Fiends (Das Festhaus)

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RE: Fiends (2011 Howl-O-Scream)

On a positive note, I will say that it's nice to see a well-themed production put in. As much as I like MSR, I think it's about time for a MSR:R, or something similar, you know? All objectionable content aside, the Frankenstein thing is a good take, and even the nurses *could* be a great touch.
 
RE: Fiends (2011 Howl-O-Scream)

I have no problem with the set or costumes. I'd like to them add some live musicians and can the sleazier interaction between the performers and I think it'd be a really good show.
 
RE: Fiends (2011 Howl-O-Scream)

If that's the case, I apologize I misunderstood you and for the implied language.

Your question is a good one, and requires a bit of explanation to understand my position. I'll start off by saying I'm 27 and as long as I remember I knew there was a big part of the holiday that was not for kids. I remember plenty of times I was denied by my parents because I was too young. The central theme, to me at least, of Halloween is fear. Whether it's "scaring" people into giving you candy, scaring people with jack-o-lanterns (at least these were the reasons given to me by my parents), or bringing a flashlight to scare the ghosts away. As I started got older and started getting into scary movies, it clicked in my mind that ghosts and vampires aren't really nice people. It was more fun to bring out my pet snake to scare kids while passing out candy than to go door to door hoping I got something good, I started liking Halloween more when actual fear was involved (despite all the crying children). When was finally able to go into houses and felt the rush of living in one of the horror movies I love so much, I realized /that's/ what Halloween is supposed to be.

Long story short, I do think Halloween is an adult holiday because dumbing down fear for children can only go so far. That's why I think non-child (I hate using the term "adult content" because it makes them seem like porn stars, which they're not) content, when not exposed to kids, is acceptable at a park during Halloween celebrations. While I'm all for a better quality of sexy, hiding them better, toning down the content during the day, ect is fine, don't remove them just because it's not the same level as Elmo.
 
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RE: Fiends (2011 Howl-O-Scream)

(I know it's long and what not, but I think there's an important distinction that, once understood, will root out a lot of the debate we keep having over 'appropriate' Halloween attractions at HoS.)

^
I think therein lies the heart of our ongoing debate. We just see Halloween differently. Just like it's strange to you that I keep trying to get them to resist notching it up, I think it's strange that someone would want them to. To me, Halloween is a holiday of tradition, not all that different from Christmas. While fear is the basis for that, I don't see the holiday as celebrating all things fearful. In my view of the holiday, fear is something you have a bit of fun with. You do things that are a bit creepy or spooky...things that might startle you or get your heart rate going, but ultimately, if you can't follow up every scream with a giggle, then it's out of the realm of Halloween fun and into something all together different. Along with fear of course, there's mischief (for lack of a better term), and along with that comes sin of other kinds, lust being a big part, of course. I would say we probably have a similar disagreement on those levels, as well, in terms of what Halloween promotes and doesn't promote. We're coming from two different places is all, I guess...

As this applies to Fiends, I would guess that this influences our different attitudes. Since I don't see Halloween as being an adults-only holiday, I think a place like BG (especially) having an adult-oriented event is overkill, and unnecessarily restrictive on a holiday that should be fun for pretty much everyone (obvious exceptions included). I think that you seeing Halloween as a primarily adult event would necessarily lead you to the conclusion that you seem to have reached: Busch Gardens dumbs down the true Halloween in order to cater to kids and the more the park moves away from that, the better off the event will be.

If I'm right about the above, then I think we understand each other, and that's fair enough. I still say that Busch Gardens, itself, is a place for families regardless of the holiday in question, but of course to you, a truly "Halloween" event that is entirely for the 12-and-up crowd can hardly be called a "Halloween" event at all, right or wrong?
 
RE: Fiends (2011 Howl-O-Scream)

With some exceptions, I agree with you in that we can at least see each other. I will say that there's nothing wrong in age-appropriate content for kids, but they just need to be clearly separated to make sure everybody is entertained. I like the set up they have this year where it's strongly urged children leave by 6 and even if they don't leave, the scary parts are clearly marked and there's always a way to get to where you need to go while avoiding scare zones. I think you put it great when you said, "if you can't follow up every scream with a giggle, then it's out of the realm of Halloween fun and into something all together different." The reason I see Halloween as the exception as an adult-oriented holiday is because there is such a difference in content with what might spook a 4 year old might and giggle and what might scare (terrify even?) a 14 year old might and giggle.

I'm not sure if you watched that one clip I suggested, but it has a great quote that I feel is relevant here, "By following the rules, you're guaranteed to make a mediocre product that no one can relate to." In order to make a product that will entertain 13+ year olds will enjoy related to Halloween, your going to have to make something that will give 4 year olds nightmares. If you try to make all attractions suitable for all ages, you're pretty much going to have to put Elmo or Dragons in the houses instead of the zombies and whatnot, which will bore the 13+ crowd and will cause them not to want to come. That's why I feel BG is doing a good job making attractions that aren't suitable for children, but making sure kids have enough to do with a reasonable time frame to do it safely.

As to how this pertains to the Nurses, there's a fairly substantial trend of suggestive outfits during Halloween. I think that BG was just picking up on this trend to cater to the 13+ crowd in a different way this year. They have been poorly executed in shows, but they could be improved.
 
RE: Fiends (2011 Howl-O-Scream)

Haberdasher1973 said:
DoctorMoneyMD said:
^First, I dispute the claim that there has been an "overwhelming" demand for a more adult HoS. I think there are some vocal advocates of this, sure, but I think that previous years' attendance indicates that a lot of people are happy with their PG-13 HoS.
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I was thinking the exact same thing; the most prevalent complaints were usually the lack/quality of scare actors and props...
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its only first week of howl o scream. attendance will get crazy like years before. yes my arguement has always been quality. deadline is at hhn level *almost* and im not complaining. 13 is pretty crazy too. i think the level of "adult" they added this year has been perfect. there has been a cry, especially on the fb wall to make it so adults can go and have fun too. considering fiends is the onlyy attraction people have problems with, and even i have a problem with the fact they would put something so sexual in festhaus i think this year in terms of content balance is perfect, but i do still have problems with themeing and props in a couple of the scarezones......
 
RE: Fiends (Howl-O-Scream 2011)

Maybe I'm just too low-brow, beings that I'm from the "Jersey Shore" and all, but I really don't get what everyone's problem with this show is for one simple reason: MSR is WAY raunchier. Have any of you actually watched that show? It's filthy. (Also, awesome.) There's humping, bumping, grinding, licking, butt-grabbing, shimmying, rubbing, hair-pulling, crotch-to-face and crotch-to-crowd action... all sorts of things. I mean, vampires in themselves have a very sexual-innuendo-vibe about them, always have. I saw MSR 5 or 6 times this weekend, once from one of the front tables, and everyone in my group agreed it was way more sexually charged than anything in Fiends. Those witches and vampires are showing more skin than any nurse. We had a half-naked man in leather humping our table and vulgarly licking his lips at us. Not that we're complaining, but let's be fair. People take their kids to that show and I haven't heard any complaints.

I didn't see any masturbatory gestures in the five times I saw Fiends, but that could be simply because I was looking in the wrong direction. I don't think that needs to be in the show, nor should any actor be making inappropriate gestures/comments to anyone who is CLEARLY not of age. I'm only commenting on what I saw personally. The nurses and actors I saw didn't approach children, they focused on adults during their forays into the crowd. I also didn't see any actor target a child when they were dragging people out to dance. Kids got up or were taken by their parents, yeah, and they danced around and had a great time, seemingly thinking how cool it was to dance with the ladies with the pink hair or the mummy/vampire/werewolf. Parents had no issue with their kids doing the Time Warp... which is hilarious to me.

I think a recurring problem is parents forgetting that 6 year-olds don't think like an adult. I heard little girls saying how they wanted pink hair and boys thinking the monsters were cool and scary. No kid said they wanted to get spanked from behind by a werewolf or "examined" by a nurse (at least not in my earshot). If you're a 12 or 13 year-old boy, you probably thought "BOOBIES!" I'll give you that. Like someone said, if the parents start preaching/screaming/claiming to have been "violated," the kids will take notice. If they don't, the kids will think the dancing monsters/ladies with pink hair/crazy scientist are cool.

My mother and I spent the time between the 3pm and 4:30pm shows on Friday talking about Fiends and its content. Her opinion is that there is nothing in that show that would be offensive to a child because to a child, it's a bunch of monsters and people in costumes dancing around, nothing more. She put it this way. If you don't make a big deal out of alcohol, your kids most likely won't think it's a big deal when they grow up. We use this example because my brother and I were both allowed a little glass of wine at home at holidays or a splash of the adult pina coladas, things like that, growing up, and I rarely have more than a drink or two (my all-time high was 4 in one day, at BG, funny enough) and my brother doesn't touch alcohol at all. Our friends with uptight parents? Yeah, they party hard. If you don't make a big deal out of gestures and outfits, such as the dancing and costumes in Fiends, chances are your kid will grow up either not seeing the big deal or knowing the difference between acting/fantasy and reality. So no one jumps on me for giving "parenting advice," this is an opinion.

As far as the whole "Halloween - for kids or adults?" debate/question, I'll give you this. Go into a costume store. Look at the costumes. All of them. The teen-adult ones are almost all sexual. The little girl costumes? They get more suggestive every year. (Heck, look at ballet and cheer outfits kids wear every day.) Don't complain about a show like this when you can walk into Wal-Mart (or turn on a tv, anything) and see the same thing, or worse. To quote the cinematic masterpiece Mean Girls: "Halloween is the one night a year when girls can dress like a total slut and no other girl can say anything about it."
 
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RE: Fiends (Howl-O-Scream 2011)

Comparing MSR revamped to Fiends is like comparing a Broadway show to an Elementary School play, IMO.

Again, everything you've mentioned about Monster Stomp is done in the context of the performance. I have no problem with "risque." Taking a prop hand and sticking it up someone's skirt or touching yourself with it isn't risque to me. It's just crude.

We haven't seen it yet with the kids. Haven't really made that decision yet. Quite frankly, if you're not sitting right up by the stage, most of the stuff I thought was objectionable was so quick and subtle I'm not sure the kids would even have picked up on it. (Actually, I'll bet the vast majority of people who casually watched the show didn't pick up on that stuff anyway.)

Again, you saw the show 5 times, what exactly did you find so compelling about it? I don't know, to me it was like listening to my '80's station on Sirius and watching dance squad caliber dancing. I honestly thought it dragged on and was pretty boring about halfway through.
 
RE: Fiends (Howl-O-Scream 2011)

Shafor said:
Again, everything you've mentioned about Monster Stomp is done in the context of the performance. I have no problem with "risque." Taking a prop hand and sticking it up someone's skirt or touching yourself with it isn't risque to me. It's just crude.
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This.

Also, lets not forget about the whole "This is the park's main eating location" part. There's no reason to go into MSR unless you want to see MSR. With Fiends, you can just be sitting there eating lunch and all the sudden the show starts.
 
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RE: Fiends (Howl-O-Scream 2011)

PageyMoon said:
MSR is WAY raunchier...There's humping, bumping, grinding, licking, butt-grabbing, shimmying, rubbing, hair-pulling, crotch-to-face and crotch-to-crowd action...
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I've seen MSR a few times in person, and it didn't appear all the sexual to me. There were some adult elements, but I don't remember seeing any of the crotch-to-face or crotch-to-crowd or humping, bumping, butt-grabbing stuff. Haven't seen it this year though, so...

Like someone said, if the parents start preaching/screaming/claiming to have been "violated," the kids will take notice...If you don't make a big deal out of alcohol, your kids most likely won't think it's a big deal when they grow up.
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I don't entirely disagree...but that's not always the case. If this always held true, it would be okay to let your kids be exposed to literally anything, so long as they were young enough to not know the difference. Part of upbringing is establishing in your children the idea of norms so they don't go out and be weirdos and get themselves into trouble. As far as drinking, my mother never drank, didn't approve of drinking, and to this day I don't drink a drop. On the flip side, I've got friends who've got heavy-drinking parents who let them drink "a little" as kids and now those kids are grown up drunks. I appreciate what you mean, but there is such a thing as inappropriate, and I think most people would find the kinds of content in the Fiends show inappropriate or young kids, especially (as others have said) in the setting it is presented in.

Go into a costume store. Look at the costumes. All of them. The teen-adult ones are almost all sexual. The little girl costumes? They get more suggestive every year. (Heck, look at ballet and cheer outfits kids wear every day.)...To quote the cinematic masterpiece Mean Girls: "Halloween is the one night a year when girls can dress like a total slut and no other girl can say anything about it."
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Some others have made this same point, and I'm not really sure what they mean by it. If I told you that all the video games in the preschool section featured weed smoking and chainsaw massacres, would you tell me that that had become the new acceptable? Most people lament the fact that little kids are being sexualized on a daily basis, and truthfully, for all the "sexy" costumes that are out there, I can count on one hand the number of times an underaged girl has come to my house trick-or-treating dressed in something that I found totally age-inappropriate.
 
RE: Fiends (Howl-O-Scream 2011)

Kids don't think like adults. That's the point a lot of adults are missing. Never mind the part where I said I was commenting on what I saw personally and agreed that certain things are not appropriate for any age, IMO.

What did I like about it? It's fun. Like I said, lowbrow fun, perhaps, but fun. I liked the dancing and the music. I liked the way the actors get into their roles. I don't like the guy who plays the vampire in the regular Festhaus show, but I really enjoy him in this. I think the "sexual" stuff is so campy, you can't even take it as real innuendo. The part on the balcony is really goofy. I think if you enjoy Rocky Horror, you'd like this show. If you think it's crude and disgusting, you won't. Fiends is by no means perfect, but it's fun. I wish they sang more, and like some have said, I think a live band would add to it.

If you see MSR and don't see any of the sexual content, you really must be blind. Sorry to be blunt, but it's a raunch-fest. Sit down front and watch those dancers, especially their facial expressions. I had a man shaking his crotch a foot from my face. You might say that you wouldn't see that stuff if you weren't in front. Well, the same can apply to Fiends, if you want to make that argument. There's no move in one they don't do in the other. Look at the skeletons, even. They're shaking their naughty bits at the audience and everyone laughs.

I appreciate what you're saying about the show being in the Festhaus, but they do post schedules and they do keep it open when the show isn't happening. Plan accordingly.
 
RE: Fiends (Howl-O-Scream 2011)

PageyMoon said:
I appreciate what you're saying about the show being in the Festhaus, but they do post schedules and they do keep it open when the show isn't happening. Plan accordingly.
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One can't plan when excessive heat or pouring rain happens, though, both of which are occasions when I have sought refuge there...

EDIT: Not to mention the "before six o'clock" decree from the park that one may consider when planning...
 
RE: Fiends (Howl-O-Scream 2011)

Sorry, but I think you are grossly overstating the sexual content in MSR and grossly understating it in Feinds in order to make your point. I mean, just look at the difference in public reaction to the two shows.

But here's the bottom line: I am a parent. I've never, ever, ever, seen something in a show at BGW that's given me a little pause about whether or not it would make me uncomfortable to watch with my kids, until some of things I saw in Feinds.


BTW, Danielle, did you get the email about this Friday? Are you doing a THIRD weekend in a row? ;) We've been trying to piecemeal babysitting together all afternoon.
 
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RE: Fiends (Howl-O-Scream 2011)

Shafor said:
Sorry, but I think you are grossly overstating the sexual content in MSR and grossly understating it in Feinds in order to make your point. I mean, just look at the difference in public reaction to the two shows.

But here's the bottom line: I am a parent. I've never, ever, ever, seen something in a show at BGW that's given me a little pause about whether or not it would make me uncomfortable to watch with my kids, until some of things I saw in Feinds.


BTW, Danielle, did you get the email about this Friday? Are you doing a THIRD weekend in a row? ;) We've been trying to piecemeal babysitting together all afternoon.
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I really don't think I am. That said, I repeat again that I didn't see some of the things you saw, and I'm just speaking about what I did see. I sat back farther from the stage in the Festhaus and like to sit close at MSR. I saw nurses poppin' and lockin' it in front of monsters at the Festhaus and vampires licking their lady friends from the knee up in MSR. And don't get me wrong, I don't have an issue with what I saw in either show, I'm just saying if one is guilty, so is the other.

I doubt I can go. Work is for... people who... oh, it just stinks. :dodgy:
 
RE: Fiends (Howl-O-Scream 2011)

I think the point in having any show at a theme park is to hear live singing and see live dancing. They got the dancing right, and the nurses don't bother me. However, looking at Fiends from an entertaining standpoint, it doesn't do it for me. The only true talent came from the nurses dance skill (which was still not super amazing)

I would LOVE to see the return of Festhaus Frightnight. It had a storyline, wonderful performers, and rightfully showcased the talent they had.
 
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RE: Fiends (Howl-O-Scream 2011)

Well, as far as actual entertainment of the show, I'm not denying that there could be SO many things done to make it even better. Do I think it's "bad" now though? Obviously, no (if you've read my other responses).

Then again (and I think this is important in how people view a show in general)- I'm not a "show" person. Including Christmastown+HOS, I've seen less than 10 shows at BGW in the past 10 years (not including the Globe Theatre- I loved Pirates/haunts and went to Lighthouse from time to time) 5 of those shows were in the past 3 years at HOS/CT. I'm also much more of vocals over live music/dancing person (that is, I find no change in entertainment if the dance moves are as intricate as Miracles or as basic as some of the Fiends moves. Vocals on the other hand guide the show to me.)

After watching the version from Tampa, I found it to be MUCH better, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s5x5H3PMH8
 
RE: Fiends (Howl-O-Scream 2011)

^I was just about to post that video.

I thought Tampa's version was very good. It reminds me somewhat of Fangs at Kings Dominion last year... if Fangs were on steroids. Unfortunatly, I dont think BGW would ever go to that extreme. I prefer up-charge Halloween events for this reason.
 
RE: Fiends (Howl-O-Scream 2011)

LMFAO at the DJ ghoul from 11:23-12:59 in the tampa version.


Problem with the festhaus for that kind of show that tampa has, not only does it have a remarkably high budget (I've been removed from stage magic for some time, but I estimate all the tricks in the show cost in upwards of 10 thousand dollars They have a fairly large, onesided stage. Only so much you can do with a 360 degree view show.
 
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