And yet we still have Top Thrill 2. If that ride had been at any other park... it would be gone.
Project 2025/305: Pantherian (Intimidator 305 Retheme)
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I don't know how the lift is as problematic as it is, but it has been incredibly problematic for many, many years now. I can't point to any other major coaster in the legacy Cedar Fair chain—other than the Intamin accelerators—that have faced (anywhere near?) as many/as frequent multi-month closures during the core operating season due to mechanical issues as Pantherian has.
@Mushroom probably makes a good point that a complete redesign and replacement of the lift system is likely far easier and cheaper than, say, LSM-ifying Dragster or Ka. If the lift problems continue, maybe we will see something like that attempted?
Honestly I feel like the new name and theme opens up a lot more potential for a chain lift hill retrofit.. With the I305 theme the fast cable lift made sense given the theme and how you were meant to be a daredevil like Dale. I feel like with the panther theme it isn't as necessary, and I can totally see them one day changing it to a cheaper chain lift. I wonder if it would affect the momentum throughout the rest of the ride going over the lift at a slower speed.
Also this is something I haven't seen talked about much, but I figure I'll ask. I remember El Toro Ryan saying in a Millennium Force video that it's cable had snapped in 2018, and that they've been using the backup ever since which is signifantly slower than the old one was. MF was 18 years old when it's cable snapped, Pantherian is currently 15. I wonder if in the future something were to happen to Pantherians cable, they could really start to look at a chainlift retrofit then.
Also this is something I haven't seen talked about much, but I figure I'll ask. I remember El Toro Ryan saying in a Millennium Force video that it's cable had snapped in 2018, and that they've been using the backup ever since which is signifantly slower than the old one was. MF was 18 years old when it's cable snapped, Pantherian is currently 15. I wonder if in the future something were to happen to Pantherians cable, they could really start to look at a chainlift retrofit then.
I feel like it's silly that this needs to be asked but given legacy CF issues:
Are we sure every repair has been done with recommended parts and these issues aren't self inflicted and someone would want to work with them in retrofitting Pantherian to work with a different lift system?
Ding! Ding! Ding!
If certain other Intamins operating under identical policies and management are any indication...
And then if you want to throw in the health of the relationship between the manufacturer and Legacy Cedar Fair/Kings Dominion into the equation...
Most firms will always be willing to work on just about any project for the right price... But, if that price would have to include "righting" other potential "wrongs" as another such example may have, that "right price" could be a lot more than expected if working with a certain manufacturer.
Though Legacy Cedar Fair was just recently, severely burned as a result of using Zamperla to overhaul Dragster, I do very much hope that they don't turn that trauma into a staunch unwillingness to contract other, more experienced firms to update/overhaul their existing steel coasters. I'd certainly prefer Intamin to be given the contracts to work on their own attractions, but that bridge may already be a smoldering pile of ash for at least some of the existing Intamins in the legacy Cedar Fair chain...
This is a thought—if they want to get the “high speed lift” but lower the maintenance costs—what about an LSM lift? They already have mags for the braking system—why not a lift? And then they can keep the same kind of anti rollback system the cable lift used.
I’ve brought that up before here and other places for widespread use and cost seems to be a major hurdle.
However the long term cost would be significantly lower as LSMs are significantly more reliable, plus you remove all the moving parts of the cable, catch car, and motor
The park will basically never confirm any maintenance related closure. Even rides with full season down times like drop, deli, and eiffel were never confirmed to be maintenance related. It's always gonna be word of mouth.
MF has a cable lift because they determined that a chain would break from its own weight. Obviously, B&M figured it out, but Steel Dragon used two chains with separate motors. LSM lifts are extremely problematic due to the issue of rollback, and would require almost as power to lift slowly as fast.
We should be able to guess if the additional theming justifies the length of closure, along with randomness of reopen date.
We should be able to guess if the additional theming justifies the length of closure, along with randomness of reopen date.
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They were using it to sell tickets valid thru 6/30. At the time they tweeted this seems like they were assuming it’d be open
Intimidator 305's lift is unique to itself. It only shares a small amount of parts (I believe the motor) with Skyrush at Hersheypark. Everything else about it is custom for it. Unfortunately there are no similarities between it and Millennium Force other than the fact that it generally does the same thing.
Parts are hard to come by when they're custom and from another country usually. Not everything is serviced by Intamin too. Some of these parts are needed to he shipped overseas to get rebuilt or fixed, then shipped back. It's kinda a mess when issues are discovered and, to get it fixed properly, takes more time than anyone wants to wait.
I like the idea of a new lift system but that's very pricey
Parts are hard to come by when they're custom and from another country usually. Not everything is serviced by Intamin too. Some of these parts are needed to he shipped overseas to get rebuilt or fixed, then shipped back. It's kinda a mess when issues are discovered and, to get it fixed properly, takes more time than anyone wants to wait.
I like the idea of a new lift system but that's very pricey
Just to clarify - El Toro Ryan's video mentioned the lift motor went out and they swapped to use the back up (less powerful/slower motor). Cables (even chain) are usually replaced as part of preventive maintenance. I couldnt imagine 305 is still using its orginal cable. I'm not sure of the intervals, but if I were to guess, roughly every 5-8 years or so. I'd also guess that a cable to is much easier/faster to swap than chain links, but that's a nonengineer assumption.
I'm not an engineer by any means. But I don't see how a chain could work for this particular lift. Cable is much lighter, and Pantherian already has a unique lift setup with only 2 supports holding it up. There is already a noticeable dip in the structure from the station to the 1st support (I'm sure this was accounted for in the engineering).
I'm sure anything is possible with the right amount of money, but I would think a new motor, all new gears and sprockets, potentially beef up the lift support, control system rebuild (to account for the new lift setup), and complete rebuild of the cable trough wouldn't be beneficial by any means. Not to mention how steep the lift is.
Yes, a cable is a wear component. The manufacture will dictate the replacement interval. Two common ways to know when a cable needs to be replaced is to count total number of broken strands in a stretch of cable (for example, 5 broken strands in a meter). In some applications, the diameter of the cable is measured with calipers, or the overall cable is measured for stretch (the last one is hard with long cables, but you know you have an issue when your slack adjuster runs out of throw.
Most likely, the cable is replaced based on the number of cycles, with regular inspections on different sections for premature wear.
The one off nature of many of the lift components makes downtime inevitable. If I was in charge of maintenance and had an unlimited budget, I would have a spare of every custom moving part made and kept on a shelf. One of the things taught in management classes these days is to not have too much money tied up in spare parts inventory...
Most likely, the cable is replaced based on the number of cycles, with regular inspections on different sections for premature wear.
The one off nature of many of the lift components makes downtime inevitable. If I was in charge of maintenance and had an unlimited budget, I would have a spare of every custom moving part made and kept on a shelf. One of the things taught in management classes these days is to not have too much money tied up in spare parts inventory...
This is one of the more annoying things of the slim model.
What's interesting is the companies that supply that stuff though have to legally keep a certain amount of that in stock. I know this from working with golf OEMs through COVID because there would be times things shipped in bunches, and it's because they got the shipment of everything that was at the low end of allowance.
I think you will see any legal requirements for parts supply only pertains to equipment covered under warranty provisions. And that very well may not apply to this industry. I can't imagine any such restrictions are in play here.
It looks cool
Also, no, the Pantherian train is not supposed to be a panther just as Rapterra isn't "riding on a bird" or whatever. In the story of Jungle X, the actual, physical structures, tracks, ride vehicles, etc of the attractions are actual architectural features of their respective temples. You can read a deeper dive in the "Temples of Jungle X" portion of my (now currently outdated) lore guide, here:
kdfans.com
Also, no, the Pantherian train is not supposed to be a panther just as Rapterra isn't "riding on a bird" or whatever. In the story of Jungle X, the actual, physical structures, tracks, ride vehicles, etc of the attractions are actual architectural features of their respective temples. You can read a deeper dive in the "Temples of Jungle X" portion of my (now currently outdated) lore guide, here:
The Lore Behind Kings Dominion's Jungle X-Pedition - KDFans
Learn about the characters, organizations, and lore behind Kings Dominion's new-for-2022, immersive, adventure-themed land, Jungle X-Pedition
kdfans.com
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