60 per day probably value the experience a shit ton more than people who spend $103 for a hundred+ days.

 

[belsaas]

I was at the park yesterday (figured the gloomy atmosphere would keep the crowds down). While for the most part I was right, I did nearly walk straight into a fight in the Smokehouse dining area that connects to Aquitaine. It seemed to me to be a fight between two people in a relationship, but honestly I just left as fast as I could.

I know this isn't on the same scale as some brawls posted on here, but I had never seen someone verbally assaulting someone else in the park. Something really is in the air I guess?

 

[Bring Back Questor 87]

I was at the park yesterday (figured the gloomy atmosphere would keep the crowds down). While for the most part I was right, I did nearly walk straight into a fight in the Smokehouse dining area that connects to Aquitaine. It seemed to me to be a fight between two people in a relationship, but honestly I just left as fast as I could.

I know this isn't on the same scale as some brawls posted on here, but I had never seen someone verbally assaulting someone else in the park. Something really is in the air I guess?

You are not seeing things. Everyone is on edge in a way I have not seen in ages. Small things become bigger and non-sensical in violence, verbal or otherwise. I may start choosing rainy Tuesdays to go to Busch just so I can have some peace...

December will mark 2 years since I've set foot in that park, sad.

 

[Mamunia]

You are not seeing things. Everyone is on edge in a way I have not seen in ages. Small things become bigger and non-sensical in violence, verbal or otherwise. I may start choosing rainy Tuesdays to go to Busch just so I can have some peace...

December will mark 2 years since I've set foot in that park, sad.

Me too

 

[panopticon31]

May I suggest another possible answer? Fun Cards.

October weekend Howl-O-Scream tickets range from $70 to $90 online right now which strikes me as probably being a roughly market correct price for a premium Halloween event at a top tier regional theme park. Yeah, BGW needs to cut out the occasional, SUPER aggressive discounts, but, at least right now, the single day ticket pricing seems reasonable.

That said, instead of paying for one $90 Saturday, thanks to the fucking Fun Card, people can spend a little more ($103) and attend EVERY $90 Howl-O-Scream day this season AND THEN also visit as many times as they want through the start of September NEXT YEAR without suffering the blackout dates inflicted on the much more expensive basic memberships.

Not only does this DRAMATICALLY undervalue the park and nuke the perceived value of single day tickets and basic memberships, but I think it does something even more pernicious as well. If you're able to come back for free day after day, week after week, month after month on nothing but the already long-since sunk cost of your Fun Card—something you got for essentially the price of a one day ticket and have, hence, LONG since gone far beyond breaking even on—your perceived value of your trip to BGW is essentially non-existent. Memberships are something the vast majority of guests continuously invest money into with EZPay—that's not a thing with Fun Cards.

Additionally, if you're able to return day after day, week after week, month after month, what is one ruined day? So you got in a fight and caused a big scene—big deal—you can just quickly leave the park and return next week—basically no lost investment for the day you ruined by starting a brawl at BGW.

So yeah, fuck Fun Cards. Abolish them. Basic memberships should be the cheapest way to access BGW for nearly the whole season. EZPay voids the sunk cost fallacy-induced perceived devaluation, membership prices are much more in line with single day ticket values, you don't get your money's worth after a single day at the park, it requires signing a year-long contract with the park, it requires a more notable initial commitment to the park, etc. The type of guest who just wants to visit the park once probably isn't the guest you want to lure into committing to come back for almost an entire year—and that is the exact market the Fun Card is aimed at. If a YEAR'S worth of visits aren't worth AT LEAST the price of two single day tickets, something is seriously out of wack.

Honestly, I'd much rather see a reduction in ticket prices and the abolition of the Fun Card than a price increase to either or both. I think people who spend $60 per day probably value the experience a shit ton more than people who spend $103 for a hundred+ days.

Do fun cards include parking? Even still a monthly member will have paid MORE sept-sept than fun card purchasers. Its 110% horseshit.

 

[Zachary]

Neither Fun Cards nor Basic Memberships include free parking—though Basic Memberships get a parking discount that Fun Cards aren't entitled to.

 

[ludmarco]

This isn’t a brawl, but I wasn’t sure where to put this:

I was walking in Meat Market when a woman behind me started running from a creature and fell on top of me. I was ready to move on because I’ve been through worse, but the First Aid team was very courteous and eager to help. I had blood running down my leg, which they cleaned up, amd they gave me some ice for my cheekbone, which I fell on. All in all, great customer service experience, but why would you go to HOS if you know you’re going to be so afraid you’re going to run people down? Oddly enough, her kid didn’t seem afraid at all, and made sure I was okay.

 

[Zachary]

I hope the person who ran into you was reprimanded by security... Sounds like someone who definitely does not belong at Howl-O-Scream.

 

[qdeathstar]

Why You Should Charge Clients More Than You Think You’re Worth

Setting your rates is one of the most stressful decisions professionals face. While you might worry about scaring off customers by overcharging, undervaluing yourself is equally problematic. Price is often a proxy for quality, and when you put yourself at the low end, it signals that you’re...

hbr.org

I wouldn’t consider Busch Gardens a entrepreneur or small company. A company like Busch Gardens maximizes money by putting butts in the park. But that isn’t what we were talking about. We were asking how charging more for admittance to the party would make the party goes better behaved.

 

[Zachary]

I wouldn’t consider Busch Gardens a entrepreneur or small company. A company like Busch Gardens maximizes money by putting butts in the park. But that isn’t what we were talking about. We were asking how charging more for admittance to the party would make the party goes better behaved.

I think the expectation was that you would extrapolate useful trends from the studies and apply them to the situation at hand.

Studies seem to show that...

• When the perceived value of a good or service is higher, people are more satisfied with said good or service
• That perceived value of a good or service is heavily influenced by the price of the good or service in question

Our theory is that, in general, the more satisfied people are in the park, the happier they will be throughout their day. Additionally, we hypothesize that, while happy, people are unlikely to start brawls in an amusement park. Consequently, we estimate that increasing perceived value may be a good option to reduce violence in the park.

I spesifically went so quickly to price as the nob to turn because it can be done instantaneously by the park at any point. The other factors weighing on perceived value should be addressed as well in my opinion, but they become easier to turn after price increases and they take a lot longer to move.

Anyway, you don't have to agree—I'm laying out a theory, not a gospel—in fact, I'd love to hear an argument in another direction—you're just not currently making any substantive case here.

 

[Nicole]

I wouldn’t consider Busch Gardens a entrepreneur or small company. A company like Busch Gardens maximizes money by putting butts in the park. But that isn’t what we were talking about. We were asking how charging more for admittance to the party would make the party goes better behaved.

I was citing the principle that underlies the recommendation in that article. (The one I specifically quoted.) I was not implying that BGW is a consultant.

The point is that people often assign worth in part based on price. It is a concept we were taught in Freshman economics.

 

[UncleDuncan]

Few things.

ITT there is thinly veiled racism and it's disgraceful. Pretending a handful of fights (mostly involving minorites) breaking out at theme parks is some sort of malicious, organized crime (with copy cats, no less) is fucking stupid. Yes. You are literally an idiot if from these few videos you devised a theory where a network of copy cat "thugs" are somehow plausible and there is some sort of underground crime conspiracy. Fucking L O L.
Meanwhile, white college towns riot and fight all the fucking time. And, for reasons beyond comprehension, often when the local team wins. But because those are white college students, literally no one gives a shit.

Have some perspective. I grew up in constant violence - impoverished. It's not the end of the world if a few people get physical. Even riots are often dispersed quickly with the worst of it being some property damage. Big fucking deal.

Also, raising the ticket prices is a laughable response. That solution is basically "keep the poors out" and pretend your increasing "value." Please.

People fight when they feel there's nothing left to lose; when material conditions are not being met. That includes whatever they paid to get in the park, however much that is. 100, 200, 300 a ticket. Whatever.

This fucking forum. Jesus.

 

[qdeathstar]

I think the expectation was that you would extrapolate useful trends from the studies and apply them to the situation at hand.

Studies seem to show that...

• When the perceived value of a good or service is higher, people are more satisfied with said good or service
• That perceived value of a good or service is heavily influenced by the price of the good or service in question

Our theory is that, in general, the more satisfied people are in the park, the happier they will be throughout their day. Additionally, we hypothesize that, while happy, people are unlikely to start brawls in an amusement park. Consequently, we estimate that increasing perceived value may be a good option to reduce violence in the park.

I spesifically went so quickly to price as the nob to turn because it can be done instantaneously by the park at any point. The other factors weighing on perceived value should be addressed as well in my opinion, but they become easier to turn after price increases and they take a lot longer to move.

Anyway, you don't have to agree—I'm laying out a theory, not a gospel—in fact, I'd love to hear an argument in another direction—you're just not currently making any substantive case here.

I don’t have to make a substantive case to disagree with the series of assumptions you are making.

I don’t think “troublemakers” are getting into fights because they are dissatisfied with the product. I disagree raising the price will make them less likely to fight. You haven’t providing any evidence to the contrary. Your posts and studies don’t address random violence but hinge on satisfaction. For some people there is nothing more satisfying that punching someone in the face.

There are relatively few fights compared to the number of people at the park. There will always be a few trouble makers.

What I see here is pearl clutching and some people trying to build a wall to keep the riff raff out. If it doesn’t work in Mexico I don’t see it working out at bge.



Have adequate security and prosecute troublemakers. It isn’t that hard.


Cue rolling eyes reaction now….

 

[qdeathstar]

I was citing the principle that underlies the recommendation in that article. (The one I specifically quoted.) I was not implying that BGW is a consultant.

The point is that people often assign worth in part based on price. It is a concept we were taught in Freshman economics.

You’ve made point A. Congrats. I’m looking for you to get to F without jumping right past T first.

 

[Zachary]

ITT: People conflating calls for the park to price its admission products more in line with those at other, similar parks with racism or classism.

@UncleDuncan and @qdeathstar: Serious question—do you two not believe that people tend treat things they spend more money on with more care? That is the core of my pricing case.

Anecdotally, that idea seems correct to me—and I can see where that melds well with the research on perceived value—but if you two have something to convince me otherwise, I'm happy to hear it.

 

[qdeathstar]

@UncleDuncan and @qdeathstar: Serious question—do you two not believe that people tend treat things they spend more money on with more care? That is the core of my pricing case.

Sure but it’s not like we are talking about a sofa. We are talking about an experience. And for a very small group of people part of that experience is the thrill of getting into it.

 

[Zachary]

Ok, so your case is that, while it tends to be true that people treat things they spend more on with more reverence, that doesn't apply to an amusement park, yes? Is the theory that it's because a day at an amusement park is a consumable service/experience and, hence, can't hold its value like another kind of expensive purchase (like a nice sofa) may be able to?

Also, let me ask you this: Do you not believe that people who are enjoying an experience are also people who are less likely to start a fight?

 

[UncleDuncan]

ITT: People conflating calls for the park to price its admission products more in line with those at other, similar parks with racism or classism.

@UncleDuncan and @qdeathstar: Serious question—do you two not believe that people tend treat things they spend more money on with more care? That is the core of my pricing case.

Anecdotally, that idea seems correct to me—and I can see where that melds well with the research on perceived value—but if you two have something to convince me otherwise, I'm happy to hear it.

You're conflating a thing you buy (stereo, tv, mail order bride, etc.) with a leisure experience. And while leisure experiences are necessary they don't "hold value" like say, owning an ounce of gold might over a period of time.

Also, you're conflating price with value. This is why the stock market is actually bullshit and the shit you buy on the shelf is a fucking facade. The value of anything is what it costs to make it. Period. You've effectively dipped your toe into commodity fetishism where the thing you like you've assigned some sort of mystic hoobajoo to, vice what the thing does and is comprised of and what went into making it.