This is Oktoberfest

Register or Login to Hide This Ad for Free!
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

We welcome everyone but the site wasn't built for everyone- it was built for people with a true passion and connection to the park. The trouble is that most of the people who had that 4 years ago don't have it anymore- it has been destroyed by the park. We're left with a passion for what was and a distaste for what is. The people who have developed a love for the park in more recent times have the same passion about what they see now as "the old guard" had for what we saw just a few short years ago. That's the root of all of this conflict and disagreement and there's no fixing it on either side because, truly, there's nothing broken other than the park itself.
Click to expand...

I don't think I fit in either category.  In fact, I think this view is overly simplistic to point of being dangerous (for lack of a better word).  By distilling everyone down to two convenient categories, I think it fuels the "us and them" mentality that seems to be taking over.  It also worries me that everything I post is viewed from this optic.  It is hard enough to express oneself and to capture shades of meaning without laying preconceived notions on top.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Peter R., Celticdog, Thomas and 1 other person
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

Malsdad said:
BUT, if I found myself not liking this hypothetical Ruby Tuesday's, I certainly wouldn't join the Ruby Tuesday Fan Site, spend years on the fan site posting how I think they could improve it and telling everyone how great it was 5 years ago.
Click to expand...
We're not just complaining. As Alpenghost said, our goal is to help the park see what they could do better and fix the things that aren't so good. Take for instance when they stopped selling authentic German steins and cuckoo clocks last season in Rhinefeld. We were able to create a great enough spotlight and generate enough concern that- sure enough- the steins and cuckoo clocks returned. Who do you think was the reason for that?

Another example would be the grimm (note the spelling :p) year of 2012 when Entwined moved into the Festhaus and TiO moved out. The public outcry- led by BGWFans- for TiO to return was enough to bring back a large chunk of the Festhaus's soul.

Just nodding and smiling at everything the park does isn't going to help. Whether or not you dislike something, a large portion of the general public does. I can't tell you how many of my friends have "forgotten" about BGW or just let their passes expire, because what they offer now isn't as special or as high of quality of what they used to offer. That is what is dangerous for the park.

I'm not going to say none of the GP reads the forums, because people of all different familiarity levels of the park are both members and guests to this forum. But as folks on both "sides" have correctly pointed out (from Zach to Matt Conkle), surely more than 90% of people who visit the park have never visited this forum, nor have they any desire to.

If there was nobody to tell the park what they are doing wrong, they would continue to replace park icons and beloved items with... these below-par things. Most people aren't going to make a big stink about not visiting the park anymore, but they're just not going to think anything of it anymore. Lots of people are too mature for giant snails and disco turtles- maybe they'll decide to look elsewhere for entertainment. By bringing up what the park is doing wrong, we are making an effort to restore what is right and furthermore, we are preventing future damage.

Now, some of you absolutely love, love, love things the park does. Whether or not I agree aside, if you think what this is is a turn for the better, then I fully respect that. On the other hand, saying something-something is just "good enough" or "I can learn to like it" isn't going to help matters in one way or another. As Zachary says, taking the lesser of two evils isn't how you get a better park.

I would find a new restaurant and move on.  
Click to expand...

This is the other danger for BGW. The mistakes they make are indeed, 100% confirmed to be driving people away. People are going to look for other means of entertainment. Perhaps the biggest danger for BGW is the fact that Kings Dominion is capitalizing on literally every mistake BGW is making. Especially in the eyes of the GP, Kings Dominion is going to be the better place for them to spend their money. It's not a good thing when BGW doesn't adequately compete with their competition.

That's fine, I think a mix of people on both sides is great, but I just don't think your restaurant will ever again be what you remember it being.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you brought this up, because there does seem to be an understandable misconception on here. I don't think anybody necessarily wants BGW to be an exact replica of what it was back when AB owned the park. Changes have to be made, or nobody is going to keep paying to come back over and over again. However, if they expect people to keep paying that same continually rising price to enter the gates, they had better keep the quality of the product they offer the same. Otherwise, people aren't going to want to pay the same continually rising price for a lesser product. That is what I think we all want: a quality experience like no other, and that's what we will not stop fighting for.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Parkgoer, flamanar, Zachary and 6 others
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

The real questions is, what is good and what is bad? There are people who legitimately love the changes, and there are those who do not. While these are the main categories people seem to be falling in to there are others that do not necessarily love every change or hate every change. It should be noted that yes, every once in a while someone should have the ability to choose one over a common pattern.

But it comes down to what people legitimately prefer and that will be something no one can ever agree on.
 
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

Blaze Star said:
The real questions is, what is good and what is bad? There are people who legitimately love the changes, and there are those who do not. While these are the main categories people seem to be falling in to there are others that do not necessarily love every change or hate every change.
Click to expand...

There's no argument that there are some things that some people LOVE and other people HATE. However, there are two important things you're forgetting:

1.) There are many things where very few people, if nobody absolutely LOVES it with a passion. I am happy to see that some things the park does is perfect to some; I know Cody, Matt Conkle, etc. are big fans of many things the park does. There's nothing wrong with that at all. However, there are the things where it's much more of a "good enough" or "it could be worse" scenario (ie. Killarney Kommotion, Illuminights) where very few people are actually praising it. This is where it's really doing no good for the park. And see, the park has done away with this because our reaction to it was not what they expected.

2.) The GP. Sure, the general public isn't going to pick up on everything tiny thing the park does like we do. I try my best to stay out of those "I can't believe they planted a shrub there instead of a bush!" discussions (unless it's for the sake of sarcasm and/or comic relief), but the GP sure as hell is going to notice giant snails and whatnot in Bavarian Germany. Most of the GP doesn't care about how the Easter Bunny originated in Germany. What they will notice is that the classiness of the park that has kept them coming back for more is diminishing. Like I said, they're not going to blow up about any of this like we do. They're just going to forget that the park is special, and look elsewhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jrbgwfan06, flamanar, Zachary and 3 others
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

Looking back at what Griffon mentioned earlier, about Entwined and TIO performing one after the other. It seems to be starting tomorrow. While TIO will finally be able to experience prime time crowd, there is a bit of a downside to this. Instead of the normal 6 show times on Sundays and Fridays in Das Festhaus,(3 Entwined, 3 TIO) it seems right now they are reducing that number to 4, making it 2 show times of each. Hopefully they'll switch it back to 6 as the season goes on, but we'll just have to wait and see now.

SHOWTIMES
 
  • Like
Reactions: flamanar and Zachary
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

Okay to get this thread back on track, again, I know usually the site will be a little off with show times, so it would be nice if someone could confirm tomorrow what the actual show times are, and if there is more than 4.
 
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

I'm afraid I'm in the same 'corner' as the 'old guard'.  The people who voice their opinions here provide valuable input for BGW.  What is NOT valuable input is a thousand 'fan-boys', giddy about something like Killarney Kommotion.  Any truly great business (be it a themepark or car sales) understands that it will only thrive if it listens to...and takes seriously...constructive criticism.  A company that is destined to fail is the company that files 'constructive criticism' in the 'trash folder'.  

One truly disturbing thing I read on here awhile back was someone rationalizing a bad show or something by saying that it sometimes takes a few viewings for a show or any other part of a themepark to 'catch on'.  I disagree, strongly.  A truly great show will blow you away the first time, and send tingles down your spine and give you a nice 'rush'.  You will remember it for a LONG time afterwards, and you will crave the opportunity to re-experience that item that blew you away.  You will tell your friends. Those types of shows/events are very hard to pull off, and I don't think anybody expects EVERY show (or ride, restaurant, whatever) to hit the ball out of the park. But you can typically tell when they aren't even hitting the ball at all...let alone hitting it out of the park. They're just swinging wildly in the air, like they were trying to hit a pinata while blindfolded. Just plain awful. Using WDW as an example of something that left a lasting impression on me (to this day), I'll never forget the first time (1999) when I saw 'Reflections of Earth'.  Blew me away.  NOTHING ABOUT IT did I dislike!  It was THAT intense and amazing. Every time I see a fireworks show now, I always remember ROE.  

A truly great experience is not one that requires numerous viewings in order to eventually 'tolerate' it, and maybe later on 'like' it.  That (imho) is nothing more than growing more and more apathetic/complacent with something that is sub-par...but could be worse.  SOME 'bad things' can be improved significantly with small changes, or even large changes. And some 'bad things' really just need to be scrapped, and move onto something different that has a better chance of being really good. Or just put back what was ALREADY really good, and scrap the crap! (sorry, had to say it)

Joe and Zachary both spoke for me.  Joe said, "Just nodding and smiling at everything the park does isn't going to help."  Couldn't agree more!  THAT is the type of feedback that the park should actively seek to avoid. NOTHING is 100% awesomeness. It's not possible. When they're taking surveys as you leave the park, and you reply that there wasn't anything they could change to make the experience better...all it means is that either you weren't paying attention, or you're just trying to get back to your car after a long day on your feet walking up and down hills and standing alot!  

To be clear, I don't seek out things to dislike in the places I visit.  HOWEVER:  I know what I like, and I make sure that if I don't like it...I will speak my mind WHY (and possibly HOW) it could be better (again, imho).  BGW over the years has shown me that they truly value my opinions.  Some of those times came in the form of written responses to my concerns.  Some were phone calls from BGW about my concerns.  And make no mistake...I never communicate just those things I DISLIKE to BGW.  NO company wants to read a letter that's 100% trashing their business! That just shows a lack of being objective, and discredits you and your opinions. I ALWAYS make sure I list some things that I feel are really done well along with any criticism.  One current thing that comes to mind is the new bridge.  I really like the way it turned out (judging from the pics...I haven't been to the park in years, so I 'visit the park through the pics and vids people post here').  At the same time, I can really pick up on things that have 'gone missing' for some reason or another.  I make sure the park knows that what they may have considered a 'minor change' was noticed by yours truly, and I'd like for them to re-think removing or discontinuing whatever the item/event was that they did away with or changed.

Lastly, I think there is a segment of people on this site within the past year or so that expects everyone else on here to just 'go with the flow'.  Treating others like they're nothing but 'troublemakers', or that their opinions are nothing more than chronic 'noisemaking'.  I consider such a thing to be extremely counter-productive.  I swear, sometimes it seems like the park sends people onto this site to be 'cheerleaders', to 'balance out' the people who have valid concerns regarding the park.  May not be the case...but sometimes I have to wonder.

The park may never be like it was decades ago, and I don't expect that from them.  But one thing I will NEVER be 'ok with' is BGW spending lots of time and money in areas of the park that do NOT need improved!  I'm looking at area 'X' of the park, which is in serious need of updating/repair/whatever for YEARS now...and in the meantime, they're doing something crazy expensive in another area that really wasn't a problem to begin with!  Seems like alot of wasted and mismanaged money over the past few years, and it's disappointing to witness.  What I DO still expect (and demand) is QUALITY IMPROVEMENTS and upgrades. Enough of throwing money at projects that come off as something that was just created to 'get by'. Shooting glitter and confetti in the air for every show and stringing thousands of yards of garland all over the place, hanging rainbow-colored banners and plunking down bizarre snails and giant butterflys and whatnot are ridiculous. It's gaudy, it's too 'in-your-face', and quite frankly, it can be 'scenery pollution'! BGW has enough natural beauty that it doesn't need a ton of garish decorations. Sadly, whoever is in charge of the 'decoration department' can't see this simple fact.

In closing: if you're not going to do something really well...then don't do it at all! If you're going to change something radically, make sure you can put back whatever was there before...in case your new-fangled idea is a flop of elephantine proportions! I don't think I need to really bring up how much rehab the Entertainment Department in general needs. Oh, and the new color on the Festhaus floor makes me want to puke.  But...I do like the new bridge :p

On a different note, I do find encouragement here in the fact that at least one other person (Joe) has the propensity for writing long posts like myself ;)  lol Now I'm off to join Zachary, Joe and other 'protectors of the realm''in the corner'>>>
 
  • Like
Reactions: VACoasterFan, Zachary, Applesauce and 7 others
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

In case you didn't know, there are two versions of TiO. The cast refers to them as the "Bench Show" and the "Wedding Show". The normal routine is that the Bench Show is performed first, then rotates with the Wedding Show...usually. Chances are when you catch TiO you will see the Bench Show. What's the difference? Well, a few song numbers are switched out and you will see some shrubbery and maypole-like ribbons in the dances. I like them both, but my favorite song is in the Bench version (Lalalalala lalala la).

Check out This is Oktoberfest - The Wedding Show...

 
  • Like
Reactions: Doglover98, CastleOSullivan, Jrbgwfan06 and 3 others
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

I see another familiar face in there.:D

May I ask when this was filmed?

I'm asking because Sunday I went and that familiar face was sitting watching the show with another familiar face, and they were talking to each other about what had changed and what hadn't, so I'm thinking those familiar faces might be integrated into the show soon, or are permanent understudies.
 
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

So, today was probably the best TIO show I have ever been to. As many of you probably know, it was raining for a good chunk of the day. So, to protect ourselves from the wetness, we ran into the Festhaus. To our surprise, a show was going on. We sat down, and it all went uphill from there. People were really into the show, they were singing, yelling, banging on tables, it was great!!!! It really captured the spirit and excitement of a commonly over-looked but fantastically fun show. I was very happy!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nora, CastleOSullivan and Zachary
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

Matthew said:
For anybody who was wondering, it looks like TIO's all day performance is Tuesday now. I don't know about the summer-time, but Spring Break's is Tuesday.

Source
Click to expand...

The show schedule for the coming week has just been released. TIO's all day performance will continue to be on Tuesdays, and Entwined's all day performance will be on Wednesday. Click the link quoted above for more information.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Applesauce
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

Anyways, here's the new sign. It also says "Auf Wiedersehen," on the back.

uG6P29h.jpg
 
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

I can imagine one reason for that sign is because they want people to know they can get food there all day. Maybe food sales for the Festhaus dropped and this is one way of trying to fix that, by making sure people know food is there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrLaptop
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

Party Rocker said:
Maybe food sales for the Festhaus dropped and this is one way of trying to fix that, by making sure people know food is there.
Click to expand...

If people don't know food is being sold at the park's largest, signature eatery, that's pathetic.

#funchallenge
 
  • Like
Reactions: wombat96, CastleOSullivan, VACoasterFan and 5 others
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

Honestly, I can see being hesitant to walk into the Festhaus, while a show is on progress. In normal theaters, you are not allowed to interrupt on-going performances, because it is disruptive to both the performers and the audience. In fact, if I were ever inclined to eat there, I doubt I would be comfortable wandering in and then hunting down a seat, during a show.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mad Ludwig, Jesy, Party Rocker and 2 others
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

Well, I would agree with that with Entwined, because they have the lights off, and people are focusing on the stage, so I wouldn't feel that great walking in front of all those people, especially with it being dark. However, during TIO, the lights are on and the dancers are already wandering the floor for a majority of the show, meaning there's really no, one place where all the attention is centered, so you really wouldn't be disrupting all that much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mad Ludwig, CastleOSullivan, Applesauce and 1 other person
RE: This is Oktoberfest (1976 to 2011, 2013 to Present)

Well, the big sign for Entwined would confuse me if I were a visiting guest that had never been to the park. I would look at my map and think- oh it is a show- and walk on if the times did not match up with my schedule.

Back when it was just "Festhaus" with a smaller sign describing the shows, I think it is obvious it was more of an eatery with "bonus" shows verses a big theatrical production.

That is my theory anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alaria, Sky, Mad Ludwig and 14 others
You must log in or register to reply here.
Consider Donating to Hide This Ad