Project 2025/Holzfäller: Big Bad Wolf 2 (B&M Family Invert)

[mcmehler]

Do we think this goes vertical before the end of HOS? Surely before the end of Christmas town.

Sadly, no. This is a big project. Thank you once again to Zachary for doing the hard work and the research, etc. We know this is a massive project for BGW and much like Loch Ness they should be commended for doing the hard work of resurrecting a beloved classic, and DOING IT RIGHT. The theming on this ride is gonna be out of this world for a family coaster in 2025. I personally am sick to death of hearing about BGW being a 'regional' theme park etc. This park, our home park, is one of the best to ever be built...the MOST BEAUTIFUL Park, by a Drachen Fire mile, with this theming, whatever they call it...we are some damn lucky Park Fans.

 

[GoHokies87]

Sadly, no. This is a big project. Thank you once again to Zachary for doing the hard work and the research, etc. We know this is a massive project for BGW and much like Loch Ness they should be commended for doing the hard work of resurrecting a beloved classic, and DOING IT RIGHT. The theming on this ride is gonna be out of this world for a family coaster in 2025. I personally am sick to death of hearing about BGW being a 'regional' theme park etc. This park, our home park, is one of the best to ever be built...the MOST BEAUTIFUL Park, by a Drachen Fire mile, with this theming, whatever they call it...we are some damn lucky Park Fans.

I'm not sure I agree they are doing it right by adding a family invert that is about half the size of the original ride; but I also dont know what a drachen fire mile is. Also, not to go off topic, but bgw is below average for beauty based on pretty much any regional parks in Europe.

 

[Unagi]

I personally am sick to death of hearing about BGW being a 'regional' theme park etc.

BGW is, has always been, and will always be a "regional" park, and there is absolutely nothing wrong or derogatory about it. This is how IAAPA distinguishes the North American market when it comes to who visits parks and from where. The other category is "destination" parks where Disney and Universal fall under. Regional parks draw most visitors within a close geographic area where they can easily drive to and only need to spend a day or two at the most where destination parks draw people from all over the planet and need multiple day stays to enjoy the entire resort.

This park, our home park, is one of the best to ever be built...the MOST BEAUTIFUL Park,

There are many parks in Europe and some in Asia that shame BGW when it comes to "Most Beautiful Park." Even the view of Barcelona and the Mediterranean Sea from the top of little ole Tibidabo has every park envious.

 

[the_pantsmith]

With regards to the "most beautiful" question, I think it's clear BGW isn't the most beautiful park in the world. But for the purposes of the award, it absolutely deserves to be at the top. Like it or not, those kinds of awards are only for widely known North American and European (and sometimes Japanese) parks. Those regions have always been at the forefront of the industry.

I'll word it this way--a defensive player from ODU will (likely) never win the Heisman, even if they're arguably the best player in the country. That award is reserved for mostly skill positions at power 4 schools, even if it's labeled as the "best player in CFB" award.

What I'm saying is Busch, among major North American and European parks, has a unique atmosphere worthy of most beautiful (which I believe should be a separate category from "best themed"). Saying BGW is far and away in its own tier is misguided, but saying it doesn't deserve consideration because Phantasialand and Europapark exist is equally so. BGW is up there with any in terms of parks I just inherently enjoy existing in. And I've been to some of the best-themed European parks.

 

[mcmehler]

And the dumping on BGW continues...lol. it's all a matter of perspective and personal preference. Those people who live near some of these so-called amazing European parks probably think the same thing about parks here in N. America...the grass is always greener, and the unfamiliar always seems more intriguing. I'm just grateful to live so close to one of the best parks in the world, that's all I'm saying. I get that part of this forum is to compare different parks, etc. But it's also to celebrate what we commonly enjoy...don't think I'm the only one who places BGW at the top of the heap. But Unagi you are obviously a world traveler who is more experienced and knowledgeable than the rest of us so thanks for your opinion lol

 

[CoasterAuditor]

Any news on the Family Invert name or anything? Something other than attempts to discredit longtime posters here or shame people for being detailed and analytical in their posts related to the park? Seriously I don’t know what @mcmehler is attempting to accomplish other than propping himself up for being a cheerleader for United Parks by putting people down.

I’m over seeing this thread bumped and it’s this new user just shaming posters on here for discussing the parks in detail. What’s next? A thread called “The Scott Ross Rally?” I expect that thread to have posts like “monster manor is one of the greatest haunt mazes of all time, you can ask anyone nobody thinks it’s bad it’s great, better than everything at Knotts Scary Farm” “DarKoaster has amazing capacity, who doesn’t love waiting in that beautiful queue to get eaten by Ludwig in the smoke that definitely always works?” “Nobody believes Lyin’ Zachary and Crooked Nicole, they post fake news, nobody knew about Pantheon until Fall 2019, nobody” “they’re always complaining about the surcharge, they should increase it to 25%, we want Scott to have the biggest most beautiful yacht and for United to buy the most shares back I tell ya.”

If people are willing to get this detailed following the park and are saddened by greedy corporate decisions, it’s not “hating on the park itself” it’s because they’re passionate about a place they love. If we actually HATED the park we wouldn’t be on this forum.

 

[Zachary]

As far as I know, we still haven't seen any actual ride support columns (outside of a few maintenance area I-beam-style bits-and-bobs) arrive at the park.

Whenever those supports are, they may be the reason we have yet to see any vertical construction thus far. Hopefully ride erection can begin with haste after we get columns.

 

[the_pantsmith]

I wasn't even dumping on it lmao I tend to be way more complimentary of the park than others here because I don't go as often. Relax.

 

[mcmehler]

I wasn't even dumping on it lmao I tend to be way more complimentary of the park than others here because I don't go as often. Relax.

Dude I gave you a thumbs up wasn't talking about you but way to be the victim

Any news on the Family Invert name or anything? Something other than attempts to discredit longtime posters here or shame people for being detailed and analytical in their posts related to the park? Seriously I don’t know what @mcmehler is attempting to accomplish other than propping himself up for being a cheerleader for United Parks by putting people down.

I’m over seeing this thread bumped and it’s this new user just shaming posters on here for discussing the parks in detail. What’s next? A thread called “The Scott Ross Rally?” I expect that thread to have posts like “monster manor is one of the greatest haunt mazes of all time, you can ask anyone nobody thinks it’s bad it’s great, better than everything at Knotts Scary Farm” “DarKoaster has amazing capacity, who doesn’t love waiting in that beautiful queue to get eaten by Ludwig in the smoke that definitely always works?” “Nobody believes Lyin’ Zachary and Crooked Nicole, they post fake news, nobody knew about Pantheon until Fall 2019, nobody” “they’re always complaining about the surcharge, they should increase it to 25%, we want Scott to have the biggest most beautiful yacht and for United to buy the most shares back I tell ya.”

If people are willing to get this detailed following the park and are saddened by greedy corporate decisions, it’s not “hating on the park itself” it’s because they’re passionate about a place they love. If we actually HATED the park we wouldn’t be on this forum.

I'm attempting to defend BGW through good times and bad against people who think the rest of us enjoy hearing people who are not invested in the park whatsoever talking shit about it constantly. The park is bigger than it's current ownership so maybe you should take your essay on corporate excess elsewhere. The rest of us are here for pics/updates/thoughtful convo about the direction of the park we love. Oh, and HOLZFÄLLER! Just because you talk shit about BGW does not make you cool. It actually makes you a lemming who has nothing better to offer.

 

[Nicole]

Posts in this thread are getting dangerously close to personal attacks. At the very least they are unnecessarily aggressive and rude. As we have said before, we encourage debate and value a variety of perspectives and opinions. Disagreeing, however, is never a reason to insult another member. Moreover, the name-calling is pulling this thread more and more off-topic. There are places on this Forum to debate the state of the park; I suggest further discussion on that topic move there:

https://parkfans.net/threads/the-state-of-the-park-busch-gardens-williamsburg.7325/

https://parkfans.net/threads/is-bgw-losing-its-charm.7778/

There also seem to be some invalid assumptions in @mcmehler's comments. It is perfectly reasonable to both love and critique the park. There are many people who seek to highlight the problems, because they do not want BGW to slip into mediocrity or even fail. Please do not conflate legitimate critique with malicious or shallow intent.

 

[Zachary]

Pointing out to @mcmehler that other threads exist is a dangerous game @Nicole. His pattern of cringe evening ad hominems followed by backtracking/retractions/deleting the next morning have always just been isolated to this thread. Lord knows what may happen if he starts reading others. /s

In all seriousness though, seeing @mcmehler proclaim himself some sort of subject matter expert on what people on ParkFans do or do not want to read is hilarious when you juxtapose that claim with the reactions his posts on said topic receive from the very community he believes he understands.

Additionally, @CoasterAuditor has been here since 2017 and has contributed well over 2000, often very substantive and valuable posts. Suggesting that his opinions don't have a place here is offensive—and something I am absolutely positive the vast majority of members here firmly disagree with you on @mcmehler.

And lastly, you, @mcmehler, are the one who is repeatedly derailing this thread. You say you want to talk about Holzfäller, but the majority of what you show up and post here consists of grievance-fueled pot shots at other members and staff. Maybe if you cut it out, this thread could actually sit dormant until there's something substantive to report/discuss. That, right there, is the dream.

In the meantime, I will quote my last attempt to retrack this thread and maybe we can try to build from there again.

As far as I know, we still haven't seen any actual ride support columns (outside of a few maintenance area I-beam-style bits-and-bobs) arrive at the park.

Whenever those supports are, they may be the reason we have yet to see any vertical construction thus far. Hopefully ride erection can begin with haste after we get columns.

PS: I'm probably moving any further meta conversation to Pointless Discussions. I'm finding the constant thread arson here incredibly tiresome—and I think my tolerance for it is much higher than many of the more casual passers-by.

 

[Jonesta6]

So... No idea on support colors still, but when do we think they'll want to start vertical construction?

 

[Le Moose]

So... No idea on support colors still, but when do we think they'll want to start vertical construction?

When we find out the support color

 

[TheCoasterNerd]

 

[Zachary]

Anyone else feel like BGW is intentionally putting space between the poll and a name announcement at this point?

It is objectively bad for the coaster's marketability for it to remain nameless for this long. Rapterra has been over in Doswell building up hype and name recognition for ages now while BGW continues to fail to get the word out about their upcoming coaster. Hard to even start that process until there's a name. What on earth is taking them so long?

If I were to toss on a tinfoil hat, I'd almost think the longer they wait, the more likely it is that they're going to name it something not in the poll which... yikes. On one hand, yes, all the names were bad and yes, there are way better options out there, but on the other hand, people have now begun to adjust to their favorite(s) of the proposed names, they feel invested into the name they picked, etc. Tossing out the poll would be a bold and inevitably controversial choice. In my opinion, BGW would need to have a strong, very-obviously-superior name in the barrel to overcome the friction intrinsic to throwing out the poll (read: not Revenge of the Big Bad Wolf or similar) and, even still, it would be quite an incredible rebuke of the monumentally poor marketing strategy leading up to the announcement.

Hopefully that conspiracy theory proves incorrect and we just end up with GeisterWölf or whatever. It is just that it has been like 3 weeks now since the poll closed, any modicum of momentum that may have existed is now gone, we are at peak Halloween season, and we're about to enter the Christmas Town marketing cycle. It seems obvious to me that the name announcement is seriously overdue. Ultimately though, in my opinion, the sooner BGW puts this unnecessarily messy chapter behind this coaster, the better off it will be. Just rip off the band-aid already, BGW. Let us know which bad name we're getting so we can move on.

 

[Le Moose]

Anyone else feel like BGW is intentionally putting space between the poll and a name announcement at this point?

It is objectively bad for the coaster's marketability for it to remain nameless for this long. Rapterra has been over in Doswell building up hype and name recognition for ages now while BGW continues to fail to get the word out about their upcoming coaster. Hard to even start that process until there's a name. What on earth is taking them so long?

If I were to toss on a tinfoil hat, I'd almost think the longer they wait, the more likely it is that they're going to name it something not in the poll which... yikes. On one hand, yes, all the names were bad and yes, there are way better options out there, but on the other hand, people have now begun to adjust to their favorite(s) of the proposed names, they feel invested into the name they picked, etc. Tossing out the poll would be a bold and inevitably controversial choice. In my opinion, BGW would need to have a strong, very-obviously-superior name in the barrel to overcome the friction intrinsic to throwing out the poll (read: not Revenge of the Big Bad Wolf or similar) and, even still, it would be quite an incredible rebuke of the monumentally poor marketing strategy leading up to the announcement.

Hopefully that conspiracy theory proves incorrect and we just end up with GeisterWölf or whatever. It is just that it has been like 3 weeks now since the poll closed, any modicum of momentum that may have existed is now gone, we are at peak Halloween season, and we're about to enter the Christmas Town marketing cycle. It seems obvious to me that the name announcement is seriously overdue. Ultimately though, in my opinion, the sooner BGW puts this unnecessarily messy chapter behind this coaster, the better off it will be. Just rip off the band-aid already, BGW. Let us know which bad name we're getting so we can move on.

I haven’t seen or heard anything that points to this, this is just my 2 cents.

I wonder if they’re waiting for member appreciation weekend to announce it at a town hall or something similar?

 

[rideopsarecool]

Anyone else feel like BGW is intentionally putting space between the poll and a name announcement at this point?

It is objectively bad for the coaster's marketability for it to remain nameless for this long. Rapterra has been over in Doswell building up hype and name recognition for ages now while BGW continues to fail to get the word out about their upcoming coaster. Hard to even start that process until there's a name. What on earth is taking them so long?

If I were to toss on a tinfoil hat, I'd almost think the longer they wait, the more likely it is that they're going to name it something not in the poll which... yikes. On one hand, yes, all the names were bad and yes, there are way better options out there, but on the other hand, people have now begun to adjust to their favorite(s) of the proposed names, they feel invested into the name they picked, etc. Tossing out the poll would be a bold and inevitably controversial choice. In my opinion, BGW would need to have a strong, very-obviously-superior name in the barrel to overcome the friction intrinsic to throwing out the poll (read: not Revenge of the Big Bad Wolf or similar) and, even still, it would be quite an incredible rebuke of the monumentally poor marketing strategy leading up to the announcement.

Hopefully that conspiracy theory proves incorrect and we just end up with GeisterWölf or whatever. It is just that it has been like 3 weeks now since the poll closed, any modicum of momentum that may have existed is now gone, we are at peak Halloween season, and we're about to enter the Christmas Town marketing cycle. It seems obvious to me that the name announcement is seriously overdue. Ultimately though, in my opinion, the sooner BGW puts this unnecessarily messy chapter behind this coaster, the better off it will be. Just rip off the band-aid already, BGW. Let us know which bad name we're getting so we can move on.

I agree with everything you said, Zachery. I hope we see something before the start of Christmas Town. The track has already started arriving at the park. If everything starts falling into the right place, we could see some awesome marketing, merchandise, and an overall great attraction where a not-so-great attraction once stood. I love this park so much that I'd hate to see anything bad happen to it, and even though they've taken a few minor missteps, that doesn't mean that we won't end up with a good result.

I haven’t seen or heard anything that points to this, this is just my 2 cents.

I wonder if they’re waiting for member appreciation weekend to announce it at a town hall or something similar?

I wouldn't be surprised if they did wait until Member Appreciation Weekend. They announced Nessie's refurb at the town hall in Nov. 2023 so it's not out of the question.

 

[mcmehler]

Anyone else feel like BGW is intentionally putting space between the poll and a name announcement at this point?

It is objectively bad for the coaster's marketability for it to remain nameless for this long. Rapterra has been over in Doswell building up hype and name recognition for ages now while BGW continues to fail to get the word out about their upcoming coaster. Hard to even start that process until there's a name. What on earth is taking them so long?

If I were to toss on a tinfoil hat, I'd almost think the longer they wait, the more likely it is that they're going to name it something not in the poll which... yikes. On one hand, yes, all the names were bad and yes, there are way better options out there, but on the other hand, people have now begun to adjust to their favorite(s) of the proposed names, they feel invested into the name they picked, etc. Tossing out the poll would be a bold and inevitably controversial choice. In my opinion, BGW would need to have a strong, very-obviously-superior name in the barrel to overcome the friction intrinsic to throwing out the poll (read: not Revenge of the Big Bad Wolf or similar) and, even still, it would be quite an incredible rebuke of the monumentally poor marketing strategy leading up to the announcement.

Hopefully that conspiracy theory proves incorrect and we just end up with GeisterWölf or whatever. It is just that it has been like 3 weeks now since the poll closed, any modicum of momentum that may have existed is now gone, we are at peak Halloween season, and we're about to enter the Christmas Town marketing cycle. It seems obvious to me that the name announcement is seriously overdue. Ultimately though, in my opinion, the sooner BGW puts this unnecessarily messy chapter behind this coaster, the better off it will be. Just rip off the band-aid already, BGW. Let us know which bad name we're getting so we can move on.

Yes, I think they are intentionally putting space between the poll and the announcement. It's a strategy known as marketing which draws out interest over a period of time. Considering the ride is not going to miraculously appear fully assembled any time soon, I'd say they have plenty of time to continue on the marketing campaign and build momentum.

Also I would personally shy away from comparing Rapterra to this project. Two very different parks with two very different strategies for 2025. BGW I think is trying to cultivate a new generation of coaster riders with the last couple offerings that are more geared toward families, to regenerate their base and reputation as far as why people visit the park. So I'm looking at Project 2025 as a gateway for the next generation of thrillseekers for BGW. Having said that, KD is trying to modernize their coaster collection in the new Six Flags/Cedar fair environment to compete with their own parks as a destination for thrill coaster seekers. Needless to say, I think bringing back the Wolf was an absolute necessity for BGW (it was going to happen eventually) and the next coaster they bring to the table after Wolf is going to be epic and intense. That is the hope.

 

[Le Moose]

It's a strategy known as marketing which draws out interest over a period of time.

I agree that dragging stuff out overtime helps build excitement for the future, but right now BGW has been silent on the 2025 coaster since the vote ended. Theres no mention of it on the website homepage and the rides/coasters page. Theres no way to build excitement around something that isn’t mentioned on the website, in the park, and only directly mentioned in one post on social media platforms. You could have a sign on the construction fence saying “The beast returns in 2025…” or something along those lines to at least get people in the park talking about it.

 

[GoHokies87]

Here's a question for you folks who don't ride wacky worms out there. When you go to a new park, do you normally ride family inverts? I feel like with the added size and theming, I would be more likely to ride NeoWulf occasionally on repeat visits over something like Phoenix Rising. Most current options in the US range from something I might try only the first time I visit, to skipping entirely.

Which I suppose for the wacky worm folks I could ask how likely you would be to re-ride any odd family invert.