Project 2012

[Sky]

Yes, but the park also needs an enjoyable, reridable ride, which, while not forceful, still gives a wonderfully-enjoyable ride. I believe this was brought up in another thread, i.e. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. We need something with serious reridability yet still thrilling, yet appealing to a large swathe of age groups.

Commence with the slaughtering of this post(cause I know it's coming).

-Sky

 

[oldtimer]

Yes, but the park also needs an enjoyable, reridable ride, which, while not forceful, still gives a wonderfully-enjoyable ride. I believe this was brought up in another thread, i.e. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. We need something with serious reridability yet still thrilling, yet appealing to a large swathe of age groups.

Commence with the slaughtering of this post(cause I know it's coming).

-Sky

Not from me Sky'... You are spot on.

I realize this forum can be skewed toward fans of the extreme, but there is a larger audience out there. You don't have to be push the boundries of the human body to thrill a guest. Story and quality can, and will, carry the day. I think we can all agree BBW had a story and it was a quality thrilling experience. I can only hope that "cheetahwolfautobahnhunt" will do the same.

Time will tell.

If this ends up like I-305 then count me out. Any engineer can build a thrill ride, it takes an artist to create an experience. Yes I'm talking to you Mach Tower.

 

[James]

Yes, but the park also needs an enjoyable, reridable ride, which, while not forceful, still gives a wonderfully-enjoyable ride. I believe this was brought up in another thread, i.e. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. We need something with serious reridability yet still thrilling, yet appealing to a large swathe of age groups.

Exactly

 

[Zachary]

Oldtimer, I couldn't agree more. I don't want my physical endurance or pain tolerance tested when I'm on a coaster, I just want to have a good time. That's why not a single coaster at Kings Dominion will ever be able to touch a ride at Busch Gardens. They don't understand that breaking records really isn't all that important. I really hope that Busch Gardens isn't falling into the same trap. When they announced the 2012 coaster, they stressed that it would have "multiple firsts". This claim is something that has haunted me since. Maybe they shouldn't try so many brand new things on one ride... Maybe they should take what they've learned from other rides and apply that to their new coaster with maybe one new thing. Apollo's Chariot wasn't really a ride that pushed the envelope, it was a ride that used elements found on some of the oldest coasters out there (lifts, hills, and turns) and put them together into one of the best rides on this planet.

 

[GoHokies87]

Very well put. I don't want a ride that make me feel like riding it shaves years off my life. I want a ride that is fun, marketable, and thrilling. Theming can help take a ride to the next level. What I don't want, is a coaster where you can tell they held back on some things so that they could get that 42" height requirement. Case and point, Apollo. They made a great ride, which just happens to have a lower height requirement. Also, the lower requirements tend to be on older coasters. Since they've taken out all their old coasters, the only way to really make a ride with 42" restrictions, without holding back, would be to make something like a spinning coaster or the like. I don't think that this coaster will be that ticket, but from what I hear, if it is, I probably won't like it.

 

[Zachary]

Just so everyone knows the height requirements for the rides in question...

Busch Garden's Current Coasters:
Grover's Express: 38 inches
Big Bad Wolf: 42
Loch Ness Monster: 48 inches
Apollo's Chariot: 50 inches
Alpengeist: 54 inches
Griffon: 54 inches

2012 Coaster Possibilities:
Mack Launch Coaster: About 52 inches (Blue Fire)
Intamin Launch Coaster: About 48 inches (Cheetah Hunt)
Premier Launch Coaster: About 48 inches (Skyrocket)
Gerstlauer Launch Coaster: About 48 inches (Mystery Mine)

Notice the huge 10" gap left by Big Bad Wolf- I had no idea it was that big of a gap. This kind of makes me think that the 2014 coaster may really exist. The park has to do something about that gap and I bet they know it too.

 

[Youhow2]

Nessie=Family coaster

Grover=Height gap filler

Difference noted.

Big Bad wolf was a good coaster. That said the park can take care of little kids.

Nessie was the tallest coaster in the world 35 years ago and has two inversions. That ride i know is not a kids coaster. When i was 8 I would only ride BBW because Nessie scared me to death.

Let the record reflect that Nessie was my first coaster ever (yes, before any of those useless kiddie coasters).

This is how I break it down:
Grover = 3-6
Big Bad Wolf = 6-10
Nessie = 10+

I believe that the Big Bad Wolf gap does need to be filled and I don't think that the 2012 coaster is it.

35 years ago the only looping rollercoaster I know of was revolution at six flags magic mountain... Sorry to say but that ride is as tame as a ride with an inversion gets nowadays... Now 2 short years after that Nessie did come along... But my point is back then those two rides were ground breaking in their own right. If we got the equivalent of those two now at any major park in the country, there would be some serious "WTF?" faces going on across the internet... They are kiddie or family rides if you prefer, compared to the rides of now.

Lots have changed. I'd go as far as to say that BBW was more intense then Nessie.


Also, I know ten year olds who ride Griffon and are rather short for their age. Kids like bragging to their classmates and friends about riding "the big one" so to speak. So I'd go as far as to say that because of how intense manufacturers have made their rides, the height gap between bigger rides and smaller rides is no longer as relevant as it may have been before. Why build a ride that you cant successfully bill as a big addition when you will attract new riders and guest across the age spectrum regardless? Part of bringing guest back year after year is seeing if little Johnny and Debbie are big enough to ride "the big one" year after year.

If you ask a guy like me BGE is a theme park, yet they lack the thrill rides that keeps me going back to other parks year after year. Other than the lack luster darkastle, EFP (which I refuse to ride now ever since the addition of those pay per squirt water cannons... especially that dastardly number one cannon) and the coasters, what rides do they have that you cant find in any other theme park, or carnival? They only have 4 coasters! That is an extremely low number compared to any major park in the country, and all the other major parks in the surrounding 300 mile area...


BGE needs more signature attractions, and they need more high class thrill rides. They need expansion. If they add nice little intense 48 inch height restriction launch ride I wont complain. but nowadays the caliber of coaster model that manufacturers build with a 42 inch height restriction is not too far a step above Grover... I just hope and pray the layout of what we get will be better than Cheetah Hunt.

 

[Zachary]

Nowadays the caliber of coaster model that manufacturers build with a 42 inch height restriction is not too far a step above Grover...

No.

Big Thunder Mountain Railroad: 40 inches
Test Track: 40 inches
[Tony Hawk's] Big Spin: 42 inches
Expedition Everest: 44 inches

 

[oldtimer]

Big Thunder Mountain Railroad: 40 inches
Test Track: 40 inches
[Tony Hawk's] Big Spin: 42 inches
Expedition Everest: 44 inches



You beat me to the post Swiftus.

 

[Youhow2]

Nowadays the caliber of coaster model that manufacturers build with a 42 inch height restriction is not too far a step above Grover...

Yes.

Fixed.

Big Thunder Mountain Railroad: 40 inches
Test Track: 40 inches
[Tony Hawk's] Big Spin: 42 inches
Expedition Everest: 44 inches

You actually just proved my point there. All those rides are rather bland and all rely on excellent themeing, sets and props to pull the thrill value up, all barring "Big Spin" which still is rather tame compared to even BBW. It's just a bigger higher budget model of a spinning wild mouse capable of banked turns...

Test track isnt a coaster, And you cant be serious about that one. You take away the props on that one and it is nothing. Going 70mph or w/e it is doesnt make it a thrilling ride, it just means it goes fast over a straight away and 2 turns... You can do 70 on your way headed up to BG. Seriously, imagine that ride without any props, and it would probably be the biggest joke in history, but because it has superb theming, Disney is able to pull off the illusion that the ride is more intense than what it actually is, which is the illusion to all their rides for the most part...

Big Thunder mountain is a rollercoaster... with lots of themeing that makes it look higher taller and faster than it really is. The wolf did the same thing with it's swinging making it feel faster but still, it was the very nature of the ride that made it intense. The wolf didnt need to rely on a bunch of props and an artificial structure to make it look like you are going so fast and look intense. A bunch of long drawn out turns and 15 feet drops and the amazing TOP speed of 28 miles per hour isnt gonna look like anything compared to Griffon, Apollo, Alpengeist... Even Nessie...


Expedition Everest is your best example, but It's height limit is 2 inches above the wolf, 8 inches above grover and only 4 inches away from 48, which to me would be silly to cut back on intensity for such a short span of growth that most kids will be at for under only a year or two at the absolute most. Besides the backwards portion even this ride is rather tame, and the only reason why I even dare say it's got any umph to it is the very fact it goes backwards. Other than more long drawn out turns and subtle changes in direction this ride relies on the same ol disney tricks to make it thrilling...


Busch hasnt really accomplished great themeing since Pompeii/Alpengeist outside of howl o scream IMO.

If busch is willing to spend 100 million to make a better, EE styled coaster, I wont be complaining... But seeing as that wont be happening in the foreseeable future Im just gonna go ahead and guess that these coasters are gonna be atleast a tad bit more intense than these you submitted as an example and as a result of such feature a 48 inch height limit...

 

[Zachary]

Just because Busch hasn't done any great themeing since _______ doesn't mean that they shouldn't start doing it again. The Wolf relied on the buildings during the first half of the ride to give you a feeling of speed and it worked superbly well. Why Busch hasn't been able to do simple yet well thought out themeing like this for __ number of years is a question I have as well. Thematic elements on a coaster does add to the thrill and this is normally how you build a good family coaster. To be a family coaster, everyone in the family should be able to ride it and enjoy it at the same level as everyone else (see the coasters I listed).

Big Thunder Mountain Railroad and Test Track get their thrill from their themeing.
[Tony Hawk's] Big Spin relies on the spinning mechanic (and actually does so quite well). I'd love to have an amazingly well themed (or indoor) version at Busch.
Expedition Everest uses the uniqueness of going backward and amazing themeing.

 

[Youhow2]

I do want them to build some nicely themed rides. I'd love that... But Busch doesnt have any reason to go "Disney" to provide a thrill. Instead Im almost positive they opt to make the ride's layout and elements to do the "thrilling" and sprinkle some theme all over it like Alpengeist and The wolf. The wolf had minimal themeing but it was the ride itself that was thrilling. Same with Alpengeist, you take the themeing away from it and it'd still be Alpengeist. It's a great formula if you ask me...

 

[GoHokies87]

What if bgw did something like this?

http://www.rcdb.com/4328.htm

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I'd ride it...

 

[Chris]

What if bgw did something like this?

http://www.rcdb.com/4328.htm

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I'd ride it...

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I'd boycott it.

 

[GoHokies87]

What if bgw did something like this?

http://www.rcdb.com/4328.htm

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I'd ride it...

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I'd boycott it.

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Not saying the actual ride, but a dueling coaster that appeals to different age groups. You'd be hard pressed to find me support a Vekoma. One with that theme none the less.

 

[Chris]

Not saying the actual ride, but a dueling coaster that appeals to different age groups. You'd be hard pressed for be to support a Vekoma. One with that theme none the less.

Ah, the concept, yeah, a dueling concept would be fine by me. A dueling launch coaster would be interesting and could fit the theme hinted at in that survey the park did (racing).

 

[pandorazboxx]

man, I'd totally ride that BSG coaster. Especially now that the trains are fixed.

 

[Youhow2]

That coaster,(both sides) look rather tame of course I'd probably flinching at the near miss parts... But I get your point about the concept... It is a great one if you ask me, just poor execution... but that's pretty much vekoma's modus operandi.


I'd love to see dueling launch coasters. I dont think there were ever any true Dueling launch coasters and I believe there is no longer any in existence I'd like to see it handled by Premier or Intamin though. Premier preferably as they seem to have the launch thing nailed down perfectly and I have never been let down(or seen massive downtime from something new) by anything designed by them.

 

[Zachary]

As long as it's not Vekoma.

 

[newsie]

As a reminder, the 2012 coaster and accompanying height waiver will be discussed at tomorrow night's Board of Supervisors meeting. Watch online if you can.