Howl-O-Scream 2011 Rumors

[MMMU]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

you are generalizing KD into "Hookers and Torture Porn" when that is only ONE house out of like 8 Doc.... it is upsetting that someone would completely disregard something because of one thing, your point is the same as someone saying. I don't like Santa's beard so I'm not going to Christmas Town when that is just rediculous, sure KD has blood and BG (for the most part) doesn't but KD could clean all the blood out of EVERY Maze they do and MOST of them would be 10x better then HOS houses... but if you think we are getting a zombie maze with zero blood your crazy, unless I'm wrong, but if I'm wrong than HOS is going to be really bad this year, and just let me say one more thing. I HAVE NEVER BEEN DISSAPOINTED WITH HOS, but I'm not particularly happy either.

 

[Parkgoer]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

And at the end of the day BG will still have the higher attendance numbers. That is all that matters to the bottom line.

 

[Youhow2]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

I appreciate your love of the horror genre, as it's clear that you have one. To me (and I'm speaking only for myself), saying that everything scary = Halloween is like saying everything cheerful = Christmas. Every happy movie isn't a Christmas movie. Christmas is a festival holiday, and like all festivals, there are symbols and rituals that fit the mold, and then those that fall outside of it. Halloween is no different.

You cant compare Halloween to Christmas. But even you said that The Grinch and Christmas Carol share their place nowadays as Christmas Traditions...

The literature of the Gothic time period was for a while all you had, and it simply is no longer the case. New Horror Novels were written, Movies were invented and made... When you think of Iconic Monsters and their place in Halloween now, you think of Micheal Myers, Freddy Kruger, Jason Voorhees and yes, even Dr. Jigsaw. Horror literature is Horror literature, regardless of the time period. We deal now with new media and to discredit modern Horror media and it's rightful place in Halloween culture is absurd.

But there's a limit, and a line, and I think that some of the things you seem to advocate fall beyond the line. A scary looking lumberjack running around in New France with a chain saw and Racoon skin hat (or something like that) is a far cry from reliving the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and seriously wondering whether I'm getting out alive. Likewise, there's a difference between some crazy clowns in Festa Italia, and encountering hookers and drug abusers outside of the Globe Theater.
[quote\]


The difference between that guy running around with chainsaw in New France and leatherface is that while they both can be scary, Leatherface has a STORY. Leatherface is MORE than a random excuse to get antsy, He's a character built up with certain defining characteristics that make him scary. His story has a time, a place and a setting, he has a REASON to be killing people, and it's a scary reason.

In a way, this is all very funny and Ironic, because what you argue is wrong with modern Horror films is in a way exactly what Busch has done with their event. Provide no story, no reason, very little character and no meaning behind anything that's happening. It's just a wild romp with scary things happening and a bunch of gore and nonsense for no reason...

Also, If there were ever hookers and drug abusers outside the globe theatre, it'd be the most intense thing busch has ever done in regards to setting up an accurate period theme... But again, If you read everything I said about Kd's use of these things, they've all been used to convey the theme of a shady town area and they were not using these things for scares, they had actors in place portraying these roles for atmosphere and story according to a theme they deemed suitable for a haunted house inside their park... They had absolutely nothing to do with "THE" theme. The theme was/is vampires using the allure of a new nightclub to harvest blood, you know... like vampires need to survive?

Story =/= Theme.


And we arent arguing attendance numbers, we are arguing quality experiences. Considering the amount of ranting certain people have been doing about the decline of quality entertainment in the parks, I believe my little rants on HOS are justified...

 

[spookybri]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

Really?! Don't we do this every year? "KD haunt is scarier, BG has more class and follows halloween tradition." Can't we just drop it, if you don't have nothing nice to say don't say it at all. I myself haven't had the chance to go to KD haunt, but I probably will one day. So I don't have any right to talk bad about it. The only halloween event I've been to is Howloscream, so I can't say anything about any other event. Can't we be friend and sing ring around the rosie

On a side note, I'm really excited about fear fair.

 

[DrMoneyReturns]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

Buddy, if you're trying to convince me that I should prefer a recreation of the SAW movies at HoS instead of what's currently there, you can stop. I don't like that stuff. It has nothing to do with Halloween, to me. I'm not discrediting modern horror films, I never said there was anything wrong with them, even. You put those words in my mouth (or, posts, as it were). They have no place at Busch Gardens Williamsburg's HoS event, in my opinion.

If you want to make points about lighting and props, fine. More actors? Fine. Rob Zombie's House of a Thousand Corpses? Go somewhere else. There is no reason for you to load that stuff into BGW. None. They don't gel with the theme, they don't serve the general audience.

Busch Gardens is a G rated park that goes PG-13 for Halloween. If you want the hard R, go to Universal Studios. Go to KD.

You can have theming improvements without crossing that line, you can have production improvements without crossing that line.

Scout pointed out that attendance will be higher at BG. While you claim it doesn't matter, I think it tells you something about the appetite of the populace. They are presented every year with a choice. They choose how they choose, and they choose Busch Gardens, more often, than King's Dominion. Busch Gardens thus has no incentive to emulate what you see as the "better" approach of King's Dominion. So just go to King's Dominion and be done with it, or find an empty lot and start your own haunted house.

 

[Youhow2]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

Nowadays Im starting to think that if KD and Busch were right beside each other, More people would opt for the season pass to KD and it would have more repeat visitors. Only reason why I dont frequent KD like I do busch is the simple fact is that it's over an hour away...


You said it yourself you have never been to KD's haunt. MMMU said like Im about to that KD's haunt isnt really the "Gore-tacular" you guys paint it out to be. The way I see Busch is PG-13 like "The Ring". Kings Dominion on the other hand is PG-13 like "Drag me to Hell". HHN is NR.


I thought I went out my way to illustrate that there is more than one way to do Horror... All Im saying is Busch doesnt do scary well, at all and they should you know, try. That's all Im saying. Im not trying to change your preference, but you (DocMMD) said that you dont like Horror, and pretty much equated everything that isnt Busch to "horror" and then went on to said in your opinion all the other events are "horror" events, and only Busch does Halloween events...

Am I the only one who saw anything wrong with that?


Im just saying busch could learn a thing or two from the other players in the field. It's not about me wanting them to be HHN. HHN is an amazing event for what it is. It's a role model very much so in the way Disney is for theme park attractions, but not everyone is trying to be Disney. I'm not expecting Busch to beat out HHN, they are playing two similar, but different games. There are things Busch can learn from other events and do right by their standards.

The way I see it, you guys are defending them sending 4 guys into an area and calling it a scare zone. Stuff like that is my gripe with HOS, NOT the content, because if the content was handled correctly it COULD be more scary, and offer a better experience...

 

[Parkgoer]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

If BG is throwing down good numbers with what they are doing then changing it WOULD be dumb. If it stops working THEN that would be the time to change it up. If you have a good poker hand then you play it. When you don't then you rethink your strategy. Playing a different strategy would be bad for Busch right now with the good thing they have going…. Outside of the rather small amount that are unhappy.

 

[Youhow2]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

There was a general aura of disappointment last year, Now would be wise to make a change. I mean you do remember the facebook wall right?

 

[Parkgoer]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

There was a general aura of disappointment last year, Now would be wise to make a change. I mean you do remember the facebook wall right?

The Facebook wall that represents very little of the ~40,000 park guests. The Facebook argument is nonsense.

 

[Youhow2]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

No, it's only nonsense if you dont think that those feelings can be actually representative of guest thoughts. In this day and agae if people are willing to post about it on a facebook wall, they are probably generally displeased with it. Not to mention BGW has the most active wall of any theme park I've seen...

 

[Parkgoer]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

No, it's only nonsense if you dont think that those feelings can be actually representative of guest thoughts. In this day and agae if people are willing to post about it on a facebook wall, they are probably generally displeased with it. Not to mention BGW has the most active wall of any theme park I've seen...

Because BGW has yet to block people from posting to their wall… Which more then likely will end up happening. Shows much they care about the "Facebook" opinion.

In this day of age people will post anything on Facebook… ANYTHING. The fact they posted shows nothing other than the fact they don't really care. IF they actually cared then they would do an actual survey.

OYEA. One Disney or Uni post usually generates more comments than Busch does in its entirety in a month.

 

[DrMoneyReturns]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

I agree. The element of the audience that is vocal about something on the internet represents less than 10% of the total audience. On top of that, people are FAR more likely to take the time to post a negative review of something than a positive one. If I buy something at Best Buy, take it home and hook it up, and it works perfectly, I'm usually not going to think to jump online and write a blog about it. BUT, if I take him home, hook it up, and nothing happens...then I might want to give BB and the manufacturer a piece of my mind.

Youhow, so long as you're not making the case that it would be an improvement for BG to take an edgier, more extreme approach (in line with HHN, the darker parts of KD), then we've got no argument.

 

[RocketChk]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

It feels like everyone's arguing their points like someone is going to win this argument. This is a debate Bri that should happen every year after an event happens that can be compared to another.

And let me put this disclaimer- I am a huge HHN fan. I passionately wait for this time of year and I spend way too much money on eBay on souvenirs. Therefore, I am a little bias when it comes to haunts.

In my opinion, if you're going to do a Halloween event, go all out. Tampa and HHN are vacation destinations during this time because of the caliber of product they produce. Why can't BGW get to that same level? And just because BGW is a "family" park the rest of the year, why not bend the rules a little just for those few weeks? Do that and the families you loose will be replaced with haunt enthusiasts flying in and spending more money on shirts and overpriced shot glasses.

As far as attendance goes, BGW is better positioned location wise than KD. You've got close to 2 million people in Hampton Roads compare to about 1.2 million in the Richmond area. Put KD down here and they'd be pulling the same numbers. KD is a b!tch to get up to from here with no hotel industry in Doswell and no Jamestown/Williamsburg experience to justify coming from out of the area for a weeklong visit. BGW is fortunate to have that.

I don't agree with the common idea around here that each maze has to be themed for the area it's in. MyX and House of Vayne had nothing to do with Africa. And before you say "but Tampa has to compete with HHN"- why not start a haunt war up here too? If either KD or BGW were to bring a HHN level product here, you best be sure the other would try to out do it.

The beauty of HOS really is in the eye of the beholder. Just because you have a definition of what is scary, doesn't mean I'm scared of it. Just because you think HOS does Halloween right, doesn't mean I think they do. And you really can't compare KD and BGW if you haven't experienced both.

 

[Youhow2]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

I just doubt they dont care about the opinions on the facebook wall.


Not everything is simple with one answer like you make it out to be ScoutN. If I were Busch I'd atleast be "aware" of what type of feedback the park is receiving from social media outlets. I mean it is part of the reason it exist.

 

[bgwfans787]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

i think they do pay attention to their facebook wall, because you always see them posting stuff on facebook, and commenting on peoples posts, and if they didn't care about what people had to say on their wall, then why would they even have a facebook?

 

[DrMoneyReturns]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

Just because BGW is a "family" park the rest of the year, why not bend the rules a little just for those few weeks?

Because of brand identity. The worst thing you can do to a brand is muddle it's image. Besides, there's ALREADY a more adult experience in the general area. Why on earth would you make a copy?

I don't agree with the common idea around here that each maze has to be themed for the area it's in. MyX and House of Vayne had nothing to do with Africa.

African mythology is alien to most Americans. Meanwhile, European mythology is the basis for almost all of our Halloween traditions. Because of that, BGT has little choice but to get away from the Africa theme for their HoS. BGW has the advantage of being able to stay within the park's overall theme while still providing good content.

Just because you have a definition of what is scary, doesn't mean I'm scared of it.

No doubt...so why try to make the parks' content more similar? Why not instead advocate that they REMAIN very very different. That way, more people have options?

And you really can't compare KD and BGW if you haven't experienced both.

I'm talking about the edgy-horror, R-rated approach vs. the family-friendly, classic monsters, PG-13 approach. The only impressions I have of KD's haunt are from their own advertising (COME AND FACE YOUR WORST NIGHTMARES...IF YOU'RE MAN ENOUGH!!!!) and from the park's advocates on here, who talk about haunted houses with hookers.

I have no problem with a more edgy, adult-oriented approach...just not at Busch Gardens. There's no reason.

 

[MMMU]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

first off please stop saying edgier that is annoying because that has NOTHING to do with what we are saying, also Tampa HoS is over an hour from HHN and they get a lot of the same visitors... BG doesn't want to be family friendly or they wouldn't have HOS they'd have Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween! they want to be scary maybe its not at the expense of their family visitors but its the truth! also KD has EXTREMELY high caliber houses but I agree they are no HHN I've been there once 2009 for Ripped from the Silver Screens, and just now look, THEY NAME HHN EVERY YEAR, thats. all me and Youhow want is a theme! a story to just enjoy, because HoSs website is miles ahead of KDs but KD still puts out a better story... Busch just says alright let's put werwolves here and goblins over there and witches in italy but never says THIS IS WHY THEY ARE HERE!!! I'm sorry if I'm. the only one that wants this but that imo would make Busch Better tenfold!

 

[DrMoneyReturns]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

We are really talking about two elements of Howl-O-Scream, though. The first is the theming and presentation. The second is the content.

As far as the theming/presentation improvement, I have never opposed that. None of us has. I have repeatedly said that if you want to improve HoS for what it is, that's great. Better theming elements, props, what have you. Who would oppose that? You want to help the story telling along? That's great, too. I just think the scariness level is fine right about where it's at currently. When you bring up the second part of it, the content part, I disagree that the park would be better if it were pushed from a fun/scary Halloween event to a more terrifying Horror event.

What's wrong with that?

 

[Youhow2]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

AHA! I figured out the problem...

We are arguing about the content on two levels, and each side is mistaking one for the other.


I dont think anyone is debating the THEMEING content. I do think we are debating the STORYTELLING content.

Hookers was just an example of an item used to tell a story inside of a house at KD. No one is saying Busch needs more hookers, it was an example of what type of techniques KD uses to tell stories inside their houses, and an element that is completely missing from Busch.

The role of the hookers in Club blood is just to convey that you are in a shady part of town. Along with the sets it works, it helps tell the story of how you drifted from shady-ville to the club and escaped the vampires... The house has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Hookers...

 

[DrMoneyReturns]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2011

If all you want is for better stories to be told in the houses, then I'm with you on that (for the most part...sometimes disorientation is it's own value).