Spent this past weekend riding Phoenix for the first time and I have to disagree with you. I thought it was pretty good and lived up to the hype. I agree with SLC Headache that twister and flying turns deserve as much love, especially now that twister has been re-tracked and flying turns was such a unique experience.
Overhyped Rides
- Thread starter Kings Gardens
- Start date
To be fair, I blame all the corporate parks moving to the tight individual lap bars on PTC trains, making Phoenix's buzz bar a defining feature that sets it above the woodies at the other parks.
Times were, of course, the vast majority of wooden coasters had the single position buzz bars. My reaction to the advent of individual ratcheting lap bars on wood coasters circa the first half of the 90s was "WTF is this crap."
At the same time, all one had to do was look at them to understand why they would be preferable from the POV of someone in a park office, a defense attorney's firm, or an insurance company's building. Just not to someone sitting in the ride itself.
So Phoenix's buzz bars and other aspects of its operation really do set it far above so many other wood rides these days. But at the same times, it conjures memories of what a ton of wood coasters at regional competitors KD, Kennywood, Hershey, Wild World, and just about everywhere else were all like, at least in terms of configuration and operation. Which makes it that much stranger to me that Phoenix became as big a hit as it did back then, when its restraint system was the same as everyone else's and its ride dynamics were, if anything, tame by comparison to a great many then-contemporary rides.
Perhaps a cynical take here, but I tend to think Phoenix's relocation and the enthusiast excitement around it being a "saved coaster" at such a unique park led to it being a bit overinflated as a ride experience. And I further tend to think keeping it at the very top of enthusiasts' lists was in part a tacit protest against the trim brakes, track reprofiling/calming projects, train replacements, restraint "upgrades," and other efforts that really proliferated throughout the 90s at other parks while Knoebel's kept Phoenix classic.
Phoenix was/is great, but also benefited from being enthusiast leverage against the prevailing trends in 80s and 90s wood coaster construction, at a time when the (US based) enthusiast community was much more centralized within ACE and more directly connected to a smaller number of more influential media outlets. Elevating an obscure ride few people had ever heard of to a level far above the ubiquitous corporate wood coaster experience was a move worthy of precious press attention, and one of just a few levers enthusiasts really had to pull back against what was called "TPM" ("theme park mentality"): that era's partner term to the similarly sketchy notion of the "GP." It is easy to forget just how fervently the old heads in ACE at that time prioritized the mission of classic coaster preservation. Putting Phoenix and a very small number of other classic rides atop their lists constantly was part of that mission. IMO it was partially an obviously well-deserved placement, and partially an org-politics move of sorts.
Since that time, Phoenix's legend has become a self fulfilling phenomenon, becoming less a rated ride and more an unquestioned definition of the gold standard. Rated against itself, it achieves an incredibly high score every time.
Great ride, terrific experience, tremendously happy to have it here in PA. I do think the past 35+ years of fawning are just a bit much, relative to a straight assessment of the ride experience.
At the same time, all one had to do was look at them to understand why they would be preferable from the POV of someone in a park office, a defense attorney's firm, or an insurance company's building. Just not to someone sitting in the ride itself.
So Phoenix's buzz bars and other aspects of its operation really do set it far above so many other wood rides these days. But at the same times, it conjures memories of what a ton of wood coasters at regional competitors KD, Kennywood, Hershey, Wild World, and just about everywhere else were all like, at least in terms of configuration and operation. Which makes it that much stranger to me that Phoenix became as big a hit as it did back then, when its restraint system was the same as everyone else's and its ride dynamics were, if anything, tame by comparison to a great many then-contemporary rides.
Perhaps a cynical take here, but I tend to think Phoenix's relocation and the enthusiast excitement around it being a "saved coaster" at such a unique park led to it being a bit overinflated as a ride experience. And I further tend to think keeping it at the very top of enthusiasts' lists was in part a tacit protest against the trim brakes, track reprofiling/calming projects, train replacements, restraint "upgrades," and other efforts that really proliferated throughout the 90s at other parks while Knoebel's kept Phoenix classic.
Phoenix was/is great, but also benefited from being enthusiast leverage against the prevailing trends in 80s and 90s wood coaster construction, at a time when the (US based) enthusiast community was much more centralized within ACE and more directly connected to a smaller number of more influential media outlets. Elevating an obscure ride few people had ever heard of to a level far above the ubiquitous corporate wood coaster experience was a move worthy of precious press attention, and one of just a few levers enthusiasts really had to pull back against what was called "TPM" ("theme park mentality"): that era's partner term to the similarly sketchy notion of the "GP." It is easy to forget just how fervently the old heads in ACE at that time prioritized the mission of classic coaster preservation. Putting Phoenix and a very small number of other classic rides atop their lists constantly was part of that mission. IMO it was partially an obviously well-deserved placement, and partially an org-politics move of sorts.
Since that time, Phoenix's legend has become a self fulfilling phenomenon, becoming less a rated ride and more an unquestioned definition of the gold standard. Rated against itself, it achieves an incredibly high score every time.
Great ride, terrific experience, tremendously happy to have it here in PA. I do think the past 35+ years of fawning are just a bit much, relative to a straight assessment of the ride experience.
Yes very much where my opinion comes from.
Again, that's my issue with it being basically an "untouched" #1. It's years and years of fawning over a great ride where some enthusiasts look to knock other rides to keep it #1.
Yes I think BoulderDash is great, but so is Ravine Flyer II, Jack Rabbit, Thunderbolt, Comet, Voyage, and Beast (all in my Woddie Top 10 BTW). But to be honest the whole historical aspect of it being so great kinda makes a case for Leap The Dips being MASSIVELY underrated as a ride.
Boulder Dash is one of those rides that feels incredibly faster than it really is. Sitting in the rear of the train prevents you from seeing anything until the return trip. Good length, an awesome first drop, solid floater, and an epic sense of speed make it my #1.
I think Skyrush and Maverick are really overrated.
I think Skyrush and Maverick are really overrated.
Them be some fightin' words right there.
Maverick slightly under delivered for me but I’m tall with broad shoulders, it seemed like that limited my airtime, and it had to follow up……um Steel Vengenace? Not a fun ride to follow up for any ride.
Skyrush is like riding a powered Walmart shopping cart thru downtown Richmond
Sounds like you're speaking from experience.
I know no one in this thread is talking about fury, but I gotta get my opinion out there after riding it for the first time in June. fury is the most overhyped coaster I've ever ridden. I've ridden I305, Fury, and Millenium force and fury was the worst of the 3 and it's not even close. Airtime is good I guess but it isn't better than any good B&M hyper per say. Intimidator (CW) had better airtime than fury did.
Fury is a ride that must be ridden in the front to truly appreciate its speed and aggressiveness. Otherwise yeah it can be one of those rides that your expectations are set too high by the internet and then you’re like “yeah that was fun….”
Absolutely not. The hype is real for this, nothing of this scale has EVER been attempted, the view from the spike looking straight down is going to be NUTS. I could not be more hyped for TT2
I've ridden Leviathan in addition to the three gigas you've mentioned, and Leviathan feels like an unrefined first attempt in comparison to Fury, I returned from Canada with a new appreciation for Fury. (I'm waiting until KI Vortex plot redevelopment to return to Cincinnati and evaluate Orion.)
I kind of hate this topic. It's just about belittling coasters that others like and then them defending it. What is the point?
I believe in the front and especially in the back left the ride is a world-class speed showcase and airtime machine but my rides in the middle were relatively disappointing. In the back you get a nice pop of airtime on every little transition and drop but in the middle you only really get any airtime on the first drop treble clef and ending hills.
Alpengeist is good and all, but gets very shaky especially towards the back of the train. That makes me question why people think this is one of the best B&Ms. Most of it is basically inversion after inversion. Do not get me started on that unqualified snap into and buzzkill of speed on the MCBR. I found Great Bear to be more tolerable and it even has some diversity in elements like the pre-drop helix, the downward left helix after the zero-g roll, and how you start veering left but then veer into a right hand corkscrew. These elements were more punchy than they appear off ride.
I actually think we've gone too far in the other direction with coaster design - whipping and airtime, mostly staying upright, with rolls being the most popular inversion. Give me a classic loop-de-loop every now and then.