Project 2025/Holzfäller: Big Bad Wolf 2 (B&M Family Invert)

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Zachary said:
BGW's coasters in rank order according to Captain Coaster:
  1. Pantheon
  2. Griffon
  3. Alpengeist
  4. Apollo's Chariot
  5. Verbolten
  6. InvadR
  7. Tempesto
  8. Loch Ness Monster
  9. Grover's Alpine Express

Busch Gardens Williamsburg • United States • Captain Coaster

captaincoaster.com captaincoaster.com

Not defending @madmax's statements, just trying to introduce some data to the discussion.



Captain Coaster is based af, as the kids would say. Their ranking is generated monthly using a pairwise comparison of every user's submitted coaster rankings. The most recent ranking was based on 165,400 coaster scores by 4,877 users which generated 27,300,000 unique coaster match-ups.

Vote Coasters uses a very similar methodology (and I believe should be treated as fairly authoritative as well), but it is only run once a year and has, historically, had a smaller n compared to Captain Coaster's ongoing, monthly calculations and larger n.
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I guess I'm more wary of it because the n count is still fairly low compared to how many people actually visit and ride. The data they get is highly biased IMO because the average guest is not likely the person to also provide their ranking to such a site.

But it's still something, so thanks for that though
 
Jonesta6 said:
I guess I'm more wary of it because the n count is still fairly low compared to how many people actually visit and ride. The data they get is highly biased IMO because the average guest is not likely the person to also provide their ranking to such a site.

But it's still something, so thanks for that though
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From many trips and discussions with my non-enthusiast friends over the years, Apollo has been universally the park's #1 (out of 15+ people, I'm the only one who likes Alpy more), up until Pantheon, and it's become split across the thrill seekers, and still doesn't unseat Apollo as the re-rideable casual thrill machine.
 
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Dave / Pink said:
From many trips and discussions with my non-enthusiast friends over the years, Apollo has been universally the park's #1 (out of 15+ people, I'm the only one who likes Alpy more), up until Pantheon, and it's become split across the thrill seekers, and still doesn't unseat Apollo as the re-rideable casual thrill machine.
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Right - it's an incredibly pleasant ride and hits all the right points for anyone I know that likes riding coasters.

Perhaps when asked to rank the rides in the park, non- thoosies won't know or care about anything other than if they enjoyed it more or less than other rides in the same park. Not if it's the best version of x ride model, not because it's y manufacturer... Just if it's fun or not.

But that's not necessarily how many of the folks who provided their rankings weighed the option - nothing wrong with that methodology by itself, but definitely not a great representation of how most guests would necessarily rank anything (unless there's a better source with that data available).
 
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Jonesta6 said:
Right - it's an incredibly pleasant ride and hits all the right points for anyone I know that likes riding coasters.

Perhaps when asked to rank the rides in the park, non- thoosies won't know or care about anything other than if they enjoyed it more or less than other rides in the same park. Not if it's the best version of x ride model, not because it's y manufacturer... Just if it's fun or not.

But that's not necessarily how many of the folks who provided their rankings weighed the option - nothing wrong with that methodology by itself, but definitely not a great representation of how most guests would necessarily rank anything (unless there's a better source with that data available).
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After getting more rides on both pantheon and Apollo, I rank Apollo higher, especially when it is flying.
 
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warfelg said:
The great thing about roller coasters is there’s different styles and manufacturers for people who like something different.
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The problem is there are moments on Apollo that don’t do what they’re designed to do now
 
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madmax said:
The problem is there are moments on Apollo that don’t do what they’re designed to do now
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Since I helped steer us super off-topic... First, can you please elaborate?

Second, what perceived deficiencies of AC and/or the overall lineup could be corrected by this 2024 project?
 
If it's an RMC beast or an Intamin similar to Maverick or MF (let's forget about the intensity of trying to combine both into the same ride found just up the road in Doswell), then sure... But to what degree of intensity is SEAS/BGW looking for?
 
mikes said:
Okay.......and Mako is still higher on my list than both of these so maybe it's the style of coaster I prefer?? You do know everyone can have their own opinion right?
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I agree to an extent, you can like floater and smooth bs ejector and high gs, but start ranking a flat like tempesto over anything else and your opinion goes in the bin
 
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The intensity of Pantheon is concentrated too much into specific moments. One aspect they could improve upon KD is ride duration,, which Spire wouldn't have done. Besides, they already have the world's best swing launch coaster.

Re: Apollo, it's been running better than ever for me this year. Pantheon isn't as dependent on seat position and the better ride to me, but the same reasons you might rate Apollo higher than other B&M hypers would also apply to that comparison.
 
bill s said:
The intensity of Pantheon is concentrated too much into specific moments.
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Yeah have to agree with this. The swing launch drop and stall are all super intense imo but everything else isn’t really, at least by Intamin standards. To be fair though many top rides are like that.
 
madmax said:
The problem is there are moments on Apollo that don’t do what they’re designed to do now
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"Mr. Busch Gardens - tear down that Apollo!" 😂

I see nothing gained about a 2024 addition in Festhaus Park by complaining about a B&M hyper from 1999. We are very lucky to have Apollo, which just ranked at #8 for Golden Ticket after all this time (great!) and is doing its job just fine after all these years. Some B&M hypers barely get any of the love that Apollo does at other parks, I consider myself thankful considering what SEAS has been doing to BGW as of late...

Opinions are exactly that, but your voyage to the sun on Apollo's wings matters little in the context of the vastly different concept of this new attraction yet to be announced.
 
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Don't get me wrong I like Apollo a lot for it's fun factor it's just not a top coaster anymore
 
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