OktoberZest
- Thread starter Zachary
- Start date
As a performer, I throughly appreciate feedback -- It's what makes me a better performer. However, the negativity that I've seen on this site is absolutely disgusting. I will begin with the acknowledgement that it was stated the Oktoberzest cast is talented. I've been thinking for while if I should respond and to be honest I probably shouldn't, but it's gone on far too long. I don't think you guys understand how your negativity affects the performers. They read your comments and then see you in the audience (still watching a show, in which you think is terrible.)
When I ask these next questions, do not think they are coming from some "butt-hurt" performer, as we get on a stage daily and continue to perform a show, you paid to see.
Question 1: What are your qualifications for a great show at a Theme Park?
Question 2: What would you like to see changed in Oktoberzest?
(Opening costumes are not an answer based upon your thoughts about pornography)
Question 3: What credentials do you have to critique a show?
(BFA, BA, MFA, Community Theatre, or Years of coming to Busch Gardens)
Question 4: Are there any questions that you have about the show, which you'd like further explanation too?
Question 5: If a show is not to your liking, why return back to watch it?
That's 25-30mins that could be spent waiting in line for Invadr...
It really is confusing to see faces in the crowd that continuously post about not coming to see a show, yet come to see that show multiple times throughout a season. This post being in the Oktoberfest thread, I am also speaking for all the other shows throughout all seasons at Busch Gardens. Just be careful what you post online, as it can be read by anyone. Not saying that you're not entitled to your opinions; however, being more constructive and giving examples or suggestions in how to better a product would be more beneficial.
If you made it this far... thank you for taking the time to read.
In closing, when creating this account it read:
See You In The Festhaus Soon!
When I ask these next questions, do not think they are coming from some "butt-hurt" performer, as we get on a stage daily and continue to perform a show, you paid to see.
Question 1: What are your qualifications for a great show at a Theme Park?
Question 2: What would you like to see changed in Oktoberzest?
(Opening costumes are not an answer based upon your thoughts about pornography)
Question 3: What credentials do you have to critique a show?
(BFA, BA, MFA, Community Theatre, or Years of coming to Busch Gardens)
Question 4: Are there any questions that you have about the show, which you'd like further explanation too?
Question 5: If a show is not to your liking, why return back to watch it?
That's 25-30mins that could be spent waiting in line for Invadr...
It really is confusing to see faces in the crowd that continuously post about not coming to see a show, yet come to see that show multiple times throughout a season. This post being in the Oktoberfest thread, I am also speaking for all the other shows throughout all seasons at Busch Gardens. Just be careful what you post online, as it can be read by anyone. Not saying that you're not entitled to your opinions; however, being more constructive and giving examples or suggestions in how to better a product would be more beneficial.
If you made it this far... thank you for taking the time to read.
In closing, when creating this account it read:
See You In The Festhaus Soon!
I understand that it sucks to be required to play a role in a bad show. I get it. You are just doing your jobs. We appreciate the work the performers put into the show every day and people have voiced that a number of times now in this thread.
That said, the show is, at least in my opinion, very bad. I gave a few reasons as per why I hold that opinion earlier in this thread. Unfortunately, right now, I'm not in a position to answer your questions in full (phone keyboard), but I encourage others to do so in the meantime.
Also, the people who are coming back to see your show repeatedly (I've only managed to come once), must see something redeeming about the show, correct? Given the poor reception of the show itself, it sounds as though the redeeming quality has to be the performers themselves, no? If that's the case, it seems like return visitors should be a good thing for cast morale, yeah?
Busch Gardens Williamsburg has been putting on a handful of horrid shows (especially in DFH) for years now. At least once a year a performer from one of those shows decides to make an account and tries appeal to the collective emotion of this forum—wishing that we would silence our opinions for the good of the cast and crew. I get why it happens and I sympathize with the people who do it. I'm sure that it can be gut wrenching to read overwhelming negative reviews of something you're all working so hard on.
What has to get through is that we know none of this is the fault of the cast and crew. Especially in the case of OktoberZest, all of its problems fall on the shoulders of production.
Some of the performers who have shown up in threads like this one come to realize that we are actually on the same side. This community just wants to see the Das Festhaus cast performing in a great show. Theoretically the cast wants the same. Production is the issue.
That said, the show is, at least in my opinion, very bad. I gave a few reasons as per why I hold that opinion earlier in this thread. Unfortunately, right now, I'm not in a position to answer your questions in full (phone keyboard), but I encourage others to do so in the meantime.
Also, the people who are coming back to see your show repeatedly (I've only managed to come once), must see something redeeming about the show, correct? Given the poor reception of the show itself, it sounds as though the redeeming quality has to be the performers themselves, no? If that's the case, it seems like return visitors should be a good thing for cast morale, yeah?
Busch Gardens Williamsburg has been putting on a handful of horrid shows (especially in DFH) for years now. At least once a year a performer from one of those shows decides to make an account and tries appeal to the collective emotion of this forum—wishing that we would silence our opinions for the good of the cast and crew. I get why it happens and I sympathize with the people who do it. I'm sure that it can be gut wrenching to read overwhelming negative reviews of something you're all working so hard on.
What has to get through is that we know none of this is the fault of the cast and crew. Especially in the case of OktoberZest, all of its problems fall on the shoulders of production.
Some of the performers who have shown up in threads like this one come to realize that we are actually on the same side. This community just wants to see the Das Festhaus cast performing in a great show. Theoretically the cast wants the same. Production is the issue.
I have not seen the show myself, but let me try to address some of your concerns from the perspective of someome who grew disinterested of shows during the Scott G. days. I admit that when would do shows at the park, I would sometimes watch a show that I didn't like on a creative level because of the talent. I don't know if that makes the talent feel better, but I mean it as a compliment. There have also been shows where, personally, I felt bad for the performers because you've been put in silly roles where your talent has been squandered (Kilarney Kommotion and London Rocks immediately jump to mind) and wish the shows were improved to use that talent.
Another thing that I would like to convey is that a lot of us on the forums like to joke a lot. We know each other personally on the forums so when we say things, some people might not realize that it's joke.
I would like to apologize to any performer that has felt discouraged by anything I have said in the past. I know the performers have little to do with the creative decision making while being the public face of the shows to one of the most rabid fan communities out there.
Another thing that I would like to convey is that a lot of us on the forums like to joke a lot. We know each other personally on the forums so when we say things, some people might not realize that it's joke.
I would like to apologize to any performer that has felt discouraged by anything I have said in the past. I know the performers have little to do with the creative decision making while being the public face of the shows to one of the most rabid fan communities out there.
Well I think it's a perfect show and we should never say anything that hurts people's feelings because the internet is famously a safe space where everyone gets along.
Thomas said:
I believe my post was misunderstood...
"Not saying that you're not entitled to your opinions; however, being more constructive and giving examples or suggestions in how to better a product would be more beneficial. "
We are more than willing to mold the show to help put out a better product for everyone. Posting that you won't see a show or dislike is valid, but since I'm sure you're aware that performers and production reads your posts, adding what you would like to see, would be a great help.
Loose Cannon said:
I'll be more than happy to answer those questions.
1. I think for what makes or breaks a show at any theme park for me is talent, tone, and production. If a show does badly with all three than it's kind of pointless to watch it (take note that this is my personal observation).
2. First, I think the opening sequence should be heavily revised to fit with the rest of the show because it and the black and white costumes don't mesh well with the show that's about to unfold before us (the parts with the amazing violin player stays) that the tone wavers. Second, the song "Edelweiss" could be easily replaced with any of the beautiful German choral songs that are around. Third, the finale song could again be easily replaced by different jubilant German songs that could still get the point across. Fourth, the lighting design could be a bit better and used to it's advantage. Fifth, a real band to play the music can definitely help with any sound issues the show might get. And the sixth thing I would love to see changed is that some of the choreography can be more German and less all over the place which is what some fans have noticed.
3. The years I've been going to Busch Gardens, and watching a lot of live show videos for studying certainly helps.
4. 1: How did this show come to be for Das Festhaus? 2: Why is the opening sequence and costumes the way it is (before "Edelweiss")?
5. Despite it's problems I had with it, this is a show I kinda like and don't mind watching time and time again. It has some things that makes it worth watching for me.
I'm honestly just speaking for myself and not for anyone at Busch. As someone stated previously, it's a mix of German culture, similar to Oktoberfest. The opening and other parts of the show are based upon german schuhplattler.
Thanks everyone for your feedback.
Thanks everyone for your feedback.
The beginning of the show feels very dull and uninteresting. Nothing captivates me. The Country Roads song does not feel far out of place, but it still feels odd. I really liked the wood chopping scene, it was the only scene that reminded me of a German cuckoo clock, which is what I thought the show was about because of the set. Regardless, anything involving dangerous tools in a show is interesting to me. Must be why I like the knife act for Monster Stomp so much . . . or it could be the shirtless guys?
VonDerrick said:
I agree, the beginning of the show was by far the weakest aspect of the whole thing for me and it needs to be heavily revised. Along with other changes too.
Welcome to the boards.
Hey Loose Cannons (can I call you LC for short? thanks!). I decided to provide perspective after reading your post yesterday (for a couple reasons I'll get into later in my wall of text). I would like to say upfront, I hope you continue to post here; the trend, as Zachary pointed out, is for performers to create an account as a means to do a verbal drive-by and then never return. I welcome you to the board, and hope you stick around.
But first, let me answer your questions:
Question 1: A great show, if one were to exist, is probably not at a theme park.
Question 2: Nothing as of yet. I haven't seen it. Chances are I won't see it for various reasons (mostly due to the fact I've only been to BGW once in the last few years but it also doesn't help that I'm not much of a theme park show enthusiast to begin with)
Question 3: I go to theme parks. Truth is, anyone who buys a ticket to a theme park can, if they so deem themselves worthy, be critical of the services said park provides.
Question 4: Not really.
Question 5: There's a myriad of reasons why someone would watch a show they don't care for more than once at a the park. Take your show, for example: it sits right in the middle of a climate controlled eating spot next to many, many beer taps.
Those are my answers - but your questions are not really what I wanted to respond to. I think the whole of your post is more provocative.
First, I think it's important you understand my perspective because you're probably thinking, why is some guy who doesn't care for theme park shows even posting right now? Well, in short - I am a performer too. I play music and have been in So Cal and DC bands for the last ten years. I've been on tour, I've pumped out records, and I've done everything imaginable with regards to putting together musical projects (and continue to do so, to this day). I also run a monthly night in DC for other bands to play, and have created my own record label. Mind you, I'm not trying to wow anyone with my musical resume - I'm just giving you some context.
The reason why I bring all this up is because I want to let you know, I know your pain. Nothing is worse than getting slammed online by people you don't know. A few years back, my band released a 45 in Europe and the first sets of reviews online were tepid, at best. A few critics hammered us for bad/strange production. Truthfully, I was ok with the beatings we were taking (mainly because I agreed with the points made)... But then some anonymous poster basically said we were boring and I lost my shit. WHA WHA WHAT???!?!?!? Who was this dude? Boring? Ok, fucko, you try picking up a trombone then and see how good your Reggae single would sound.
The nerve of some people, right? Well, after cooling down for a few minutes (read: weeks) I realized a couple of things and maybe they might lend some sense to the situation you're in with OctoberZest.
So I hope the above is helpful. If not, then feel free to disregard.
I also wanted to get into this:
I don't think you understand how weird this community is. Theme park fans are really, really strange. Some people are here because they love shows, like the one you're in. Some people are here because they love roller coasters. Some people are here because they love themed experiences. Some people are here because of Halloween. Some people are here for pure nostalgia. Some people are here because of their kids. And yet we all co-mingle because all of the above falls under the umbrella of going to a park like BGW.
When it comes to shows at parks, my thoughts drift to "you get what you paid for." I don't have high expectations for 10-15-20 minute minuets while I'm drinking a beer. If I wanted Broadway (which I don't, by the way) I'd go buy a ticket for Les Mis. I don't understand why some park-goers think otherwise, but they do - it matters to them. To some degree, I don't think there's any pleasing these people but who knows since I'm pretty indifferent toward these types of park experiences. I can only speak for myself.
I'm assuming you're young(er), LC, and therefore may not understand that under Anheiser-Busch, the company pumped in way more money into BGW than a regional park typically would receive for operations. I believe, though I could be wrong, this is why you see so many people with lofty expectations. The end result is many BGW fans have Disneyland-like taste but on a carnival budget (zing!). Also, apparently shows went to shit under Scott Gasparich but I, again, wouldn't know since I've maybe only seen 4 different shows in my 15+ years of going to BGW. I do think conceptually London Rocks is/was crazy but I can't really pass judgement on something I never experienced. And, since I'm thinking about Scotty G (that's his street name) I think ripping out the Octoberfest stage was kind of a dumb move.
Anyhow, I hope the above makes sense. If it doesn't, don't worry about it and keep doing what you're doing. Few people here know how hard it is to get in front of a crowd and I commend you for it. And again, please don't be a stranger on the board (though I can't blame you if you choose not to stick around).
But first, let me answer your questions:
Loose Cannon said:
Question 1: A great show, if one were to exist, is probably not at a theme park.
Question 2: Nothing as of yet. I haven't seen it. Chances are I won't see it for various reasons (mostly due to the fact I've only been to BGW once in the last few years but it also doesn't help that I'm not much of a theme park show enthusiast to begin with)
Question 3: I go to theme parks. Truth is, anyone who buys a ticket to a theme park can, if they so deem themselves worthy, be critical of the services said park provides.
Question 4: Not really.
Question 5: There's a myriad of reasons why someone would watch a show they don't care for more than once at a the park. Take your show, for example: it sits right in the middle of a climate controlled eating spot next to many, many beer taps.
Those are my answers - but your questions are not really what I wanted to respond to. I think the whole of your post is more provocative.
First, I think it's important you understand my perspective because you're probably thinking, why is some guy who doesn't care for theme park shows even posting right now? Well, in short - I am a performer too. I play music and have been in So Cal and DC bands for the last ten years. I've been on tour, I've pumped out records, and I've done everything imaginable with regards to putting together musical projects (and continue to do so, to this day). I also run a monthly night in DC for other bands to play, and have created my own record label. Mind you, I'm not trying to wow anyone with my musical resume - I'm just giving you some context.
The reason why I bring all this up is because I want to let you know, I know your pain. Nothing is worse than getting slammed online by people you don't know. A few years back, my band released a 45 in Europe and the first sets of reviews online were tepid, at best. A few critics hammered us for bad/strange production. Truthfully, I was ok with the beatings we were taking (mainly because I agreed with the points made)... But then some anonymous poster basically said we were boring and I lost my shit. WHA WHA WHAT???!?!?!? Who was this dude? Boring? Ok, fucko, you try picking up a trombone then and see how good your Reggae single would sound.
The nerve of some people, right? Well, after cooling down for a few minutes (read: weeks) I realized a couple of things and maybe they might lend some sense to the situation you're in with OctoberZest.
- Someone I didn't know was listening to my song. That's pretty cool, right? Sure, they didn't care for it. But the idea that somehow something I did got to someone clear across the world. Well, that's something, for sure. For you, you get to get out there in front of new people every day and do your something. And let me tell you, when it comes to performing doing something is far better than doing nothing at all.
- It takes everyone to succeed, but it takes so little to fail. I have the masters of my recordings. They're good. The tracking is excellent. The playing is tight. But the post production was, in my opinion (and apparently others) terrible. And it sunk my final product. So with OctoberZest, maybe the performers are excellent, and everything else is popping off, but something outside of your control is causing people to frown. Maybe the source material is wonky? Maybe the setting is wrong? Or, maybe it's overly ambitious? I have no idea but just because you're doing your part and everything is seemingly good, doesn't mean the overall goal of the show is being achieved. And that's a tough pill to swallow because it means that despite your best efforts, it's just not happening.
- I inadvertently signed up to be shit on and as a performer, it will always be that way. It's funny how this never gets easier for me, but any time I put out something new I'm always surprised how affected I am by people being negative. With time, I've learned to accept that everyone is indeed a critic, to no fault of their own. People like what they like, and dislike what they don't like - and are typically vocal about it. And to make matters worse, everyone has a dedicated website about themselves where they can spout off vapid thoughts, show off pictures of their food and/or kids, and generally incubate their narcissistic tendencies.
So I hope the above is helpful. If not, then feel free to disregard.
I also wanted to get into this:
Loose Cannon said:
I don't think you understand how weird this community is. Theme park fans are really, really strange. Some people are here because they love shows, like the one you're in. Some people are here because they love roller coasters. Some people are here because they love themed experiences. Some people are here because of Halloween. Some people are here for pure nostalgia. Some people are here because of their kids. And yet we all co-mingle because all of the above falls under the umbrella of going to a park like BGW.
When it comes to shows at parks, my thoughts drift to "you get what you paid for." I don't have high expectations for 10-15-20 minute minuets while I'm drinking a beer. If I wanted Broadway (which I don't, by the way) I'd go buy a ticket for Les Mis. I don't understand why some park-goers think otherwise, but they do - it matters to them. To some degree, I don't think there's any pleasing these people but who knows since I'm pretty indifferent toward these types of park experiences. I can only speak for myself.
I'm assuming you're young(er), LC, and therefore may not understand that under Anheiser-Busch, the company pumped in way more money into BGW than a regional park typically would receive for operations. I believe, though I could be wrong, this is why you see so many people with lofty expectations. The end result is many BGW fans have Disneyland-like taste but on a carnival budget (zing!). Also, apparently shows went to shit under Scott Gasparich but I, again, wouldn't know since I've maybe only seen 4 different shows in my 15+ years of going to BGW. I do think conceptually London Rocks is/was crazy but I can't really pass judgement on something I never experienced. And, since I'm thinking about Scotty G (that's his street name) I think ripping out the Octoberfest stage was kind of a dumb move.
Anyhow, I hope the above makes sense. If it doesn't, don't worry about it and keep doing what you're doing. Few people here know how hard it is to get in front of a crowd and I commend you for it. And again, please don't be a stranger on the board (though I can't blame you if you choose not to stick around).
THIS! SO MUCH THIS!
I too have been thinking of your questions... Uncle Duncan summed up my feelings, mostly. I want to add a couple things.
Question 3: I was a Lighting and Set Design major and Commercial Music Minor in the Conservatory at Shenandoah University. I have several productions under my belt including many 30 minute shows.
Listening to critics is always a hard thing. Generally when it comes to these shows I only talk about the lighting, sets, and sound, because they are my wheel house. However I have training in dance, music, and acting. (Frankly I leave ALL dance to Nicole, she is an expert)
If you want my opinion on the topics I claim some expertise, I will be more than happy to say a few things. But that is not why I am writing.
Once backstage I overheard an actor complaining about a review in the Washington Post. Hal Herman (our director, mentor, and department head (may he rest in peace)) said, "ahhhh, (name redacted) if you can not handle negative reviews from a regional paper you will get eaten alive in NYC where there will be at least 300 that look and sound just like you auditioning for the same part"
Mr. Herman was not known for mincing words.
I too have been thinking of your questions... Uncle Duncan summed up my feelings, mostly. I want to add a couple things.
Question 3: I was a Lighting and Set Design major and Commercial Music Minor in the Conservatory at Shenandoah University. I have several productions under my belt including many 30 minute shows.
Listening to critics is always a hard thing. Generally when it comes to these shows I only talk about the lighting, sets, and sound, because they are my wheel house. However I have training in dance, music, and acting. (Frankly I leave ALL dance to Nicole, she is an expert)
If you want my opinion on the topics I claim some expertise, I will be more than happy to say a few things. But that is not why I am writing.
Once backstage I overheard an actor complaining about a review in the Washington Post. Hal Herman (our director, mentor, and department head (may he rest in peace)) said, "ahhhh, (name redacted) if you can not handle negative reviews from a regional paper you will get eaten alive in NYC where there will be at least 300 that look and sound just like you auditioning for the same part"
Mr. Herman was not known for mincing words.
I should probably have stated from the beginning, I'm actually not in Oktoberzest. It's just a constant theme that I've seen from a few threads. You are more than entitled to your opinions, positive or negative, but in this forum setting it would be nice to see more responses that opened the discussion further. I know my post came off as if, I can't handle negative critiques, I prefer them actually because that gives me further insight on what I need to work on as a performer.
Thank you all for your responses.
Thank you all for your responses.
It has said before but I will mention it again. There are any number of sites out there that say nothing but praise for BGW, the rides, shows, and food. We are not that site. Ideally you will find honest criticism here backed by examples of the work and explanations. These opinions are always up for debate. As Nicole mentioned in another thread intelligent people can always agree to disagree, debate is not about winning.
If performers, their parents, the park, or whomever only want to hear glowing things, they should move on to one of the aforementioned blogs. If that is not to their liking, they can always, as has been done before, open their own site.
If performers, their parents, the park, or whomever only want to hear glowing things, they should move on to one of the aforementioned blogs. If that is not to their liking, they can always, as has been done before, open their own site.
I finally saw the show today at Noon. I like it.
I view the opening sequence as a “German Stomp” in formal lederhosen. I see the black lederhosen as nighttime attire similar to black tie and tails. In the next section, the violinist was excellent. Try to get to the show early and see her and the accordionist interact with the crowd. The violinist does a great Star Wars theme. But I digress and back to the show. The costume change brings in a different energy. Much lighter. Edelweiss was beautiful. The grist mill sequences are completely appropriate and really showcase the physical strengths as well as the choreography of the performers and the show’s creators. The wood shopping reminded me of Clocktober and it was fun to watch. It was good that the Chicken Dance did remain and there was a lot of audience involvement. I did feel that the “County Road” section was out of place and I would have really preferred a sequence similar to TIO’s Happy Wanderer. Overall I really enjoyed this show. I will watch it again.
I view the opening sequence as a “German Stomp” in formal lederhosen. I see the black lederhosen as nighttime attire similar to black tie and tails. In the next section, the violinist was excellent. Try to get to the show early and see her and the accordionist interact with the crowd. The violinist does a great Star Wars theme. But I digress and back to the show. The costume change brings in a different energy. Much lighter. Edelweiss was beautiful. The grist mill sequences are completely appropriate and really showcase the physical strengths as well as the choreography of the performers and the show’s creators. The wood shopping reminded me of Clocktober and it was fun to watch. It was good that the Chicken Dance did remain and there was a lot of audience involvement. I did feel that the “County Road” section was out of place and I would have really preferred a sequence similar to TIO’s Happy Wanderer. Overall I really enjoyed this show. I will watch it again.
jornor said:
It was meh. I'm not a fan of the cover art, either. But whatever, I got to record with living legends so that was all good.