Project 2025/Holzfäller: Big Bad Wolf 2 (B&M Family Invert)

Register or Login to Hide This Ad for Free!
Status
Not open for further replies.
I concur with @Nicole, it's not the fact it's a family coaster, it's the space it will occupy. Completely out of the way off the main path. They better sign for this ride very well or it will probably always have a shorter line. Well unless they got a model with one train because.............yeah.

EDIT: You guys, Phoenix Rising killing Wilde Maus was our foreshadowing. 😣
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: tursiops, Nicole, Unagi and 1 other person
Nicole said:
I really think this is the message the park needs to hear.

Not whining about wanting biggest, longest, tallest, est-est.

Not nostalgia for Drachen Fire, which had a lot of hate at the time (when you could find it, because it was so far off the beaten path).

Not thoosie wish lists of whatever manufacture/element/model is trendy at the moment.

They need to hear that a family coaster harkening back to the beloved BBW is a great idea almost anywhere else in the park, just not in a plot of land where is will get missed/lost/limited foot traffic.

They need to hear that to get people to walk that far, they need to be able to see the attraction and to think it is worth the trek.

In other words, the message needs to be that the entire issue is land use and location, not an intrinsic objection to the ride in a vacuum.
Click to expand...

Just spoke to more industry friends and they all have echoed the same thing @Zachary and @Nicole have stated here.

But to also add to this, they are even more baffled that SEAS and the park keep changing plans for this location. From Project Madrid to Spire to RMC and to whatever the hell this is now. It ain't cheap to hire a coaster company to design a potential attraction for a site as a lot of planning and personnel are needed to work on them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alf33, Ziva, Coasternerd and 9 others
Unagi said:
Just spoke to more industry friends and they all have echoed the same thing @Zachary and @Nicole have stated here.

But to also add to this, they are even more baffled that SEAS and the park keep changing plans for this location. From Project Madrid to Spire to RMC and to whatever the hell this is now. It ain't cheap to hire a coaster company to design a potential attraction for a site as a lot of planning and personnel are needed to work on them.
Click to expand...
I guess I'm not that surprised. A lot of the planning (Madrid and Drachen Spire) was done by Intamin who ultimately did win a contract for two coasters at BGW — something pretty valuable to them after being blacklisted by BGW in the past. Then the only other option we actually know of was an RMC and this B&M (most likely a package deal as well based on what we're seeing at other Seaworld parks). That's really not that wild for this site, even though it's been talked about for so long.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zachary
Damn. Well, my family's 2025 season passes are going to the park between KD and BGW that has the better 2025 addition, and I don't think a family invert is going to beat a launched wing coaster. Oh well!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Coasternerd and Zachary
CarterGee said:
I guess I'm not that surprised. A lot of the planning (Madrid and Drachen Spire) was done by Intamin who ultimately did win a contract for two coasters at BGW — something pretty valuable to them after being blacklisted by BGW in the past. Then the only other option we actually know of was an RMC and this B&M (most likely a package deal as well based on what we're seeing at other Seaworld parks). That's really not that wild for this site, even though it's been talked about for so long.
Click to expand...

I agree that Intamin probably isn't too mad about how things turned out.

That said, even just the costs of all of all of the third party contractors for things like height surveys, sound surveys, soil testing, layout design, plan drafting, etc—it adds up. Tossing in the SEAS employee man hours that the company has into all of these years of dead ends and it's probably pretty significant.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: CarterGee, Coasternerd, Unagi and 4 others
Yeah I have to imagine the accountants at BGW/SEAS are wondering WTF somebody specific is doing based on all of this.

FOLLOW UP: Took a quick perusal of their most recent 10-Q they released in November. Curiously, I'll point out in 2025, SEAS has $239.5 million in LT debt due, compared to 23, 24, 26, 27 where it ostensibly only has $12 million in debt due. It looks like in 2025 they have some fairly significant interest payments due. It looks like back in August they issued a conditional redemption notice for $227.5m of debt principal but then rescinded that notice due to "unfavorable market conditions." Given the recency of all of that activity I suspect that may play into what's going on here. Looking at their balance sheet they have been actively working to increase their cash throughout 2023 to deal with this situation. Safe to assume that this MASSIVE cash payment looming is coming into their decision making in this timeframe.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Alf33 and Zachary
Coaster Takes said:
Would it be egregious to assume that the park is acknowledging the possibility of low ridership with how small the planned queue is? It's barely half the size of Drachen Spire's neutered queue, and that doesn't exactly provide a strong show of confidence.

View attachment 30834

View attachment 30833
Click to expand...

I feel as if they expected this to be a decent market family coaster, they would make the queue larger, this almost looks like it could be a kids/fam coaster, something only a step up from grovers. Maybe this means that the coaster sorted for 2025 could be part of a multistage project that has a marquee attraction somewhere later down the road? maybe a kid oriented coaster and the starts of a new land?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Coaster Takes said:
Would it be egregious to assume that the park is acknowledging the possibility of low ridership with how small the planned queue is? It's barely half the size of Drachen Spire's neutered queue, and that doesn't exactly provide a strong show of confidence.

View attachment 30834

View attachment 30833
Click to expand...
It’s either that or this thing will have some SERIOUS capacity… doubt it though. I’m VERY interested to see the article for this project.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Python_Survivor
Dear SEAS,

Since BGW could read this and you overrule their desires, I hope it’s forwarded to you.

Do NOT Doe this project here please. Stop the pandering with this ride. DF’s site should be reserved for a new hamlet, and a thrill coaster. Between your last good expansion pad and the history of this site it’s the least you could do for the fans.

Instead, please consider this:
In DF’s location pony up and give us our HyperHybrid RMC. Give the people what they want. Please. And put NONE of it into DF’s infield. Save that for some flats and a proper seated dining restaurant. Hey if you do this right you might even have space for a Giga back there!!

Then for a B&M family suspended coaster feel free to take Verbolten in about 5 years. Give me the spiritual successor to BBW back where it was. Heck this is a great idea to do a tribute to both.

Signed
People who care.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Coasternerd, CoasterAuditor, realrx and 1 other person
If this is a family coaster, don't see how this would eliminate the possibility of later putting in another coaster back there later, although with how out and back it is, the other might have to be the same length.

I'm also struck by how isolated it could seem. Some time ago I suggested it would make sense to put a launched mine train ride back there as a smaller slower ride could come closer to trees and foliage.
 
warfelg said:
Dear SEAS,

Since BGW could read this and you overrule their desires, I hope it’s forwarded to you.

Do NOT Doe this project here please. Stop the pandering with this ride. DF’s site should be reserved for a new hamlet, and a thrill coaster. Between your last good expansion pad and the history of this site it’s the least you could do for the fans.

Instead, please consider this:
In DF’s location pony up and give us our HyperHybrid RMC. Give the people what they want. Please. And put NONE of it into DF’s infield. Save that for some flats and a proper seated dining restaurant. Hey if you do this right you might even have space for a Giga back there!!

Then for a B&M family suspended coaster feel free to take Verbolten in about 5 years. Give me the spiritual successor to BBW back where it was. Heck this is a great idea to do a tribute to both.

Signed
People who care.
Click to expand...
Good man
 
  • Like
Reactions: Coasternerd
Status
Not open for further replies.
Consider Donating to Hide This Ad