Entwined: Tales of Good & Grimm

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RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

Let's set aside the teens-vs-kids argument and look at a very prevalent but oft overlooked group for a moment: adults like The Soaring Eagles, a friendship club for season-pass-holders 55 years and older...

Sure, some may ride coasters and thrill rides... but for those with medical conditions, and everybody knows SOMEONE (regardless of age), let's take away the rides that these folks may be leery of: you're pretty much left with the sky ride, river cruise, railway and the carousel. Good entertainment is a blessing for these people. I get the impression that this doesn't apply to most of the people who have been weighing in so far, but that doesn't make it any less of an issue.

I, for one, am not a rides person - I've said it before. Generally, I'm not a Cedar Fair or Six Flags person, either... but Busch Gardens has traditionally had something for everyone, including myself. For me, Busch Gardens has always meant good food and good entertainment in a gorgeous old-world-inspired setting, be it the regular season or a special event like HOS or CT.

I'm doing my best to reserve judgement on Entwined until I see it in person - as a theatre person, I'll be the first to say that live shows don't usually translate well when filmed. However, what I have seen in photos and on youtube concerns me and, when added to some other bizarre, recent offerings like Mix it Up and Gloria, I am forced to question the judgement and taste level of Scott Gasparich and his team. He seems to rely on spectacle when a piece lacks substance.

I'm not expecting Broadway, but Busch set a bar and I hope they live up to it again. That's just my two cents.
 
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RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

If there's any story at all to it, it would be better than "This is Oktoberfest". Sorry old-worlders (I just coined that). I can't remember anytime that I actually went to the Festhaus to watch that show. Now, to address the issue of child friendly during the year, then Fiends, I suggest gradually planting more and more nurses into the show throughout the summer.
 
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RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

Haberdasher1973 said:
Let's set aside the teens-vs-kids argument and look at a very prevalent but oft overlooked group for a moment: adults like The Soaring Eagles, a friendship club for season-pass-holders 55 years and older...

Sure, some may ride coasters and thrill rides... but for those with medical conditions, and everybody knows SOMEONE (regardless of age), let's take away the rides that these folks may be leery of: you're pretty much left with the sky ride, river cruise, railway and the carousel. Good entertainment is a blessing for these people. I get the impression that this doesn't apply to most of the people who have been weighing in so far, but that doesn't make it any less of an issue.

I, for one, am not a rides person - I've said it before. Generally, I'm not a Cedar Fair or Six Flags person, either... but Busch Gardens has traditionally had something for everyone, including myself. For me, Busch Gardens has always meant good food and good entertainment in a gorgeous old-world-inspired setting, be it the regular season or a special event like HOS or CT.

I'm doing my best to reserve judgement on Entwined until I see it in person - as a theatre person, I'll be the first to say that live shows don't usually translate well when filmed. However, what I have seen in photos and on youtube concerns me and, when added to some other bizarre, recent offerings like Mix it Up and Gloria, I am forced to question the judgement and taste level of Scott Gasparich and his team. He seems to rely on spectacle when a piece lacks substance.

I'm not expecting Broadway, but Busch set a bar and I hope they live up to it again. That's just my two cents.
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Well said. I will say that I'm very close (too close @_@ ) to 'Soaring Eagle' status. Sigh. Enjoy life when you're young...that's all I have to say about that.

On the flip side, I am partially disabled...but I'm able to ride all the rides (except Alpengeist, which whips my neck at that one brake spot about 1/2 way through the ride). The boat ride is a stretch. I wrote BGW years ago about putting one of those 'hill-climbing trains' (funiculars) on the side of the boats where the steep hill is located (going down from the Land of the Dragons), so that more people will be willing to use that way to not only ride the boats, but also to funnel more traffic and provide a (HUGE) shortcut from Germany to Scotland. It would also fit in with the German theme.

I adore roller-coasters, and my kids (well at least my boy) loves them, too. I used to be in a hard rock band in the late '80s, so I was a kid once, too :p I like to be entertained as well as the next guy. However, I'd hate to see BGW turn into a park that panders to one specific age bracket (I worked for Warner Bros. and witnessed Six Flags Great Adventure go down when they were doing that). BGW always had something special to it: IT NEVER TRIED TO BE LIKE ANY OTHER THEME PARK. And if they did, I wasn't aware of it. I have been to WDW 3 times. And I've always told my folks that you CANNOT compare the two, because they are two different animals. Now you tell me how they can pull attendance like they have done for the past decade...yet they've STILL not adopted the opportunity to be 'Disney-Lite'?????? It's because they ARE different. Sadly, that 'are' is becoming a 'were'. I was in the theater once, too. Also in stage band, marching band, orchestra, etc. etc. I've witnessed what Haberdasher1973 is saying about recent shows. 3 words come to mind: "are they serious"??? I'd list them, but the list is getting pretty long. Live-music performers are becoming a thing of the past. The street-walkers are buried. The 'human element' that made a walker-by feel special is now replaced by digital tracks and cheap theatrics. Why? Probably to save a buck, is my guess. But fans don't forget things too quickly. I remember the petting zoo...and I STILL miss it. Elmos Land almost made me ill when I heard it was being added. The good thing is that it can't really be seen nor heard too much from England. Since it was unused space and off-the-beaten-path, I don't mind it. No Elmo and Grover wandering the park. LOL

As far as teen vs. adult: bravo to the kid who took the time to write that post a few posts up in this thread. Definitely an intelligent kid. Unfortunately, he/she represents...what?...1 percent of the teen market who is interested in 'theater'? The rest are pretty much only interested in the latest bands...AND their iPhone/iPad. Also Ramp Jam and roller coasters (by all means). I doubt you'd be able to make a modern-day teen sit through any of the park shows, though. They'd be texting in about 1 minute (I built in a 1 minute grace period to that statistic, btw :p ). lol! Quite frankly, I doubt any modern-day teen would have survived Draken Fire! ROFL Ok...I'm just kidding!! ;)

What made Busch special (since they were always so different than Disney)? They did their OWN thing. They created realistic backdrops...towns...villages...shows. And they made the coasters fit in with those themes. They complimented each other. Nothing was loud, noisy, gaudy, over-the-top. Real people. Real actors. Real musicians. I've watched Williamsburg grow from a decent tourist destination...to a place that takes me a couple extra hours to get to, now! It's amazing. Yet Busch has been doing much of what they always did. Their own thing. Different. It would seem that's what people want: different. "Americas most beautiful theme park".

Whoever this new guy is who is changing the shows and backdrops needs to be fired. Sorry folks. Personal opinion and all that. And please...folks...I injected alot of humor in this post. Please don't take it all seriously, kay? Thank ye, kindly ;)

An afterthought: Universal and Disney can pull off what they do because they have movies they base their parks on. Mummy. Spider-Man. Little Mermaid. Harry Potter. Busch has: ?
 
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RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

I actually think it's kind of imaginative, I also think it's going to come off better than Gloria.

I don't think it's going to "ruin" the park. This new direction of Entertainment (yes, the Entertainment department has some say into these) has also brought some of the best haunted houses I've been to, the most themed coaster and Sea World park has ever had (including the arguably best trains ever), and a rehab of some of the themed rides, like DarKastle.

Sure, the new show isn't polka, and to be honest, I'll miss that. Let's be honest though, skateboards, princesses, Nick starlets, Christian rock, ect are really popular and bring in guests. You can't really blame the park for choosing Disney Princesses over polka if they think the princesses are going to bring in more money.

That being said, we should wait until we all see the show before predicting the downfall of the park.
 
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RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

I can understand moving to a more modern show. It would be nice to see a small polka band and dancers outside in Oktoberfest. Kind of a scaled down version of the old show.
 
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

So here's a question for those of you who want a more "old country" style of show, what would you think of the following suggestions?

1) No costumed charecters/fur suits. The wolf and three bears would be actors in costumes like the rest of the cast. Themed to be an obvious bear/wolf.

2) Have the music arranged to polka instead of orchestra. have more accordians, claranets, tubas, ext.
 
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

I'm all for number 1 but number 2 would be too much...
 
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

Live-music performers are becoming a thing of the past. The street-walkers are buried. The 'human element' that made a walker-by feel special is now replaced by digital tracks and cheap theatrics.
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The park re-introduced live roaming bands last year as part of the Oktoberfest expansion. The stages/maypole are still there, so they'll probably be returning during the summer.

You could also call Illuminights a bunch of street shows, geared towards kids or not (I happened to like the acrobats/body benders a lot - I don't happen to like the decorations though, the rainbows and cuckoo clocks should go).

They created realistic backdrops...towns...villages...shows. And they made the coasters fit in with those themes. They complimented each other. Nothing was loud, noisy, gaudy, over-the-top.
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Like Disney? I don't recall Frontierland being loud and gaudy :p

I understand that Busch and Disney are in different leagues money and size-wise, but they're still theme parks at heart trying to tell a story through their rides/attractions. I'm sure if you give Busch a Disney sized budget, you'll see similar elements but with Busch aiming towards bigger coasters.

Granted I don't like some of the changes the park went through in the past. Le Mans was NOT a good trade off for Griffon, Europe in the Air wasn't the best decision the park made, and I could care less for dining with characters. I'm still willing to give the park a chance before running it into the ground.

The funicular is actually a great idea, although you'd have to add one on both sides of the river in order to be fully effective.

Back to the show, I'm gonna try to check it out this weekend to see what the fuss is all about.

1) No costumed charecters/fur suits. The wolf and three bears would be actors in costumes like the rest of the cast. Themed to be an obvious bear/wolf.

2) Have the music arranged to polka instead of orchestra. have more accordians, claranets, tubas, ext.
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Number 1 is a must. The fur suits that I've seen look cheesy. As for 2, I need to hear what the current music selection is before I judge.
 
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RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

The park's fate can go either up or down and it seems like people want it to go down. Have faith in the park, yes there are some decisions the park makes that are terrible, but we all make terrible decisions some times. My point is simply, the park could be heading in a better direction that you think, give it another 5 or so years. Don't expect the park to fall to ruins in one day.

I honestly think the park is doing good, the old country is way too outdated to be done and the park needs to start modernizing things. Such as the use of Dyson hand dryers and Coke Freestyle Machines, new rides, updated bathrooms, and yes shows. Entwined is not a bad thing, nothing ever is a bad thing. Entwined just has a different target audience, if you don' agree with that I am sorry, but the park is trying to survive and please people at the same time. That is a hard thing to do. Almost like making Howl-o-Scream kidsiderate and adult themed at the same time.
 
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

biggest stage they have at this point... plus 360 views... among other things
 
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RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

Party Rocker said:
...the old country is way too outdated to be done and the park needs to start modernizing things.
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Really? Because Tampa's been reinforcing their African theme (also established in the 1970s) with their additions over the last few years, and their revenue & attendance were both up for 2011; of all the SeaWorld parks, BG Williamsburg was the only one to go down in 2011.

EPCOT's Germany pavillion must always be packed because it's oudtated...

Look: I have no problem with keeping shows fresh, but there are multiple venues in that park, built for live performances, that are sitting being used for other things: Castle O'Sullivan, The Globe Theatre, The Royal Palace (for daily use), Land of the Dragons - freshen THEM up first. Obviously not all of you enjoy or "get" This is Oktoberfest, but if they really want an Oktoberfest atmosphere in that part of the park, don't change the authentic Oktoberfest beer hall - an over-the-top "family" show could go one of many other places...

EDIT: Photo added; Oktoberfest in Munich - look familiar?
Oktoberfest-Munich-26-375x500%20copy.gif
 
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RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

Haberdasher1973 said:
Because Tampa's been reinforcing their African theme (also established in the 1970s) with their additions over the last few years, and their revenue & attendance were both up for 2011; of all the SeaWorld parks, BG Williamsburg was the only one to go down in 2011.
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So if BGW's 2012 attendance blows away 2011's (which it will), can we declare the changes to the Festhaus a success? :p
 
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RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

So if BGW's 2012 attendance blows away 2011's (which it will), can we declare the changes to the Festhaus a success? :p
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LOL Shafor. I would suggest a wager, if I were a betting man ;)

Thanks for the pic, Haberdasher. I have alot of pics of the real Oktoberfest from *cough*another forum*cough* but I don't have permish to post them elsewhere. However, they are amazingly similar in look/feel/style/general authenticity to the Festhaus. And you beat me to posting that there are SO many other areas of the park that could use a facelift, that it's frankly mind-boggling that they chose the Festhaus (which I usually find pretty full, and many times hard to find a seat that isn't all the way in the back) to do a major rehab/retheme/etc.!

To have Oktoberfest outside in the sweltering VA summer heat does NOT sound attractive nor appealing to me. Nor does it sound entertaining in the freezing cold in winter. I enjoyed watching the show in the chilly coolness of the Festhaus in the summer, tyvm. Sometimes we'd sit there for at least an hour just to regain our strength and take in the coolness and atmosphere. And even watching the Christmas show in the winter was a welcome change of pace when the Festhaus pumps out copious amounts of nice warm heat ;)

They could seriously do a GREAT deal better with the Italy section back where the Apollos Chariot ride is. I would start there if I were to pick anyplace in the park. Festhaus I really wouldn't even consider if I were to choose places that need a serious facelift. Heck...don't they have tons of open land to use to construct new themes and different experiences on?? But to each their own, I guess.
 
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RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

Haberdasher1973 said:
Really? Because Tampa's been reinforcing their African theme (also established in the 1970s) with their additions over the last few years, and their revenue & attendance were both up for 2011; of all the SeaWorld parks, BG Williamsburg was the only one to go down in 2011.
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Obviously, their attendance was up last year. Cheetah Hunt. Plus BGW didn't have anything new last year until late August. I imagine we'll be seeing record numbers this upcoming year. At least back to 2007 style numbers from when Griffon opened.

I'd also definitely love to see them put some effort into RPT, what a waste of space right now.
 
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RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

Considering the weather was probably a big factor in why last year attendance was down, as long as it's not either 100 degrees or raining the whole summer attendance should be better.
 
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

Youhow2 said:
Why would you put a show like that in the main dining hall? I think that's most everyone's point...
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Let me ask you this....If Entwinded questionable for the Festhuas, wouldn't Fiends also be questionable??
I felt Fiends was inappropriate, not just in content, but also through the excessive use of that god aweful synthetic fog.

I will miss "This is Octoberfest", but I look forward to the new and I am willing to give Entwined a chance.
On a side note: I like the Cuckoo Clock, it's fun and whimsical.
 
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RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)

Before everyone jumps on Celticdog, he has a good point. Neither show fits the theme of the building. Neither show seems aimed at the whole family like This is Oktoberfest or Celtic Fyre. They actually have quite a bit in common- they're just on opposite extremes of the spectrum.
 
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