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acrossdapark said:
No interest at all. Further based on SEAS loans and liabilities that exceed the entire value of the park system by nearly $500M. Who's going to loan them money to build this?

Sure they have some operating capital, but if they spend that they essentially downgrade the stock and their ability to make payments on their liabilities to a point no one will continue loaning money when needed.

I mean seriously, they took issue at the financial aspects of keeping Darkastle open while adding a new VR ride. Does anyone honestly think they can handle this without reallocating park resources to keep something like this running when they can't even fully staff the current parks...

Not only the financial aspects of it all, SEAS needs to overall improve their management, parks, marketing and the perception of the system before they go expanding or spending money needlessly.

I could absolutely be wrong. In my opinion, the new SP park is a contractual agreement. Sesame Workshop wants another park. SEAS wants to keep the IP. To keep it, Sesame Workshop says they have to build a second Sesame Place. SEAS agrees because they have so much invested in EVERY park and needs to keep the IP. It'd be expensive removing all references when all but one park has themed rides, lands, signage, characters, etc..

Again could be totally wrong. This is simply my opinion on why SEAS is moving this new park.
 
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I'm fairly lucky in Fredericksburg. KD is 35 minutes down 95 from my exit and BGW is 1:30-1:45. Made the drive Sunday no problem. Before I moved to Fredericksburg I lived in Christiansburg which was essentially a place of coaster enthusiast hell. Carowinds 2.5+ hours. KD 3 hours, DW 3 hours, BGW 4 hours, SFA 5 hours. I was lucky to get to a park more than once a year if at all back then.
 
musicman3204 said:
acrossdapark said:
No interest at all. Further based on SEAS loans and liabilities that exceed the entire value of the park system by nearly $500M. Who's going to loan them money to build this?

Sure they have some operating capital, but if they spend that they essentially downgrade the stock and their ability to make payments on their liabilities to a point no one will continue loaning money when needed.

I mean seriously, they took issue at the financial aspects of keeping Darkastle open while adding a new VR ride. Does anyone honestly think they can handle this without reallocating park resources to keep something like this running when they can't even fully staff the current parks...

Not only the financial aspects of it all, SEAS needs to overall improve their management, parks, marketing and the perception of the system before they go expanding or spending money needlessly.

I could absolutely be wrong.  In my opinion, the new SP park is a contractual agreement.  Sesame Workshop wants another park.  SEAS wants to keep the IP.  To keep it, Sesame Workshop says they have to build a second Sesame Place.  SEAS agrees because they have so much invested in EVERY park and needs to keep the IP.  It'd be expensive removing all references when all but one park has themed rides, lands, signage, characters, etc..  

Again could be totally wrong.  This is simply my opinion on why SEAS is moving this new park.

Yes have seen about the contractual agreement. However that still doesn't override their financial issues adding in with staffing, management and marketing issues they can't seem to get in good order and stem the tide from Blackfish that still to this day haunts them..
 
Has anyone else noticed a increase in Sesame Place emails in the last week or so? I’m getting at least one a day and sometimes a couple. I searched and never received one until the 25 of last month. They are coming to the same address as BGW sends email to.
 
I haven't gotten one.

On the topic of the money part:
Sesame Workshop is a potential source for it. I would be willing to bet that they are just as interested in making sure this happens as SEAS is.

I've been trying to see how much a land at Disney costs (really Toy Story or Galazy's Edge), because we can figure that's going to be at least 2-3 times the price of something like this. And like I said a little bit ago, they can get used rides, re-purpose some rides from within the chain.

And frankly, if they are this far in formulating a plan, they've found the path to money for investing in this. They've done a cost benefit analysis and know that it's an investment they can make money off of.
 
Yea I agree they wouldn't be sending out all these things and drumming up our opinions if this wasn't doable from their end. I could be wrong but I would hope they (BGW management)would be smart enough to know before hand that they can pull it off if the need\want is there. It would be super embarrassing for them if not.
 
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WDWRLD said:
Has anyone else noticed a increase in Sesame Place emails in the last week or so? I’m getting at least one a day and sometimes a couple. I searched and never received one until the 25 of last month. They are coming to the same address as BGW sends email to.

I’ve actually been getting emails from several SEAS parks that generally don’t. In the case of Sesame Place, I figured it was because they open this month. On the other hand, since I am also getting targeted by random SeaWorld parks, maybe it is a chain-wide marketing push for the begining of the season?
 
I don't see it would be a huge cost to build. The rides are already in place in FoF (in the same location on the proposed map) They'd probably just get a refreshing and retheming. They don't have to be concerned about too much in the way of ground cleaning; it's a parking lot. I'd think the biggest outlay will be utilities,infastructure and parking facilities. Certainly not cheap, but a lot less than starting on a totally virgin piece of land.
 
Found this article from Orlando Weekly about park expansion in Williamsburg and Orlando.
https://m.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2018/04/03/a-leaked-survey-mightve-just-shown-us-where-seaworld-plans-to-build-its-next-theme-park
 
warfelg said:
I haven't gotten one.

On the topic of the money part:
Sesame Workshop is a potential source for it.  I would be willing to bet that they are just as interested in making sure this happens as SEAS is.

I've been trying to see how much a land at Disney costs (really Toy Story or Galazy's Edge), because we can figure that's going to be at least 2-3 times the price of something like this.  And like I said a little bit ago, they can get used rides, re-purpose some rides from within the chain.

And frankly, if they are this far in formulating a plan, they've found the path to money for investing in this.  They've done a cost benefit analysis and know that it's an investment they can make money off of.

Its going to be way more than 2-3 times as much. Toy Story Land will be fairly cheap in comparison but Star Wars is a extremely large investment. Pandora the World of Avatar came in at around half a billion dollars for 2 rides, one quick service, a drink stand and two bathrooms. I think its unfair to compare any regional park to Disney in both what they spend or the product they give for that amount.


Nicole said:
WDWRLD said:
Has anyone else noticed a increase in Sesame Place emails in the last week or so? I’m getting at least one a day and sometimes a couple. I searched and never received one until the 25 of last month. They are coming to the same address as BGW sends email to.

I’ve actually been getting emails from several SEAS parks that generally don’t.  In the case of Sesame Place, I figured it was because they open this month.  On the other hand, since I am also getting targeted by random SeaWorld parks, maybe it is a chain-wide marketing push for the begining of the season?
I started to get San Antonio emails after Carl left so it made me wonder if he borrowed the BGW mailing list. I never remember seeing a SP email in past years and I dont get anything from any other park except San Antonio. Maybe they are not connected but just weird timing.
 
WDWRLD said:
Its going to be way more than 2-3 times as much. Toy Story Land will be fairly cheap in comparison but Star Wars is a extremely large investment. Pandora the World of Avatar came in at around half a billion dollars for 2 rides, one quick service, a drink stand and two bathrooms. I think its unfair to compare any regional park to Disney in both what they spend or the product they give for that amount.

I agree comparing to disney is a bit unfair because Disney spends tons on their lands. But really 2 billion for that?? wow seems like they got cheated but what do i know lol
 
Peej1212 said:
WDWRLD said:
Its going to be way more than 2-3 times as much. Toy Story Land will be fairly cheap in comparison but Star Wars is a extremely large investment. Pandora the World of Avatar came in at around half a billion dollars for 2 rides, one quick service, a drink stand and two bathrooms. I think its unfair to compare any regional park to Disney in both what they spend or the product they give for that amount.

I agree comparing to disney is a bit unfair because Disney spends tons on their lands. But really 2 billion for that?? wow seems like they got cheated but what do i know lol
Half a Billion, so 500 million. But you get what you pay for, it opened on time and fully functioning. We spend an entire afternoon riding Flight of Passage and River Journey over and over a couple weeks before opening at it ran flawless. In fact they designed in show elements that they could use in the event of portions of the show breaking. The Containment room has various presentations based on how slow or fast the ride is running and the Shamen of Sound can be rolled back out of the guest view and a projection turned on as a backup.
 
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WDWRLD said:
Peej1212 said:
WDWRLD said:
Its going to be way more than 2-3 times as much. Toy Story Land will be fairly cheap in comparison but Star Wars is a extremely large investment. Pandora the World of Avatar came in at around half a billion dollars for 2 rides, one quick service, a drink stand and two bathrooms. I think its unfair to compare any regional park to Disney in both what they spend or the product they give for that amount.

I agree comparing to disney is a bit unfair because Disney spends tons on their lands. But really 2 billion for that?? wow seems like they got cheated but what do i know lol
Half a Billion, so 500 million. But you get what you pay for, it opened on time and fully functioning. We spend an entire afternoon riding Flight of Passage and River Journey over and over a couple weeks before opening at it ran flawless. In fact they designed in show elements that they could use in the event of portions of the show breaking. The Containment room has various presentations based on how slow or fast the ride is running and the Shamen of Sound can be rolled back out of the guest view and a projection turned on as a backup.
Oh ook i get it now. Then 500 million seems right since there were no flaws in the system and there were so may backups in case of a problem. Thanks for the info!
 
Not really comparing, but giving a point of reference that we know it's going to cost a lot less. I even said it there. Reason I brought it up is there's little precedent for constructing out an area not from scratch.

So let's say building out SPW would cost 1/4th that of Pandora, that would be $125,000,000; about $250 per square foot.

I guess the reason I bring that up is I've seen people talk here, and elsewhere about the cost and how's SEAS going to afford this. This isn't going to be as expensive as most think. I would bet with the work for this park, change in parking, repaving tram dropoff....$200million roughly? They can drop that some with used rides or moving rides with low ridership from other parks.

And lastly with the 'how will they afford'; like I said, wouldn't shock me if Sesame Workshop invested some to see this built. 2 parks with their name on the outside as opposed to another land? I bet they want it to happen just as much as anyone else.


WDWRLD said:
Half a Billion, so 500 million. But you get what you pay for, it opened on time and fully functioning. We spend an entire afternoon riding Flight of Passage and River Journey over and over a couple weeks before opening at it ran flawless. In fact they designed in show elements that they could use in the event of portions of the show breaking. The Containment room has various presentations based on how slow or fast the ride is running and the Shamen of Sound can be rolled back out of the guest view and a projection turned on as a backup.

That's also what happens when you take 6 years to develop and 3 years to build. It also didn't open on time, it opened 1 year late.
 
warfelg said:
Not really comparing, but giving a point of reference that we know it's going to cost a lot less.  I even said it there.  Reason I brought it up is there's little precedent for constructing out an area not from scratch.

So let's say building out SPW would cost 1/4th that of Pandora, that would be $125,000,000; about $250 per square foot.

I guess the reason I bring that up is I've seen people talk here, and elsewhere about the cost and how's SEAS going to afford this.  This isn't going to be as expensive as most think.  I would bet with the work for this park, change in parking, repaving tram dropoff....$200million roughly?  They can drop that some with used rides or moving rides with low ridership from other parks.

And lastly with the 'how will they afford'; like I said, wouldn't shock me if Sesame Workshop invested some to see this built.  2 parks with their name on the outside as opposed to another land?  I bet they want it to happen just as much as anyone else.

True i didnt think about sesame workshop kicking in funds either. I'm sure they would be more than happy to have the brand extended.
 
Peej1212 said:
WDWRLD said:
Peej1212 said:
WDWRLD said:
Its going to be way more than 2-3 times as much. Toy Story Land will be fairly cheap in comparison but Star Wars is a extremely large investment. Pandora the World of Avatar came in at around half a billion dollars for 2 rides, one quick service, a drink stand and two bathrooms. I think its unfair to compare any regional park to Disney in both what they spend or the product they give for that amount.

I agree comparing to disney is a bit unfair because Disney spends tons on their lands. But really 2 billion for that?? wow seems like they got cheated but what do i know lol
Half a Billion, so 500 million. But you get what you pay for, it opened on time and fully functioning. We spend an entire afternoon riding Flight of Passage and River Journey over and over a couple weeks before opening at it ran flawless. In fact they designed in show elements that they could use in the event of portions of the show breaking. The Containment room has various presentations based on how slow or fast the ride is running and the Shamen of Sound can be rolled back out of the guest view and a projection turned on as a backup.
Oh ook i get it now. Then 500 million seems right since there were no flaws in the system and there were so may backups in case of a problem. Thanks for the info!
I wouldnt say there were no flaws but they were taken care of with minimal effect of the finished product.


warfelg said:
Not really comparing, but giving a point of reference that we know it's going to cost a lot less.  I even said it there.  Reason I brought it up is there's little precedent for constructing out an area not from scratch.

So let's say building out SPW would cost 1/4th that of Pandora, that would be $125,000,000; about $250 per square foot.

I guess the reason I bring that up is I've seen people talk here, and elsewhere about the cost and how's SEAS going to afford this.  This isn't going to be as expensive as most think.  I would bet with the work for this park, change in parking, repaving tram dropoff....$200million roughly?  They can drop that some with used rides or moving rides with low ridership from other parks.

And lastly with the 'how will they afford'; like I said, wouldn't shock me if Sesame Workshop invested some to see this built.  2 parks with their name on the outside as opposed to another land?  I bet they want it to happen just as much as anyone else.


WDWRLD said:
Half a Billion, so 500 million. But you get what you pay for, it opened on time and fully functioning. We spend an entire afternoon riding Flight of Passage and River Journey over and over a couple weeks before opening at it ran flawless. In fact they designed in show elements that they could use in the event of portions of the show breaking. The Containment room has various presentations based on how slow or fast the ride is running and the Shamen of Sound can be rolled back out of the guest view and a projection turned on as a backup.

That's also what happens when you take 6 years to develop and 3 years to build.  It also didn't open on time, it opened 1 year late.

Yes, but the timeline was extended midway in the construction process not at the end because they couldnt get things to work. I think it was worth the wait.
 
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I don't know how much money Sesame Workshop has to throw around. They could have plenty for all I know, but as a nonprofit maybe not. I know HBO picked up the rights to Sesame Street, but I don't know what they paid.
 
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