News Project 2027/Purple: Delayed “World Record Breaking Coaster" (Phantom Spire?)

[northdetective]

People are acting like we’re getting a boring clone or something. It’s a (likely) 400ft+ one of a kind custom coaster from an elite manufacturer. If this was made by Intamin, the narrative would be very different.

The design is the same as that of a coaster featured in a Kings Island survey from like 3 years ago scaled up 150 feet. I don't think the manufacturer would change any part of the perception if the layout were the same, but I also don't think Intamin would pitch something like this to follow up KK.

Edit: it was one year ago. the only site specificity evident in the layout is the angle at which the stall is gonna turn

 

[Fiender]

People are acting like we’re getting a boring clone or something. It’s a (likely) 400ft+ one of a kind custom coaster from an elite manufacturer. If this was made by Intamin, the narrative would be very different.

If it were made by Intamin I would be a lot more worried about the potential downtime, tbf

 

[amperedragon]

How were these the only three options? Why was building a normal Mack spinner or gasp! a custom layout a complete impossibility?

It's not a complete impossibly, but logistically doesn't make a lot of sense. Let's take a look at how this would play out...

The project timeline for building a major roller coaster, especially one requiring custom design work, is typically in the 3-5 year frame. It's reasonable to assume that everything related to this project happened after the merger was finalized, so even if the first call made was to Mack it's very likely they would have been given a delivery date of 2029 for a custom Xtreme Spinning Coaster. However, it's also reasonable to assume the tower concept was already in development by Cedar Fair for one of their properties, so let's say they'd contracted with Mack for a delivery of that ride in time for the 2026 season. Under that timeline, it would have been pretty close to the point where things need to be committed and can't be easily adjusted at the time of the merger in mid 2024.

Let's say Six Flags called up Mack and said "Hey, we've just finalized the merger and we'd like to take that tower coaster and rework it for another property. Instead, we'd like to do a more traditional spinning coaster, but we still want it to break records. Do you think you can do that for us?" Most likely, the response would be something along the lines of "Yes, but because we're going to need to essentially start over, we can't commit to the original timeline and it's going to be at least 50% more than we previously quoted you." Now, you're looking at adding years onto the timeline for replacement of a very iconic roller coaster. Thus, we'll counter with "Well, we really need this ride asap as it's going to be replacing the biggest attraction at the park and we've already committed to tearing that down at the end of the season. What can you do to enhance this and give us something even more special?" Mack might then respond with "Well, we could probably scale it up for 20-25% extra, and while we'll try to meet your original timeline, if there are delays they'll be in months rather than years." Six Flags asks "Can you go double the size to make it over 400 ft." Mack replies "Ja." Contract signed. I'm not going to say I know that's exactly how this played out, but I'd hazard a guess it's probably in the ballpark.

Now, let's pretend Mack said they could do a normal Xtreme Spinning Coaster for the same price and on the same timeline that Six Flags wanted. They're still using it to replace North America's tallest and fastest thrill ride. Which of these sounds more likely to bring in the public?

Option #1: Coming to SFGAdv, the world's tallest and fastest spinning coaster. Featuring 3,500 ft. of track, this coaster will launch you twirling through five inversions at speeds of over 60 mph and heights up to 150 ft. It's the first ride of it's kind in the northeastern United States!

Option #2: Coming to SFGAdv, the world's tallest and fastest spinning coaster. Accelerate to over 100 mph on the world's first upside down launch, then rocket nearly 400 ft. into the sky whilst twirling like a top the whole way through. It's the first ride of its kind in the world!

Personally, the second sounds like it has a lot more of a wow factor, especially for someone not widely coater literate but who knows the scale of Kingda Ka.

A big issue I have is how closely the concept mirrors Kingda Ka while watering the experience down for a very visible gimmick (spinning). For anyone who has ridden Kingda Ka, an 80 mph lsm launch will feel notably different than the hydraulic 128 mph.

Yes, it bears some similarity to Kingda Ka, but I think the ride experience is likely to be so different that any point of comparison is negligible in the eyes of the public. This is not a Top Thrill 2 situation, where a mild swing launch was installed to replace an aggressive hydraulic launch and the rest of the coaster remained largely the same. This is a brand new ride of a very different design that just so happens to incorporate a very tall tower into its layout.

If for some reason I don't understand I could only do one of these three things, I'd have picked the dive coaster, if only because it doesn't at all seem to be aspiring toward what Kingda Ka was. I actually think they could've sold a dive to the public as a GL replacement and promise something actually worthwhile will be coming down the road to replace KK. The height of Tormenta wouldve been enough to differentiate it from Iron Menace, but the layout is substantial enough that it doesn't feel like it exists for just for superlative titles.

I think there is a valid argument in favor of the dive, namely that it would give SFGAdv a giant record-breaking coaster with much better capacity and a more well rounded experience. The difficulty in marketability is that between NJ, NY, and PA, there are already seven different coasters that utilize a vertical/beyond vertical drop as a major marketing point, including the world's steepest coaster just up the state. However, these rides are known crowd pleasers that do well in almost any market, and particularly if Six Flags didn't have long term interest in Dorney there wouldn't be too much downside to the ride. That said, you only get one coaster...you don't get a dive for Green Lantern and a second coaster for Kingda Ka (at least not before the end of the decade).

For the record, I think a dive like Tormenta would be a strong addition for SFGAdv. Despite the park's already impressive collection of B&Ms, I think it would have a very realistic shot at being in the top four for many and would absolutely draw locals back to the park. However, in this day and age, it is not the type of attraction that can make a park into a destination. I feel this spinning tower coaster is something that can probably do that, as it really is something that doesn't exist anywhere else on Earth and should provide a one of a kind experience. Plus, I see very good odds of it getting the silver or bronze among the park's coaster collection among most.

 

[fingerblaster22]

For the record, I think a dive like Tormenta would be a strong addition for SFGAdv

Well the Green Lantern plot sure is wide open right now lol. Then again so is most of KA's old plot.

 

[northdetective]

It's not a complete impossibly, but logistically doesn't make a lot of sense. Let's take a look at how this would play out...

The project timeline for building a major roller coaster, especially one requiring custom design work, is typically in the 3-5 year frame. It's reasonable to assume that everything related to this project happened after the merger was finalized, so even if the first call made was to Mack it's very likely they would have been given a delivery date of 2029 for a custom Xtreme Spinning Coaster. However, it's also reasonable to assume the tower concept was already in development by Cedar Fair for one of their properties, so let's say they'd contracted with Mack for a delivery of that ride in time for the 2026 season. Under that timeline, it would have been pretty close to the point where things need to be committed and can't be easily adjusted at the time of the merger in mid 2024.

Let's say Six Flags called up Mack and said "Hey, we've just finalized the merger and we'd like to take that tower coaster and rework it for another property. Instead, we'd like to do a more traditional spinning coaster, but we still want it to break records. Do you think you can do that for us?" Most likely, the response would be something along the lines of "Yes, but because we're going to need to essentially start over, we can't commit to the original timeline and it's going to be at least 50% more than we previously quoted you." Now, you're looking at adding years onto the timeline for replacement of a very iconic roller coaster. Thus, we'll counter with "Well, we really need this ride asap as it's going to be replacing the biggest attraction at the park and we've already committed to tearing that down at the end of the season. What can you do to enhance this and give us something even more special?" Mack might then respond with "Well, we could probably scale it up for 20-25% extra, and while we'll try to meet your original timeline, if there are delays they'll be in months rather than years." Six Flags asks "Can you go double the size to make it over 400 ft." Mack replies "Ja." Contract signed. I'm not going to say I know that's exactly how this played out, but I'd hazard a guess it's probably in the ballpark.

Now, let's pretend Mack said they could do a normal Xtreme Spinning Coaster for the same price and on the same timeline that Six Flags wanted. They're still using it to replace North America's tallest and fastest thrill ride. Which of these sounds more likely to bring in the public?

Option #1: Coming to SFGAdv, the world's tallest and fastest spinning coaster. Featuring 3,500 ft. of track, this coaster will launch you twirling through five inversions at speeds of over 60 mph and heights up to 150 ft. It's the first ride of it's kind in the northeastern United States!

Option #2: Coming to SFGAdv, the world's tallest and fastest spinning coaster. Accelerate to over 100 mph on the world's first upside down launch, then rocket nearly 400 ft. into the sky whilst twirling like a top the whole way through. It's the first ride of its kind in the world!

Personally, the second sounds like it has a lot more of a wow factor, especially for someone not widely coater literate but who knows the scale of Kingda Ka.



Yes, it bears some similarity to Kingda Ka, but I think the ride experience is likely to be so different that any point of comparison is negligible in the eyes of the public. This is not a Top Thrill 2 situation, where a mild swing launch was installed to replace an aggressive hydraulic launch and the rest of the coaster remained largely the same. This is a brand new ride of a very different design that just so happens to incorporate a very tall tower into its layout.



I think there is a valid argument in favor of the dive, namely that it would give SFGAdv a giant record-breaking coaster with much better capacity and a more well rounded experience. The difficulty in marketability is that between NJ, NY, and PA, there are already seven different coasters that utilize a vertical/beyond vertical drop as a major marketing point, including the world's steepest coaster just up the state. However, these rides are known crowd pleasers that do well in almost any market, and particularly if Six Flags didn't have long term interest in Dorney there wouldn't be too much downside to the ride. That said, you only get one coaster...you don't get a dive for Green Lantern and a second coaster for Kingda Ka (at least not before the end of the decade).

For the record, I think a dive like Tormenta would be a strong addition for SFGAdv. Despite the park's already impressive collection of B&Ms, I think it would have a very realistic shot at being in the top four for many and would absolutely draw locals back to the park. However, in this day and age, it is not the type of attraction that can make a park into a destination. I feel this spinning tower coaster is something that can probably do that, as it really is something that doesn't exist anywhere else on Earth and should provide a one of a kind experience. Plus, I see very good odds of it getting the silver or bronze among the park's coaster collection among most.

Timmy's Halfpipe Havoc II is not a destination ride. In a world where people without morals can go ride Falcon's Flight for ~$2000, nobody who would travel for a roller coaster would pick a half-empty concrete pad getting eaten by the Pinelands from whence it rose over, for example, Cedar Point.

I don't think the dive would've made Great Adventure a destination either, but it would have provided a broadly appealing experience that shows great promise for the future. Instead, all we get are the assurances that this is the best that can be done, and that cookie-cutter linear shuttles are all we deserve.

As for the "improbability" of other options, I personally find that when a park cheaps out and refuses to build something sufficiently capacious or that offers a worthwhile experience, they are confident their customers are eyeless cattle ready to be milked for their FastPass dollars. With that being said, why was it scaled up at all if there's no intention to "replace" KK or live up to its reputation? If we can agree Flash is a mistake, why is Bigger, multiple times as expensive Flash any better? That's really the issue I see here; It's a mistake in the making that will prevent Great Adventure from digging itself out of a financial hole for at least another decade, and in my opinion, will bring nothing but disdain from repeatedly-insulted customers who refuse to wait 5 hours or even support the type of destruction that Six Flags is trying to make into a profitable model at Great Adventure. If they built this in California, I certainly wouldn't be traveling for it, and if they built this at SFDK, I would laugh it off as part of Cedar Flags' race to the bottom/engineered death spirals, because that's what it is in my opinion. It's just less laughable because it's my home park.

 

[wasteman]

Not sure if this is a hot take in here or not, but I really think this has potential to be one of the best coasters of all time. The launched stall, that outer-bank at the top, and a 400+ foot near vertical twisted drop, all while free spinning? That sounds absolutely insane to me. I’ll agree with the capacity argument (although I do think it’s a little bit overblown), but just looking at the ride experience I think this will be incredible. It’s a shame we couldn’t have found out about this coaster under better circumstances, because I think this would be received much better if it was going to another park.

 

[northdetective]

Not sure if this is a hot take in here or not, but I really think this has potential to be one of the best coasters of all time. The launched stall, that outer-bank at the top, and a 400+ foot near vertical twisted drop, all while free spinning? That sounds absolutely insane to me. I’ll agree with the capacity argument (although I do think it’s a little bit overblown), but just looking at the ride experience I think this will be incredible. It’s a shame we couldn’t have found out about this coaster under better circumstances, because I think this would be received much better if it was going to another park.

I mean, my number one is Boulder Dash so I'm sure what we value in a roller coaster is fairly different, but I think this perfectly embodies the positivity to the point of delusion. I don't see Mr Freeze, Flash, or Escape from Krypton in many top tens. I also think the spinning gimmick creates a not-insignificant class of people who are unwilling to ride due to dizziness concerns, and the outward banked turn will only be experienced by the front car if the renderings from the survey are accurate.

This roller coaster, in its 250-foot iteration, could have been a reasonable investment to bolster one of the smaller regional parks' lineups. It definitely would not be under this much scrutiny (from me or anyone else) if they put it in a park where the locals are less disgruntled, and where it was clear that it would not be intended to take the place of a widely-beloved roller coaster whose existence was just about the last remaining point of pride people had in the park, and then was very publicly demolished. People will not soon forget such gore of their comfort character, but unfortunately, Timmy II is tasked with distracting them. In isolation, it's still about as gimmicky as possible of a concept to conceive of, but in context, the inadequacy of the unannounced closure, public destruction, and at least 2 year delay in replacing Kingda Ka (not to mention everything else that isnt getting replaced) will not be overshadowed by a single ride.

So, local goodwill is burnt, and there's still not an ounce of destination appeal. I think Great Adventure will continue to be an inland detour for families headed to the shore, and little else, since even NJ schools have started organizing field trips to Hershey now.

 

[warfelg]

Personally I think it’s a little hot to say best of all time. While I’m glad this will be more than the 1.5 trick pony that KK was, what’s going to limit it is going to be the broadscale appeal.

For example - I don’t do free (or even controlled) spinning very well. I get really sick on Laff Trak and it’s going to be monumentally slower and maybe rotate less than this. Heck even GotGCW got to me a touch and that’s designed to direct you to look at certain things.

 

[michaellynn4]

There's definitely not enough information to make either of the crazy negative or crazy positive comments that we've seen here recently. Let's see what the actual coaster details and area refurbishment plans are first.

Phrase of the Day: "cautiously optimistic".

 

[RDL]

Personally I think it’s a little hot to say best of all time. While I’m glad this will be more than the 1.5 trick pony that KK was, what’s going to limit it is going to be the broadscale appeal.

For example - I don’t do free (or even controlled) spinning very well. I get really sick on Laff Trak and it’s going to be monumentally slower and maybe rotate less than this. Heck even GotGCW got to me a touch and that’s designed to direct you to look at certain things.

According to people that have been on extreme spinners, they don’t usually make you nauseous like other spinning rides do. I went on Shredder at Nick U and got really sick from that, but those that have been on rides like that say that the extreme spinners are hardly an issue. I hope they’re right!

 

[RDL]

Not sure if this is a hot take in here or not, but I really think this has potential to be one of the best coasters of all time. The launched stall, that outer-bank at the top, and a 400+ foot near vertical twisted drop, all while free spinning? That sounds absolutely insane to me. I’ll agree with the capacity argument (although I do think it’s a little bit overblown), but just looking at the ride experience I think this will be incredible. It’s a shame we couldn’t have found out about this coaster under better circumstances, because I think this would be received much better if it was going to another park.

It shouldn’t be a hot take at all. The only reason this ride has been a victim of constant bashing is due to the circumstances around Ka and its removal.

A 400ft extreme spinner with an upside down launch at 100mph sounds like it’d be one of the most intense coaster experiences on the planet. It’s hard for me to imagine just how insane it’ll end up being.

 

[warfelg]

According to people that have been on extreme spinners, they don’t usually make you nauseous like other spinning rides do. I went on Shredder at Nick U and got really sick from that, but those that have been on rides like that say that the extreme spinners are hardly an issue. I hope they’re right!

I did Time Traveler 2 years ago and had issues with it.

 

[RDL]

I think there is a valid argument in favor of the dive, namely that it would give SFGAdv a giant record-breaking coaster with much better capacity and a more well rounded experience. The difficulty in marketability is that between NJ, NY, and PA, there are already seven different coasters that utilize a vertical/beyond vertical drop as a major marketing point, including the world's steepest coaster just up the state. However, these rides are known crowd pleasers that do well in almost any market, and particularly if Six Flags didn't have long term interest in Dorney there wouldn't be too much downside to the ride. That said, you only get one coaster...you don't get a dive for Green Lantern and a second coaster for Kingda Ka (at least not before the end of the decade).

For the record, I think a dive like Tormenta would be a strong addition for SFGAdv. Despite the park's already impressive collection of B&Ms, I think it would have a very realistic shot at being in the top four for many and would absolutely draw locals back to the park. However, in this day and age, it is not the type of attraction that can make a park into a destination. I feel this spinning tower coaster is something that can probably do that, as it really is something that doesn't exist anywhere else on Earth and should provide a one of a kind experience. Plus, I see very good odds of it getting the silver or bronze among the park's coaster collection among most.

Dive machines are alright, but I’d MUCH rather see a vekoma tilt come here instead. Something like that would fit perfectly in GLs plot of land and in my opinion would catch people’s attention far more than a normal dive would.

Icing on top would be calling naming it after GASM, like that one planet coaster recreation did.

 

[amperedragon]

Timmy's Halfpipe Havoc II is not a destination ride.

Right off the bat, comparing this attraction to Timmy's Half-Pipe Havoc makes it very difficult to take your comments seriously and want to engage in discussion. It comes off as either 1. extreme negative bias, 2. poor understanding of marketability, or 3. deliberate trolling. But I'll try my best pretending that wasn't included.

In a world where people without morals can go ride Falcon's Flight for ~$2000, nobody who would travel for a roller coaster would pick a half-empty concrete pad getting eaten by the Pinelands from whence it rose over, for example, Cedar Point.

There are a lot of enthusiasts who lack the financial capabilities to make a trip to Saudi Arabia (me included), and there are even more who could afford the trip but refuse to go for other reasons. Are you implying that if you're not going to ride Falcons Flight you're not a legitimate enthusiast? Sure, Phantom Spire isn't going to suddenly make SFGAdv the top priority coaster destination for the enthusiasts of Europe, but for those whose reasonable travel range is restricted to the US or to the East Coast, it's absolutely going to be a top contender for their next itinerary (especially if they've already ridden most of the top coasters in the country).

I don't think the dive would've made Great Adventure a destination either, but it would have provided a broadly appealing experience that shows great promise for the future. Instead, all we get are the assurances that this is the best that can be done, and that cookie-cutter linear shuttles are all we deserve.

If a 400 ft. spinning shuttle coaster with an inverted launch is something you define as "cookie cutter," it probably would have been very difficult for any single coaster addition to be considered satisfactory. By that logic, Medusa is the only original concept at SFGAdv because it was the world's first floorless coaster, and since everything else is just a variation on an established model the park is a collection of "cookie cutter" attractions.

As for the "improbability" of other options, I personally find that when a park cheaps out and refuses to build something sufficiently capacious or that offers a worthwhile experience, they are confident their customers are eyeless cattle ready to be milked for their FastPass dollars. With that being said, why was it scaled up at all if there's no intention to "replace" KK or live up to its reputation? If we can agree Flash is a mistake, why is Bigger, multiple times as expensive Flash any better?

To me, cheaping out would be installing the original version of the shuttle without scaling it up or saying Flash was the replacement coaster. Cheaping out would also be going for a stock model coaster to replace a one of a kind record breaker. Getting a custom ride with world's first elements that almost certainly has a price tag north of $30 million is about as far from cheaping out as I can think of. If I pulled into the park and suddenly saw a giant tower that wasn't there last time I visited, I'd be very curious what sort of crazy new attraction the park was cooking. It wouldn't matter what it was or how much it costs, I'd just be excited to see something new.

That's really the issue I see here; It's a mistake in the making that will prevent Great Adventure from digging itself out of a financial hole for at least another decade, and in my opinion, will bring nothing but disdain from repeatedly-insulted customers who refuse to wait 5 hours or even support the type of destruction that Six Flags is trying to make into a profitable model at Great Adventure.

You're really losing me here. How is the biggest attraction the park has installed since El Toro going to prevent them from being successful? I suppose it could happen, but if it does, it probably would be due to either external factors (such as significant economic contraction) or a complete misunderstanding of what the visitors actually care about (in which case any type of roller coaster would likely have been a miss).

If they built this in California, I certainly wouldn't be traveling for it, and if they built this at SFDK, I would laugh it off as part of Cedar Flags' race to the bottom/engineered death spirals, because that's what it is in my opinion. It's just less laughable because it's my home park.

As a SoCal resident, I would be pretty darn excited if this were built at either of my local Six Flags properties. As a SoCal resident, this also has added SFGAdv back onto my list of parks to visit. My prior visit was in 2021, and Flash was not sufficient to add the park back on the list. Perfectly valid to not like the ride, in which case you don't have to ride it, but you should still be excited that Six Flags has decided to grace your home park with one of only a few major investments coming in the next couple years. That indicates they absolutely see it as a valuable property in their portfolio.

Not sure if this is a hot take in here or not, but I really think this has potential to be one of the best coasters of all time. The launched stall, that outer-bank at the top, and a 400+ foot near vertical twisted drop, all while free spinning? That sounds absolutely insane to me. I’ll agree with the capacity argument (although I do think it’s a little bit overblown), but just looking at the ride experience I think this will be incredible. It’s a shame we couldn’t have found out about this coaster under better circumstances, because I think this would be received much better if it was going to another park.

Best of all time? Probably not. Best in class? I'd consider that reasonably likely. I do agree with you about timing...if this were announced for SFGAdv at any other time except directly after closing Kingda Ka, or if this were announced for literally any other Six Flags park (except maybe Cedar Point), I think the community would be going bonkers over it. I don't think everyone is going to wind up loving it, but I think most are really going to want to try it out, and that's what you want in a major new thrill ride.

According to people that have been on extreme spinners, they don’t usually make you nauseous like other spinning rides do. I went on Shredder at Nick U and got really sick from that, but those that have been on rides like that say that the extreme spinners are hardly an issue. I hope they’re right!

From my experience, while Time Traveler wasn't as dizzying as a lot of other spinning coasters, it was still far from negligible. If you can handle a moderate amount of spinning, this shouldn't be an issue. If even light spinning tends to make you woozy, though, this is probably going to be a tough ride to handle. I'll also add that Shredder was one of the more nauseating spinners I've done, which may be due to the length of the ride.

Dive machines are alright, but I’d MUCH rather see a vekoma tilt come here instead. Something like that would fit perfectly in GLs plot of land and in my opinion would catch people’s attention far more than a normal dive would.

Icing on top would be calling naming it after GASM, like that one planet coaster recreation did.

A tilt would certainly be a more exciting addition, but that goes back to the capacity concern a lot have regarding SFGAdv. From videos I've seen, I'd guesstimate ~800 per hour is probably the best you're likely to do with a tilt coaster as the tilt track mechanism limits the interval to about 90 seconds in a best case scenario. By comparison, a good crew could probably get ~1,300 on a three train B&M dive as the main limiting factor is the length of the longest block, which could probably be designed to be around 60 seconds.

As a comparison to those numbers, I'd guesstimate 500-700 is probably the range we're looking at for the shuttle coaster concept (assuming two trains in a switching station). If accurate, that's really not far off from what many complete circuit coasters do with two trains.

 

[northdetective]

There are a lot of enthusiasts who lack the financial capabilities to make a trip to Saudi Arabia (me included), and there are even more who could afford the trip but refuse to go for other reasons. Are you implying that if you're not going to ride Falcons Flight you're not a legitimate enthusiast? Sure, Phantom Spire isn't going to suddenly make SFGAdv the top priority coaster destination for the enthusiasts of Europe, but for those whose reasonable travel range is restricted to the US or to the East Coast, it's absolutely going to be a top contender for their next itinerary (especially if they've already ridden most of the top coasters in the country).

This is unquestionably in worse faith than me calling the ride Timmy II, and your humorlessness disappoints me. I literally said the people traveling to Saudi Arabia have no morals. You made up whatever you wanted to construe from what I actually said lmao.

If a 400 ft. spinning shuttle coaster with an inverted launch is something you define as "cookie cutter," it probably would have been very difficult for any single coaster addition to be considered satisfactory. By that logic, Medusa is the only original concept at SFGAdv because it was the world's first floorless coaster, and since everything else is just a variation on an established model the park is a collection of "cookie cutter" attractions.

Also an intentional "misunderstanding." It's cookie cutter because the design was made for another park and altered slightly by angling the stall and adding height for superficial "records." There is absolutely no site specificity to the layout besides that.

To me, cheaping out would be installing the original version of the shuttle without scaling it up or saying Flash was the replacement coaster. Cheaping out would also be going for a stock model coaster to replace a one of a kind record breaker. Getting a custom ride with world's first elements that almost certainly has a price tag north of $30 million is about as far from cheaping out as I can think of. If I pulled into the park and suddenly saw a giant tower that wasn't there last time I visited, I'd be very curious what sort of crazy new attraction the park was cooking. It wouldn't matter what it was or how much it costs, I'd just be excited to see something new.

This is a stock model (like I just said, premade layout) modified slightly. Sure, that makes it technically custom, but it was not designed for the property initially. I also find the concept of "gratitude" to the corporation absolutely raucously hilarious. I pay for my admission, I am owed a quality experience. If I don't think I'll get one, I won't go.

You're really losing me here. How is the biggest attraction the park has installed since El Toro going to prevent them from being successful? I suppose it could happen, but if it does, it probably would be due to either external factors (such as significant economic contraction) or a complete misunderstanding of what the visitors actually care about (in which case any type of roller coaster would likely have been a miss).

Because "big" and "expensive" do not equate to "good" and people know that. I do believe it is a complete misunderstanding of what the visitors actually care about.

I absolutely stand by the fact that Great Adventure is nowhere near destination status anymore, and the Mack spinner won't restore it. There is an infinite amount of ways to spend money as a family, as a thoosie, or as a "GP normie" for entertainment, and most people know their money is not best spent traveling to, and staying at, the Red Roof Freehold, for a mediocre-at-best collection of rides that happens to also include El Toro.

 

[DWNitro]

This is unquestionably in worse faith than me calling the ride Timmy II, and your humorlessness disappoints me. I literally said the people traveling to Saudi Arabia have no morals. You made up whatever you wanted to construe from what I actually said lmao.


Also an intentional "misunderstanding." It's cookie cutter because the design was made for another park and altered slightly by angling the stall and adding height for superficial "records." There is absolutely no site specificity to the layout besides that.

This is a stock model (like I just said, premade layout) modified slightly. Sure, that makes it technically custom, but it was not designed for the property initially. I also find the concept of "gratitude" to the corporation absolutely raucously hilarious. I pay for my admission, I am owed a quality experience. If I don't think I'll get one, I won't go.

Because "big" and "expensive" do not equate to "good" and people know that. I do believe it is a complete misunderstanding of what the visitors actually care about.

Dude shut UPPPPPPPPP

 

[northdetective]

Dude shut UPPPPPPPPP

no <3

 

[Suspense]

How do you even know this is a cookie cutter pre made layout. It could’ve been a custom design from the start that was put together with Kings Island in mind and then moved to great adventure. I mean they clearly modified it a little. And even if it is a “cookie cutter” layout, I HIGHLY doubt we will be seeing a clone of this ride (which by the way, kingda ka basically had a clone). Are you boycotting kings island and Orion because it was (heavily rumored to be) a scaled up version of what CGA was going to get? I think you make some valid points but your complete unwillingness to concede on any point is why I think people are getting frustrated. One portion of your argument is that this is such a mistake nobody will be excited about it. Except literally everyone else in this thread besides you has shown some level of excitement for this attraction. At least this discussion has made this thread more interesting lol

 

[northdetective]

How do you even know this is a cookie cutter pre made layout. It could’ve been a custom design from the start that was put together with Kings Island in mind and then moved to great adventure. I mean they clearly modified it a little. And even if it is a “cookie cutter” layout, I HIGHLY doubt we will be seeing a clone of this ride (which by the way, kingda ka basically had a clone). Are you boycotting kings island and Orion because it was (heavily rumored to be) a scaled up version of what CGA was going to get? I think you make some valid points but your complete unwillingness to concede on any point is why I think people are getting frustrated. One portion of your argument is that this is such a mistake nobody will be excited about it. Except literally everyone else in this thread besides you has shown some level of excitement for this attraction. At least this discussion has made this thread more interesting lol

I mean I'm not boycotting Great Adventure rn, I have a 2026 season pass. I rode Orion this past summer and the people in the row behind me audibly asked "That's it?" on the brake run. So maybe I'd be pissed if it were my home park, idk, doesn't affect me, and I already don't give Kings Island any more money from my Great Adventure based All Park Passport than I do to any of the other properties (Upon reflection this is slightly untrue because I bought the blue ice cream and I usually don't eat inside parks). I couldn't boycott them more or less if I tried (besides straight up not visiting to deprive them of one attendee for their stats or not buying the blue ice cream. I don't regret it)

Edit: this would be a great post for some of you to like because it contains inoffensive banter/internal thoughts about blue ice cream. Sorry if that's off topic but I think thats lighthearted and maybe likeable ?

 

[Zachary]

I absolutely stand by the fact that Great Adventure is nowhere near destination status anymore, and the Mack spinner won't restore it

I want to attempt another bridge here.

We agree on this!

• SFGAdv isn't currently a destination park.
• SFGAdv has not been a very good locals/regional park.
• SFGAdv should be one of the best regional amusement parks in the country.
• SFGAdv could and probably should be a "destination"-ish amusement park (in the same vein as Cedar Point, Hersheypark, or Dollywood).
• Phantom Spire, as currently understood, is not a "destination ride" and will not make SFGAdv into a "destination park."

I think the place we diverge is that I don't believe it's possible to build a "destination ride" in the year 2026 in America at a conventional amusement park and, hence, there is no attraction which SFGAdv could buy which would turn them into a "destination park."

I cannot point to any coaster which has been built since Ka that, by itself, transformed a regional park into a nationally known entity. I believe the days where something like that could occur are now long behind us.

How did it happen the first time? Let's put ourselves into the shoes of people during the height of the coaster wars. At the turn of the millennium, coasters with 300ft drops were essentially unheard of but damn, breaking that height barrier was amazing. Then, all the sudden, in the mid-2000s, there are two coasters, Dragster and Ka, that came online and took the record all the way to the low-mid-400s—we're talking a CRAZY jump in height, speed, etc—and this was during a time when launches were still pretty novel too. Launching to over 100 miles per hour? That's fucking nuts in the mid-2000s.

The records weren't just broken during this period, they were shattered—and shattered by coasters that looked and felt nothing like what had been built before them. They got tons of mainstream news coverage, they got specials on the Travel Channel, they were on the cover of Popular Science, etc, etc—not just because they broke records, but because they shattered them and in entirely new and unique ways.

Truthfully, SFGAdv could build a 600ft tall coaster in a similar vein as Ka today and I don't even think it would break out into the public consciousness anywhere near as effectively as Dragster and Ka did in the mid-2000s simply because absurdly fast launches into absurdly high towers are a thing people have seen now. Yeah, the numbers would be bigger, but the methods are now conventional. What I'm saying is that I don't even think a 600ft tall launch coaster would be a "destination coaster" today.

Ultimately, I cannot point to any ride Six Flags could possibly build that would turn SFGAdv into a "destination park," but I'll go even further too—I don't believe SFGAdv should be trying to be a destination park just yet. Should it be their long-term plan? Certainly. That said, they need to become a great, high-quality, respected local park first—something Great Adventure has not managed to achieve for a very long time now. In other words, they need to make their way to the Kings Island and Carowinds stage before they can even think about pushing into the Cedar Point, Hersheypark, and Dollywood sphere.

Becoming a great regional park means replacing Ka, embarking on a good at least 10 years of reinvestment, rejuvenation efforts, and reputation rehab, and then, maybe, if everything has gone smoothly and they're, once again, THE park to visit within a 3-ish hour driving radius, they should start looking to expand in ways to attract audiences from farther afield. Legacy Six Flags tried to skip the decade+ process of actually fixing up the park—they tried to jump straight into behaving like a destination park—they debuted a super expensive, IP-driven, upcharge Halloween event and they added a luxury, boutique resort hotel. I think we all agree those were comical mistakes that have not paid dividends for the park. Hopefully the thinking that they can simply cheat their way back to the top has now been fully abandoned—replaced instead with the slow, methodical gameplan we have seem implemented at other distressed, legacy Cedar Fair properties pre-merger.

"Very slow and steady enough" is the name of the game here. It's no longer the mid-2000s—there are no more silver bullets. SFGAdv was one of the few parks to have shot one of those silver bullets, so I understand why it stings so badly for the park to have fallen all the way back down to a mediocre, local park, but that's the result of two straight decades of prior mismanagement. Legacy Six Flags shot a silver bullet from SFGAdv, reaped the rewards, reinvested them elsewhere, and allowed SFGAdv to rot. Now we're in an environment where silver bullets are unobtainable and Six Flags Great Adventure is going to be forced to struggle its way back up the ladder the slow, hard way just like most other major parks out there dream of doing.

Food for thought: We're now over 10 years removed from the debut of Fury 325 and Carowinds still isn't a destination park. They've been marching towards that status and they're probably beginning to flirt with some real market expansion, don't get me wrong, but they still have a long path ahead to reach the top level of non-Disney/Uni parks. Six Flags Great Adventure is hopefully just beginning to walk that path in 2027. Maybe in 2037 we'll see some real dividends start to materialize in New Jersey.