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Nicole said:
Also, we have no idea whether BGT's RMC will have OTSRs. What we do know is that for whatever reason, unnecessary Comfort Collars have been added to both Tempesto, Tigris, and Electric Eel.
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We do have an idea, there is literally nowhere to put an OTSR on an RMC train (unless it’s a raptor type train in which that hasn’t been developed yet to fit the width of a hybrid). The shoulder peeks over the top of the train. You would have to make some severe modifications to the train vs just simply having a clip on collar on Tempesto.
 
I missed where anyone claimed to be a victim. Several of us have implied that Comfort Collars are useless and absurd, which is different.

As @Zachary already pointed out, there could be legal or insurance reasons for the pseudo OTSRs. My point from the beginning is that there is a pattern that we cannot ignore. Asserting that something isn't going to happen over and over doesn't make the trend any less real.
 
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madmax said:
It’s not happening.
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I think you are misinterpreting people as saying "we think it is going to happen".

People are saying it COULD happen. I am with you, I don't think it will, but just because we don't think it will happen doesn't mean it can't. It is still technically a possibility. It is a valid concern that it could happen, and it's worth investigating the likelihood of it. That being said, asserting your personal stance without any reasoning behind it doesn't contribute to the discussion.
 
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Nicole said:
I missed where anyone claimed to be a victim. Several of us have implied that Comfort Collars are useless and absurd, which is different.

As @Zachary already pointed out, there could be legal or insurance reasons for the pseudo OTSRs. My point from the beginning is that there is a pattern that we cannot ignore. Asserting that something isn't going to happen over and over doesn't make the trend any less real.
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Literally we’ve only seen the collars on 2 maybe 3 SRIIs and possibly another ride, all by the same exact manufacturer, out of many.

At least half looping rides that have came out in the past 5 years have had lap bars. It’s not an insurance thing because otherwise this would be an industry wide thing.
 
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Just for my own education, I looked up a couple of rides to see what they use.

For Intamin, the closest to what we (may) be getting is Soaring with Dragon. Here's their train -

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I was curious as to whether state law (some states are stricter than others, I've learned) might be an indicator, I looked at the newest in the state that offers some of what we (may) see. Here's RMC's Twisted Timbers-

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So, IMHO, if we get "collared" then I'll place the blame directly at SEAS' legal beagles.
 
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Thing is, the Premier trains do not have seat belts. RMC trains do, and I think these new Intamin trains have a belt that connects to the bar (like Skyrush). Now the collar isn’t actually a safety device but the seatbelt itself can act as assurance for the guest. That is the difference imo.
 
Personally I think the reason for the comfort collars lies more with how slow the roll is on the SRII and the belief within SEAS that guests won't feel comfortable with it. I don't know anyone who feels that way but I am sure there are people who feel safer because the comfort collar is there. I don't think this line of thinking necessarily applies to every inverted coaster they will build going forward and is more a reaction to a specific element. I think it's very likely that the restraints are more like soaring with dragon.
 
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BGWnut said:
Personally I think the reason for the comfort collars lies more with how slow the roll is on the SRII and the belief within SEAS that guests won't feel comfortable with it. I don't know anyone who feels that way but I am sure there are people who feel safer because the comfort collar is there. I don't think this line of thinking necessarily applies to every inverted coaster they will build going forward and is more a reaction to a specific element. I think it's very likely that the restraints are more like soaring with dragon.
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I think it’s almost certain it will be the new Intamin trains. But as I said before I’d wager that they would just opt for the I305/Mav trains (w/ vests) before adding collars onto these new trains.
 
madmax said:
Thing is, the Premier trains do not have seat belts. RMC trains do, and I think these new Intamin trains have a belt that connects to the bar (like Skyrush).
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At least a few of them actually use an across-the-lap seat belt unfortunately (Soaring with Dragon and Steel Dolphin). Taron does it right and doesn't feature any seatbelts as far as I know.

As far as I can tell, Intamin has yet to use a between-the-leg setbeat on a launch coaster with their new trains.
 
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Looking at the last four coasters opened by Intamin in 2017/2018, all have the same restraints as I pictured above with Soaring with Dragon and not the belt type on the 6 year old SkyRush.

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@Zachary Here's Taron-

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Zachary said:
This is what has caused me to question whether or not there's an external driver at play here. Are insurance companies possibly charging parks more for rides that invert with OSTRs now? Just an interesting possibility to ponder.
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This^. That is my #1 assumption as to why they may be added. Either insurance requires, or SEAS can get a discount... As to whether that's true, one would need more insight into the policies than I have.

b.mac said:
Tempesto received comfort collars because according to SEAS the illusion of safety is important even if it serves little to no purpose otherwise.
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In my world, we call that "security theater." Comfort collars are mere theater, and probably cause more angst with guests than comfort....and that's the major irony, especially because they're called "comfort" and not "safety" collars--if they don't increase safety, and more often than not decrease comfort, what's the point? Unless such a show can deliver a financial benefit to the park in the form of insurance costs--and the policy writer perhaps doesn't know the difference between comfort and safety either.

So my #2 assumption is that they really are intended as "comfort," no matter how misguided that is. Perhaps the park is traumatized by DF's failure and bad rep for being "too rough" and wants the public to feel like they're not free to bang around as much. If that does inform future design decisions, I'll call this phenomenon the "Drachen Effect."
 
This may (or may not) shed some light on the conjecture of SEAS mandating additional "safety" restraints -

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Interesting that BGT had less (41) significant injuries park-wide than reported for Alpengeist last year.
 
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Collars is certainly a possibility, but lets just hope it doesn't have them.

Don't feel like it's a thing to get in an argument over, no one wants them anyways lol
 
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I lose feeling in my legs everytime I ride Alpengeist. That's a feature of the ride, not an incident. As rides get more and more intense, stuff like that is just going to be a routine fact of life (see: gray-outs/blackouts on i305 or even Mission Space Orange).
 
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I doubt they're leg "injuries" but more discomfort than anything. When you experience 4x your own body weight an unnaturally large amount of blood in certain parts of your body can cause discomfort.

ASO also gets their reports from the parks themselves and unless there's a state law in place every park reports their injuries in different manners. This is why it's so hard for insurance companies to quantify safety statistics.
 
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I"m not familiar with incident reporting at theme parks, but anything raised by a guest no matter how small I'm sure is documented for liability reasons. You'll see some "stomach related injuries" too, which is probably just feeling queasy. To @Zachary's point, that's somewhat expected due to the forces involved, and the variable nature of people's health (circulatory/blood pressure/etc. differences).

That doesn't mean because people feel impacts of the forces there's a problem. It's a matter of whether it is an acceptable level. And that's the thing about safety (or security)--it's not a binary state. It's all about risk management. There's risks involved with the coasters. The park has to ensure it's a relatively low risk and that they don't do anything to increase the risk (failure of due care/diligence). Beyond that, the public needs to understand the risks and accept them to ride--and not think there isn't risk.

Which brings us back to the collar... Theater may change one's perception of risk, but doesn't really change the risk. So either the policy writer doesn't know the difference and the park can gain a financial benefit, or it really is for "comfort," which doesn't change the risk, but "maybe" the public's perception of it, and they're more likely to accept it.

I'm really hoping they opt out of any theater for this ride--and believe they are putting something together that is sufficiently attractive that they shouldn't have to coax people on to it for it to be a success.
 
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