Sesame Place Williamsburg

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Gavin said:
There’s space at WCUSA for more parking.
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I have spent the past few weeks compiling data on the property BGW and WCUSA sit on. It's a rather massive amount of data, so much so that I actually stumbled accross it 2 years ago but forgot. :blush: Anyway the data was compiled by James City County and York County, from public records; and...
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Wouldn't that be awful far the transport people to BGW?
b.mac said:
Remember they do have the Scotland lot that has rarely been used in the last 15 or so years, so all they may have to do is get JCC approval for traffic updates. Beyond that I remember discussion about a parking garage but that was mostly speculation.
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True, I'm just not certain if this lot was already computed in the ratio requirement. And I recall the speculation of a garage or two.
 
I’m the one that brought up the idea of a garage. I know it’s expensive but I got my offset:

4 level garage in the England lot. Special base level entrance for busses on that level. Covered at the top with solar panels.

Now you can sell 3 levels of 150 spots that are shaded premium spots for $35-40 a day($10 upgrade to members of mid tier or higher). That will more than easily pay for the cost of the garage. Especially shaded parking in the dead of summer in Virginia. Then sell Germany as the new upgraded lot by repaving, slightly wider spots with its own entrance (far right lane has an redesigned offshoot straight into the lot) and make an “exclusive access” entrance by EfP/FoF area. Parking there $30/day or $5 upgrade to members. Italy and Ireland lots pricing stay the same. Repair Scotland and Barvaria lots, add in underground water retention, $10 parking and if you are a member that parks there you get a free QQ for that day.
 
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In regards to Scotland and Bavaria lots - if they did intend to use them on a regular basis I could foresee an elevated crossing over Pocahontas Trail for the trams. Presently they have to hire JCC to manually operate the traffic lights.
 
b.mac said:
Remember they do have the Scotland lot that has rarely been used in the last 15 or so years
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They use that lot quite often actually.

warfelg said:
I’m the one that brought up the idea of a garage. I know it’s expensive but I got my offset:

4 level garage in the England lot. Special base level entrance for busses on that level. Covered at the top with solar panels.

Now you can sell 3 levels of 150 spots that are shaded premium spots for $35-40 a day($10 upgrade to members of mid tier or higher). That will more than easily pay for the cost of the garage. Especially shaded parking in the dead of summer in Virginia. Then sell Germany as the new upgraded lot by repaving, slightly wider spots with its own entrance (far right lane has an redesigned offshoot straight into the lot) and make an “exclusive access” entrance by EfP/FoF area. Parking there $30/day or $5 upgrade to members. Italy and Ireland lots pricing stay the same. Repair Scotland and Barvaria lots, add in underground water retention, $10 parking and if you are a member that parks there you get a free QQ for that day.
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I dont see BGW spending the money for garages. I also dont think people would jump on the idea of paying $40 a day to park in a garage or $30 for surface if other options were there. I as a memeber or passholder or whatever you want to call it dont want to pay anything more to park. I already pay for platinum for the preferred parking and we go to the parks many times for just a quick stop of a couple hours a few times a week. They need more parking as it is now and adding a new 3rd gate would just make the problem much worse. I also never see them making that 3rd gate...they rely too heavily on the preschool passes to get adults into the park to spend cash on food. If they make it easier for them to just go into SS for the kids to tire themselves out they will go there for a couple hours and just go home.
 
WDWRLD said:
I also never see them making that 3rd gate...they rely too heavily on the preschool passes to get adults into the park to spend cash on food. If they make it easier for them to just go into SS for the kids to tire themselves out they will go there for a couple hours and just go home.
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^That is what I don't have a good data on, i.e. what is the impact to BGW attendance if FoF is split off for SP? Anyone have any? Or whatever happened to the survey--any results leak about who or why people may go to a theorized SP?

I struggle to think there's a huge amount of guests that are only at BGW essentially for FoF because the kids got a free pass to the park, and if there were a SP, they'd never go to the main park. Maybe they would go to one or the other more exclusively as a function of how old the kids are, but that's probably the park's intent--fill SP with more kids/families who will grow up and then fill the main park later (with some struggle perhaps where you have kids that straddle the line, but you can easily do a 2-park / park hopper plan and literally walk over to the other park). As for first hand experience, I had a couple of Preschool Passes and we got full use of the park, caveated that as I've mentioned before, there aren't that many mid-level rides. We actually spent less time in FoF; sure, rode the rides, but as I've noted, the kids have never really cared for CTW characters. LoD, and some of the other flats scattered around were actually more interesting.

That's not to say @WDWRLD's hypothesis isn't true, I just don't have facts to counter my impression of the situation. What I do have facts on are their CTW agreement, and they have to SPs "somewhere..." and all of the regulatory and parking challenges aside (which aren't necessarily easier in other locations)... a FoF -> SP in the France Parking lot has to be one of the cheaper options to "check the box" on the agreement, lower risk to fall back to a BGW kids land (FoF or rebranded post CTW), and who knows, may actually deliver increased overall attendance. I made that point a while back, i.e. though I don't care for SP, it kinda is a lower risk easy button, given the situation.

As for the parking---think @warfelg's idea above is great, I'm just skeptical as in my experience companies/municipalities/colleges/etc. are loath to put in parking garages for some reason, even when the math seemingly indicates it should pay for itself. I have some thoughts on why (it's actually several reasons), but that's for another post or thread...
 
If they get rid of parking they have to make it up somewhere. Believe it or not their current setup barely makes the minimum based on distance.

And people would absolutely pay those prices.
 
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thopping said:
As for the parking---think @warfelg's idea above is great, I'm just skeptical as in my experience companies/municipalities/colleges/etc. are loath to put in parking garages for some reason, even when the math seemingly indicates it should pay for itself. I have some thoughts on why (it's actually several reasons), but that's for another post or thread...
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Again given my urban planning background I can tell you 99.9% of the time the issue isn’t cost (mostly because the $/sqft is amazing in a garage vs flat land and you got more space to do other things); it’s safety. A parking garage is harder to monitor/patrol than a flat lot.
 
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That's one of those larger reasons, yes, and in my experience with colleges in particular. I've worked for / consulted to local governments on planning issues previously as well, in a prior life, before doing what I do now.

In any event, I agree with you that it is a great idea. And I don't view the objections in quite the same way. I just think the park would consider multiple alternatives and challenge the team to come up with more, before making such an investment.
 
Another factor on parking--not to get too far off the SP topic--but interesting data would be on premium versus standard parking adoption. I think @warfelg is right a percentage would absolutely pay those prices. I for one always did premium parking when the kids were little. Being able to load a stroller and roll right up to the gate versus deal with a tram was priceless.

edit: so that garage would need a stroller-friendly elevator perhaps...
 
RE: Strollers and handicap.

This is hardly a new issues for parking garages. Chaos knows we have them at the ocean front and all over Norfolk.

For the park, a series of ramps, escalators, and elevators would probably suffice.

thopping said:
That's one of those larger reasons, yes, and in my experience with colleges in particular. I've worked for / consulted to local governments on planning issues previously as well, in a prior life, before doing what I do now.

In any event, I agree with you that it is a great idea. And I don't view the objections in quite the same way. I just think the park would consider multiple alternatives and challenge the team to come up with more, before making such an investment.
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Not for nothing, by my University, Shenandoah has put in 2 different garages over the past 10 years. ODU has put in at least one, and I know at UVA they have several.
 
I guess if you added the fact of more parking requiring a tram ride then im sure more people would pay more to park closer. I say I wouldnt pay more but then again we are there a few times a week and I havent ridded a tram in probably 10 years.
 
In regards to parking...we don't know if BGW property already exceeds the required government ratio. If they do, then the structure is moot. If they had to build a structure-"as of March 2018, our statistical data indicates that the median construction cost for a new parking structure is $20,450 per space and $61.52 per square foot". If they do build, maybe it's in Scotland/Bavaria, which is in York County, where they might have less covenants. But, rest assured, if you lose France Parking then England will have a lot of handicap spaces to make up the loss. FYI, the France lot is approximately 1,300 spaces.

Further, I could see lower tier annual passes lose the free parking benefit. Maybe 50% off at best.
 
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I've said this elsewhere, but what if they extended Busch Gardens Blvd past I-64 (where it currently terminates) and connected it to WCUSA's parking lot? Maybe even rework the road so the median is a tram lane or (if they want to go fancy) some sort of tracked transport, like a monorail. I'm sure they could find space to build more parking over by WCUSA to assist with the increase in guests over at BGW/Sesame Place.
 
Or... just create a new parking lot over here...

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PS: not saying that's a great idea, just a possibility. Personally, assuming a SP, I think they will make do with what they have, to include Scotland/Bavaria of course (and yes, to include reconfiguring for ADA, etc.), maybe worst case WCUSA bus overflow, and see how it goes. Couple years in, if attendance warrants, build a garage. i.e. garage doesn't come with SP launch day 1, even if they do plan a garage. IMHO.

Now what the above space would open up.... is potential for hotel space, additional hamlets, and a second park entrance to them (maybe exclusive to hotel guests, etc.). But that's another thread....

edit: heck, sell the Scotland/Bavaria lot and put the money into developing the above (or a garage)... The land for those lots was assessed at a value of $4M+ last I checked; who knows what it would get on the market.
 
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EdReedFan20 said:
I've said this elsewhere, but what if they extended Busch Gardens Blvd past I-64 (where it currently terminates) and connected it to WCUSA's parking lot? Maybe even rework the road so the median is a tram lane or (if they want to go fancy) some sort of tracked transport, like a monorail. I'm sure they could find space to build more parking over by WCUSA to assist with the increase in guests over at BGW/Sesame Place.
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If Disney has come to the conclusion that expanidng the monorail system is too expensive then I highly doyby BGW would be willing to fork out that investment for a operation that wouldnt be needed year round. Also, building a elevated roadway that would cross I64 as well as the train tracks wide enough to have two way tram traffic as well as the lanes that are currently there would be a astronimical cost. Then you might run into the fact the state then sees the trams as over the road vehicles thats if VDOT even would approve such a mixed use structure.
 
thopping said:
Or... just create a new parking lot over here...

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PS: not saying that's a great idea, just a possibility. Personally, assuming a SP, I think they will make do with what they have, to include Scotland/Bavaria of course (and yes, to include reconfiguring for ADA, etc.), maybe worst case WCUSA bus overflow, and see how it goes. Couple years in, if attendance warrants, build a garage. i.e. garage doesn't come with SP launch day 1, even if they do plan a garage. IMHO.

Now what the above space would open up.... is potential for hotel space, additional hamlets, and a second park entrance to them (maybe exclusive to hotel guests, etc.). But that's another thread....

edit: heck, sell the Scotland/Bavaria lot and put the money into developing the above (or a garage)... The land for those lots was assessed at a value of $4M+ last I checked; who knows what it would get on the market.
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Ive heard there is so much unexploded ordinance over there they dont want to mess with that land.
 
WDWRLD said:
Ive heard there is so much unexploded ordinance over there they dont want to mess with that land.
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Yet the Colonial Pipeline runs right through it.

Either it’s not really that big a deal after all, or, uhh...
 
WDWRLD said:
If Disney has come to the conclusion that expanidng the monorail system is too expensive then I highly doyby BGW would be willing to fork out that investment for a operation that wouldnt be needed year round.
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Yeah, I agree. They bus people from WCUSA if anything. No bridge or tram connectivity. The Mouse is a good example of what's feasible or not economically for mass transit between parks.
 
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