Yes thanks for that post. I think of BGW and the theming at entrance, takes you back in time, why ruin a good thing. I still like my idea I posted earlier.
Banbury Cross Retheme Coming in 2014
- Thread starter Zachary
- Start date
Let's approach this from a different angle: it's one thing to try to evoke an era of yore, to try and transport people to a time and place far from that which anyone living has known... but at what point does the subject become too recent to be considered tasteful - at what point do the generalizations and stereotypes of a culture, or about the naivete of people of the recent past, (or both, for that matter) become mockery?
Haberdasher1973 said:
It's a Small World
Completely tone deaf
Shane said:
This is spot on. I could not agree more, and in fact my childhood was identical. Banbury Cross started my love of classical music, and I also listened to the same CD-ROM clip endlessly. Even as I grew older, the feeling of walking into Banbury Cross never changed. It really was incredible every time.
Shane said:
Seconded. This will effectively destroy the park for me and, clearly, others as well. But it is more than that. It will destroy the brand. My son, who I so wished to experience the same BGW I did, will not get to do so. My wife and I have decided that if things are as bad as they could be next year, then we will no longer remain annual pass holders. I can't say we'll never go, but it will be a rare event simply because BGW is turning into a park I just don't like anymore. I understand things change - that I have no issue with. I have an issue with killing off a great park.
Union Jax will now be called Gasparich’s Groovy Gifts.
I hate it. The atmosphere and the whole theming of the park is what has kept my family coming back for three years now. With the Italian masks gone (we planned to buy at least 1 per year), the cuckoos and stein's gone, and now the just plain recklessness of theming Banbury Cross as something that does not fit and is insulting, we will not be back. We had plans on season passes for the upcoming season and make multiple visits, including Howl-O-Scream and Christmas Town but those plans have certainly changed. When will this end? Who at SWPE even cares as to what is being done to this great park? So far it seems like no one cares and some executives are getting unchecked reign over a park.
I hate it. The atmosphere and the whole theming of the park is what has kept my family coming back for three years now. With the Italian masks gone (we planned to buy at least 1 per year), the cuckoos and stein's gone, and now the just plain recklessness of theming Banbury Cross as something that does not fit and is insulting, we will not be back. We had plans on season passes for the upcoming season and make multiple visits, including Howl-O-Scream and Christmas Town but those plans have certainly changed. When will this end? Who at SWPE even cares as to what is being done to this great park? So far it seems like no one cares and some executives are getting unchecked reign over a park.
For what it's worth, I was telling my friend who might only go to the park once or twice a year about the plans. His response was a verbal, "WHAT THE F---, No! You can't do that to area!"
The uber nerds here aren't the only ones upset about the changes.
The uber nerds here aren't the only ones upset about the changes.
Pretzel Kaiser said:
I honestly don't think that most people would be OK with this idea. Obviously from this thread, horror is not universal, but I doubt you could find very much support for any plan to tart up what is possibly the most iconic area in BGW.
To me the question goes beyond the goodness/badness of change or even nostalgia about the good old days. In many ways it is a simple business problem. Maybe I am wrong, but I think the Banbury Cross area is an essential part of the park's branding. Of course Nessie is also a long-standing icon, but at least for me, when I think of the park, the first image in my mind is England. This idea feels like New Coke. It doesn't taste as good, and it simply isn't Coca-Cola.
I'll admit that my first emotional response when I saw this thread was to go into my normal mode of contrarian. I really can't help myself, especially when there seems to be an overwhelming majority supporting one viewpoint. It is in my blood and in my training. It is what I am paid to do every day.
Regardless, reading Shane's post, chatting over PM, and thinking about it seriously last night I came to the conclusion that this plan is just insane. And no, I don't want to "wait and see." How can you possibly change the theme to the 1960s and not change the essential aesthetic of the hamlet? Who cares if it is tasteful (not likely given the planner in question); if it still English; or if it is pretty? At the end of the day, it is a place that belongs in a different park.
Woods, flowers, and specific architectures are part of the park's identity. KD is about its thrill rides. Disney has a mouse. If you take away the essential look and feel of BGW, you are left with a generic, regional amusement park.
Please tell me there is a clever plan to stop this madness? (Note: Clever plans do not include ranting and insulting park management; I mean real and effective solutions.)
Nic said:
I pray someone can; I unfortunately have none bar chaining ourselves to Big Ben or something. It being private property I don't think that is an option.
Nic said:
I've been pondering this for ages. I have nothing. There's a point where we've all been yelling for so long that we just get tired and give up. I don't know what we can do other than to either keep yelling or throw up our hands and walk away. I know from talking to some of you that some of you are at the point of walking away. I fear I'm getting there to. In my mind, there's only one thing that can save the park at this point: A massive change in leadership and, if we're lucky, a change in ownership too. Until that happens, I fear we're suck in free fall.
Unfortunately, as my military planner friends like to say, "Hope is not a COA." (Course of Action)
Edit: To me this falls under the category of "picking your battles." I think it is way more serious than an Irish wagon or shrubbery at DarKastle (for example). But like everything, that is just my opinion.
Edit: To me this falls under the category of "picking your battles." I think it is way more serious than an Irish wagon or shrubbery at DarKastle (for example). But like everything, that is just my opinion.
I can't help but feel that any COA we come up with would have to be carried out through PMs and not in a thread - this may be an instance where we don't want the park to know what we're up to until it's foisted upon them...
Haberdasher1973 said:
Monty Python..or Sun Tsu...Monthy Python...or Sun Tsu...
Our chief weapon is surprise, fear and surprise; two chief weapons, fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency! Er, among our chief weapons are: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and near fanatical devotion to the Pope!
I can't believe this is actually happening.
I hope whoever is in charge here realizes that BGW is not only a regional park... It's a local park.
A park that apparently even the company realizes relies on it's local visitors to stay afloat and make money.
You are about to destroy what has been a local Icon. A rite of passage and a gateway to fun for all the youth, teens and families in all of hampton roads and beyond for 30+ years. All, to tie in with a new show that won't last anymore than 8 years tops, no matter how fantastic it may end up being... That's about the common high end life-span for your average Theme-park show.
Mr. Gasparich, I see alot of hate directed to you on these forums. I don't agree with it at all. But I don't really like some of the changes you've made. I applaud you on what you managed to help pull together for root of all evil and cut throat cave. Amazing mazes, That I'd argue are better than quite a few you've had in the past thematically and story wise. Christmas Town, The first couple Illuminights. Amazing things for the park... I'm Totally in love with Night Beats. A Completely fantastic show. I'm definitely on the disliking of entwined wagon, but that's besides the point.
See, I, like you, produce shows and various forums of entertainment. Albeit on a much smaller scale (for now anyways), and catered to entirely different markets. It doesn't matter. I was never afforded the ability to move forward until I was able to handle criticism, from my guest, and from my peers. Specifically my peers, people who were there to help... I ran a one man show. I didn't want anyone ruining my visions. I didn't want anyone destroying what I created... And It's not that I'm the biggest ego in the world or w/e anyone else said about me. Each thing I produce is dear to me and I want it done right. I can babble on but the point is, I was never able to get to where I'm at now and put such shows I'm working on now into production if I didn't get help. If I didn't eventually have someone else keeping me in check. My ideas would be great on paper, and to me but when I shunned creative criticism from my guest, and my own creative team... I fell on my face. Maybe I should've listened. Maybe it wasn't entirely my fault. Who knows. But, I can't deny the change and enhanced vision and new opportunities I have now by just opening an ear... And I'm still happy because my creative vision is still intact, and quite frankly that's all I wanted.
Anyways Mr. Gasparich,
I don't know how high up in the company this decision goes. Maybe the chain wants the retheme of this section of the park. Maybe the whole chain is undergoing rebranding and Williamsburg is merely the test dummy. I don't know... But what I do know is you announced the retheme one of the most iconic sections of the park. One of the biggest icon's in the whole chain's history. Bigger than the Festhaus stage. Arguably just as big as Nessie's interlocking loops... As much as I hate The Beatles, I must say that the snippet of London Rocks I saw from the passmember appreciation presentation looked great. Looks like a great show, even if out of place arguably in relation to theme of the hamlet... And you know what, That's alright. But I definitely must plead with you and ask you and whoever else in charge to consider what you might do to this Section of the park. It could turn out great... But is that even worth the risk of what you might actually end up doing?
England is an immortal Icon to this area, to the park... It's Mainstreet USA of the 757. I Do agree it can use some enhancement and some upgrading. It can look much, much better than it does now. It's gotten a bit rough... BUT... Completely transforming it into something new. It isn't a good idea. You might as well rip out Nessie while you're at it if you ask me. I just have to urge anyone with any say in this matter to reconsider. It means a whole lot to a lot of people in this area, and part of the experience of Busch Gardens as a whole.
I hope whoever is in charge here realizes that BGW is not only a regional park... It's a local park.
A park that apparently even the company realizes relies on it's local visitors to stay afloat and make money.
You are about to destroy what has been a local Icon. A rite of passage and a gateway to fun for all the youth, teens and families in all of hampton roads and beyond for 30+ years. All, to tie in with a new show that won't last anymore than 8 years tops, no matter how fantastic it may end up being... That's about the common high end life-span for your average Theme-park show.
Mr. Gasparich, I see alot of hate directed to you on these forums. I don't agree with it at all. But I don't really like some of the changes you've made. I applaud you on what you managed to help pull together for root of all evil and cut throat cave. Amazing mazes, That I'd argue are better than quite a few you've had in the past thematically and story wise. Christmas Town, The first couple Illuminights. Amazing things for the park... I'm Totally in love with Night Beats. A Completely fantastic show. I'm definitely on the disliking of entwined wagon, but that's besides the point.
See, I, like you, produce shows and various forums of entertainment. Albeit on a much smaller scale (for now anyways), and catered to entirely different markets. It doesn't matter. I was never afforded the ability to move forward until I was able to handle criticism, from my guest, and from my peers. Specifically my peers, people who were there to help... I ran a one man show. I didn't want anyone ruining my visions. I didn't want anyone destroying what I created... And It's not that I'm the biggest ego in the world or w/e anyone else said about me. Each thing I produce is dear to me and I want it done right. I can babble on but the point is, I was never able to get to where I'm at now and put such shows I'm working on now into production if I didn't get help. If I didn't eventually have someone else keeping me in check. My ideas would be great on paper, and to me but when I shunned creative criticism from my guest, and my own creative team... I fell on my face. Maybe I should've listened. Maybe it wasn't entirely my fault. Who knows. But, I can't deny the change and enhanced vision and new opportunities I have now by just opening an ear... And I'm still happy because my creative vision is still intact, and quite frankly that's all I wanted.
Anyways Mr. Gasparich,
I don't know how high up in the company this decision goes. Maybe the chain wants the retheme of this section of the park. Maybe the whole chain is undergoing rebranding and Williamsburg is merely the test dummy. I don't know... But what I do know is you announced the retheme one of the most iconic sections of the park. One of the biggest icon's in the whole chain's history. Bigger than the Festhaus stage. Arguably just as big as Nessie's interlocking loops... As much as I hate The Beatles, I must say that the snippet of London Rocks I saw from the passmember appreciation presentation looked great. Looks like a great show, even if out of place arguably in relation to theme of the hamlet... And you know what, That's alright. But I definitely must plead with you and ask you and whoever else in charge to consider what you might do to this Section of the park. It could turn out great... But is that even worth the risk of what you might actually end up doing?
England is an immortal Icon to this area, to the park... It's Mainstreet USA of the 757. I Do agree it can use some enhancement and some upgrading. It can look much, much better than it does now. It's gotten a bit rough... BUT... Completely transforming it into something new. It isn't a good idea. You might as well rip out Nessie while you're at it if you ask me. I just have to urge anyone with any say in this matter to reconsider. It means a whole lot to a lot of people in this area, and part of the experience of Busch Gardens as a whole.
To what Nic, Shane and Zachary said. If you wait, you might be too late. The round stage in the Festhaus is the poster child for this nightmare.
Can I offer a rational slice of non-local pie?
Banbury Cross is not an integral part of the park. It's loss will not be mourned by me, though I appreciate the grief felt if you grew up with it.
But, what boggles my mind, and why I came here, is to question why a park apparently cutting back all over the place is going to squander what little they have for investment on a retheme?
Rethemes are a rare thing... When I hear something is getting rethemed, I get excited. It's a park taking care of something, wanting to improve something that sucks. Banbury Cross is inoffensive. It's not outdated. It's not falling apart. Why does it need a retheme?
Why not retheme one of the grotesque areas of the park, like, I dunno... over by Apollo?
Then it occurred to me. This is part of a damned rebrand, isn't it.
I hate Busch's new logo, I hated the park entrance this year. They're doing that awful thing where a park distances itself from any recognisable atmospheric qualities it worked so hard to build in favour of creating a generic clean "fresh" brand. But why?? "If it aint broke...!"
I guess they must have established something is broke.
I have no issue with the retheme subject - 1960s London - because, it'll help Oktoberfest not stand out like a sore thumb, but I just don't get why you'd throw money at a main street retheme when you've just closed one of your newest attractions due to budgeting cuts.
Busch you cray.
I'm acting like they never were confusing but the reality is they've never made any sense.
What I don't get is how over the top you're all being, mind you. I can't imagine feeling this way to a re-theme of Towers Street at Alton... I cannot identify. Some of you do genuinely look insane in this thread, and I hope you take that comment not with rage but are able to see that I'm offering another perspective. I personally think that you will fail to get anywhere with this attitude. And I also think it's weird that some of you think it's all rooted in the park and it's employees... This will be a decision made way higher up the Seaworld ladder. You need to stop placing blame on individuals who are just doing their jobs the way the company is likely forcing them too. And there will be perfectly good reasons for those corporate decisions, at least in the minds of those who made them. They aren't trying to ruin the park, they are trying to make it more profitable. Sometimes it's hard to forget that. Does that mean that every decision will result in perfection or that we cannot query the sensibilities or personal preferences of them. But it's someone's job to research this shit and find out what the best strategy for growth is, ya know. Crazy idea, I know.
Banbury Cross is not an integral part of the park. It's loss will not be mourned by me, though I appreciate the grief felt if you grew up with it.
But, what boggles my mind, and why I came here, is to question why a park apparently cutting back all over the place is going to squander what little they have for investment on a retheme?
Rethemes are a rare thing... When I hear something is getting rethemed, I get excited. It's a park taking care of something, wanting to improve something that sucks. Banbury Cross is inoffensive. It's not outdated. It's not falling apart. Why does it need a retheme?
Why not retheme one of the grotesque areas of the park, like, I dunno... over by Apollo?
Then it occurred to me. This is part of a damned rebrand, isn't it.
I hate Busch's new logo, I hated the park entrance this year. They're doing that awful thing where a park distances itself from any recognisable atmospheric qualities it worked so hard to build in favour of creating a generic clean "fresh" brand. But why?? "If it aint broke...!"
I guess they must have established something is broke.
I have no issue with the retheme subject - 1960s London - because, it'll help Oktoberfest not stand out like a sore thumb, but I just don't get why you'd throw money at a main street retheme when you've just closed one of your newest attractions due to budgeting cuts.
Busch you cray.
I'm acting like they never were confusing but the reality is they've never made any sense.
What I don't get is how over the top you're all being, mind you. I can't imagine feeling this way to a re-theme of Towers Street at Alton... I cannot identify. Some of you do genuinely look insane in this thread, and I hope you take that comment not with rage but are able to see that I'm offering another perspective. I personally think that you will fail to get anywhere with this attitude. And I also think it's weird that some of you think it's all rooted in the park and it's employees... This will be a decision made way higher up the Seaworld ladder. You need to stop placing blame on individuals who are just doing their jobs the way the company is likely forcing them too. And there will be perfectly good reasons for those corporate decisions, at least in the minds of those who made them. They aren't trying to ruin the park, they are trying to make it more profitable. Sometimes it's hard to forget that. Does that mean that every decision will result in perfection or that we cannot query the sensibilities or personal preferences of them. But it's someone's job to research this shit and find out what the best strategy for growth is, ya know. Crazy idea, I know.
You know this was all announced back on September 7th at the Pass Member preview and the press release is dated that day...why is this getting so much attention now...ten days later?
From what I could tell the press release wasn't actually up on the 7th. No clue when it finally went up but I stumbled across it the night I posted this thread.
Also, nothing about it was mentioned at the event (trust me, I was listening for it). If it had been, people would have snapped immediately.
Also, nothing about it was mentioned at the event (trust me, I was listening for it). If it had been, people would have snapped immediately.
I guess I haven't thrown in my 5 cents yet. I just haven't found the words yet, I could barely imagine that this was actually happening in the first place. I just waited for 2 days for a post saying this was a practical joke that couldn't wait until April 1st because the park would've already been open. I didn't mind London Rocks coming to The Globe. The park is insane to think that they can re-theme a Shakespearean England to 1960's London without tearing it down. I'm just so surprised that there wasn't an outcry on this forum, never in my life have I thought that I'd be a BGW Radical. The park has relied on their loyal pass members ever since they opened, and there is no doubt that with the quality of theming decreasing that they are losing Pass members, and the ones that stay are starting to go less.
A lot of you say that it won't be so bad and we have to wait to see it. However, if it came down to a choice which would you rather have? The England we have right now that sets the standard every time you come, for the rest of the park, or the new 1960's England that won't match the theming of the rest of the park? Again not only will the re-theme ruin the Hamlet, it won't match the rest of the park. The park, and its hamlets are supposed to be themed after European countries of the far past. Now if your introduction, to the park doesn't match the rest of the park, wouldn't it confuse you? It's like watching a movie that starts out as animated then suddenly turns into a real-life action movie.
If you're reading this Busch Gardens I'm warning you not to do this. It will hurt you, there will be an outcry, and that is just the least of it. And the thing that matters most to you guys, Money, you will loose a ton of it, because you are basically forcing the loyal pass members, the bloodline of this park out of it. You will regret this decision mark my words. And if it makes any difference, please don't do this, for me because I can't stand to see you guys rip this park to shreds.
A lot of you say that it won't be so bad and we have to wait to see it. However, if it came down to a choice which would you rather have? The England we have right now that sets the standard every time you come, for the rest of the park, or the new 1960's England that won't match the theming of the rest of the park? Again not only will the re-theme ruin the Hamlet, it won't match the rest of the park. The park, and its hamlets are supposed to be themed after European countries of the far past. Now if your introduction, to the park doesn't match the rest of the park, wouldn't it confuse you? It's like watching a movie that starts out as animated then suddenly turns into a real-life action movie.
If you're reading this Busch Gardens I'm warning you not to do this. It will hurt you, there will be an outcry, and that is just the least of it. And the thing that matters most to you guys, Money, you will loose a ton of it, because you are basically forcing the loyal pass members, the bloodline of this park out of it. You will regret this decision mark my words. And if it makes any difference, please don't do this, for me because I can't stand to see you guys rip this park to shreds.