Sesame Place Williamsburg

[GrandpaD]

Ive heard there is so much unexploded ordinance over there they dont want to mess with that land.

That's the Camp Wallace site. But the unsafe areas are closer to the James River. https://projects.propublica.org/bombs/installation/VA39799F7758009799

Camp Wallace - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

FYI trivia - the backstage service road that runs from the Caribou Station to the Boneyard/Drachen Fire site is "Camp Wallace Rd."

To increase parking - why not the tree area between France and England and increase the spaces in Scotland/Bavaria?

 

[thopping]

Yeah, I was going to suggest maybe Camp Wallace was what was he was thinking about, but wasn't sure since that's relatively no where near there and no more an issue for the referenced area than for the park itself.

As for the wooded areas above, the main park side I think overlaps with theoretical SP land, but with the Scotland I think you're definitley on to something. That's really the best option. So I amend to say make do with what they have, to include reconfigurations for ADA [and expansions of existing lots], prove out attendance, and if warranted, plan a longer term solution like garages. All of that more likely I think than the area I highlighted, but that is technically possible, especially if they have grander plans that we're aware of. But I don't think practically they do right now, and they can always add that later.

 

[GrandpaD]

From the map on the first page of this thread, the tree area parkside is denoted as "future expansion". I could foresee them utilizing it as a quick fix parking expansion until such time they need the space...then we're talking structures.

So, if WCUSA has the land (and SP comes) that is where I could see a hotel. Buses (a la Disney) for guests armed with some sort of 3 gate package.

 

[warfelg]

In regards to parking...we don't know if BGW property already exceeds the required government ratio. If they do, then the structure is moot. If they had to build a structure-"as of March 2018, our statistical data indicates that the median construction cost for a new parking structure is $20,450 per space and $61.52 per square foot". If they do build, maybe it's in Scotland/Bavaria, which is in York County, where they might have less covenants. But, rest assured, if you lose France Parking then England will have a lot of handicap spaces to make up the loss. FYI, the France lot is approximately 1,300 spaces.

Further, I could see lower tier annual passes lose the free parking benefit. Maybe 50% off at best.

Actually you can find out easily. JCC/State of Va will tell you how many spots per occupancy you need, you can easily find max occupancy of BGW, and the number of spots. Divide spots by occupants and voila.

On top of that ADA tells you what percent needs to be ADA-Accessable and distances allowed. Again the BGW filings must tell you how many ADA spots they have.

On top of that, all this information is legally required to be available to the public for health and safety reasons.

 

[GrandpaD]

I realize the info is available and downloaded it. Obviously, there isn't an "amusement park" subsection. Closest I saw was for retail and other commercial, which was 1 space per 100 square ft of occupied square footage. For "industrial" it requires 1 space per 2.5 employees at peak shift. Since I'm not actually designing anything and was merely being conversational, I'll forego further research. ?

Edit - I did find that BGW expanded the Scotland/Bavaria lots in late 2013 bringing the total to 7,641 spaces for the park.

 

[warfelg]

We're looking at retail/other commercial for BGW. Depending on what they consider 'occupied sq footage,' you are looking at ~4.8million sqft. They have 7600 parking spots.

Now here's where the math becomes important. With SPW that jumps to 5.8 million, but they also lose 141 ADA spaces, another roughly 950 will be lost from regular passing. Now consider that they would lose 282 spaces to convert to ADA spaces, and you would be losing roughly 1,232 spaces. Now factor in the BGW has 11 dedicated bus spots, but often can take up about half the England lot accounting for another 300 spots. Now you got under the number of spots that you need with both there.

 

[GrandpaD]

Sounds good to me.

Let's crank up the bulldozers!

 

[WDWRLD]

That's the Camp Wallace site. But the unsafe areas are closer to the James River. https://projects.propublica.org/bombs/installation/VA39799F7758009799

Camp Wallace - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

FYI trivia - the backstage service road that runs from the Caribou Station to the Boneyard/Drachen Fire site is "Camp Wallace Rd."

To increase parking - why not the tree area between France and England and increase the spaces in Scotland/Bavaria?

View attachment 14081

Im not really sure but during the last "expansion/redo" of the overflow lot just about all that area circled was dug up and graded, I think its is possibly a stormwater area.

Now when talking about busses, there is no reason they cant have a dedicated dropoff and pickup area and then the bus drives to a remote site to park. This would bring up the need for some type of scheduling of dropoff and pickups so as not all the busses are loading at once.

Edited to add about Camp Wallace. Im not sure about any of it but I heard mention from many old timers about the land directly across Rhine River from Apollo was at one time used as a bombing range. Heck, I had never heard the Camp Wallace name before this above post.

 

[GrandpaD]

Im not really sure but during the last "expansion/redo" of the overflow lot just about all that area circled was dug up and graded, I think its is possibly a stormwater area.

Now when talking about busses, there is no reason they cant have a dedicated dropoff and pickup area and then the bus drives to a remote site to park. This would bring up the need for some type of scheduling of dropoff and pickups so as not all the busses are loading at once.

I'm not sure as I've not been in the overflow area. I just pulled the image from the latest Google maps (I know the image is rather new as it also shows a new generator BGW installed this past season). Even so, they could (if needed) redo again addressing runoff.

I agree about the buses. @warfelg's calculations show they could accommodate them in a portion of the unused overflow area.

 

[halfabee]

Not a big deal for a surface lot. And they can configure it easily to avoid paving over it.

I wasn't talking about the paving... I was referring to the digging and trenching necessary to route a big fat pipeline through that plot.

 

[VonDerrick]

few points

1 - the park doesnt have JCC operate the traffic light, they are only there for show. the tram's traffic signal is tied into the traffic light already.

2 - they could easily build a walking path with a pedestrian bridge from the overflow lots to the park

3 - the 'camp wallace' area people keep refering to across from apollo is not filled with unexploded ordiance. they don't use it because there is no way to connect to the park atm, plus do you realize how expensive an expansion that would be, power grids, bridges, etc.

4 - monorails are extremely expensive, especailly maintenance wise, not that disney doesnt care about the cost though, they spent more than its worth retrofitting their monorails with automatic controls instead of going the cheaper route of getting new monorail trains. according to rumor they also had plans to expand the monorail to the airport and cruise lines port but the govt shut that down - either way BGW is part of a failing compnay that seems to be barely making profit if any, therefore they arent shelling out any money for a monorail anytime soon

5 - the new 'grass' spaces that were most recently added have some new kind of eco-friendly pavement that helps with better drainage and such, though it looks like regular gravel and grass.

6 - the park hasnt even repaved any of the lots in years, the bavaria and scotland lots are all original pavement, due to cost alone, they didnt even want to redo the france lot so they basically painted over it instead to save money. you cant even see parking lines on the overflow lots

for parking in general, the park is not going to do much.

what they should do if they want real expansion is buy back all the marquis plots and put thew new park over there where it can have its own parking. the park could then setup a cheap transport system like buses that can take people between the parks. but this still requires a ton of effort and money

 

[GrandpaD]

Re: 1. - Show or not, they still feel it necessary to pay for their presence. They also have to consider brewery traffic using that intersection.

Re: 2. - The idea of a tram bridge over 60 could be for both. Although they'd have to construct dedicated pedestrian walkways on the park side of 60. Right now, people walking from overflow create a nightmare for the tram and traffic folks.

Re: 3. - Camp Wallace is not that area. It is along the shore of the James, as shown in the links I posted. I believe the rumored ordinance area was confused, hence my reference. I agree with you the area across the Rhine would not be conceivable for expansion.

 

[BGWnut]

monorails are extremely expensive, especailly maintenance wise, not that disney doesnt care about the cost though, they spent more than its worth retrofitting their monorails with automatic controls instead of going the cheaper route of getting new monorail trains. according to rumor they also had plans to expand the monorail to the airport and cruise lines port but the govt shut that down - either way BGW is part of a failing compnay that seems to be barely making profit if any, therefore they arent shelling out any money for a monorail anytime soon

Monorails are expensive and Disney does care about the price. The cost of expanding their monorail is one of the reasons why they are instead building a gondola system instead of adding on to their existing monorail

Also I think that to say that BGW is part of a failing company is pretty off base after the last year. The Company had a really good year and has turned a corner. Also the company is shelling out a lot of money for projects. Perhaps you are unaware of all the rides being built this year and next year. Next year includes some massive roller coasters. Monorails just aren't worth the investment. If they were then Disney would have expanded their own line.

 

[Zimmy]

one or two up quarters or even an up year does not negate a long term downward trend. Don't get me wrong I am trilled they have, for now at least, show progress but they are about to start some massive capital projects. That is a credit, and can be expensive. They will need to continue moving north to be able to pay the banks.

 

[BGWnut]

I was not disputing that but I think they have shown they are not a failing company. I think they were potentially going that way but have shown over the last year and half that they are not going that way anymore

 

[tursiops]

This is a complete guess on my part, but could the kids removed from Oktoberfest and lotd be removed to be rethemed for sesame?

 

[Zimmy]

nothing new at Sesame.... so far

 

[Shane]

Thanks Gavin, but lets look even bigger everyone...

So we know a SeaWorld could survive here, based on Gavin's post, but SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment could do even more. The England parking lot is perfectly situated between SeaWorld (the brewery) and Busch Gardens. It would make a perfect portal to both parks as an Entertainment and Shopping Hub. Additionally thanks to the guys in the chatroom they could even extend the ramp that connects the park to 64 to WCUSA so that buses can shuttle between the Entertainment Complex/Parks and the waterpark. Take a look below:

I had actually come up with a plan for parking and a more direct connection to WaterCountry USA back in 2012 when the rumors were flying around that AB-InBev was going to close/sell the Williamsburg Brewery. Of course all of this was pre-Blackfish Backlash, I wouldn't suggest this kind of project today. Some of what I had come up with really would work well for Sesame Place Williamsburg with some adjustments.

 

[tursiops]

I'm beginning to wonder if the agreement with Sesame Workshop has been amended. Possibly the major Sesame overhaul in Florida was deemed adequate, at least temporarily. That said, I still think these missing kids rides could be getting redone and could show up again somewhere. It would be cheaper than buying new and seems to be one way of maybe meeting the deadline. I wonder if any other SEAS parks have lost children's rides this year? It seems like an announcement about the second park has got to be soon though, the deadline for completion is barely over two years away.

 

[BGWnut]

The expansion at SeaWorld Orlando was also part of that agreement as well so I don't think it's been amended. I do think that is possible that we see the contract reupped before 2021 to allow for more time if necessary. I get the feeling that SEAS us currently more focused on building out their current parks instead of building new ones which are much more financially risky.