Curse of DarKastle

[Zimmy]

Oh, I know exactly how well it will go over...

Something something... It was my favorite... Something something better when... something something AB... something something I have been a pass member since... something something... spending money on... something something... won't get over... something something... something something...

 

[snowman6996]

Couldn't they turn it into a toy story mania type of shooting dark ride. There is a ton of room for a large layout.

 

[warfelg]

Ok, I'm going to warn ahead that this is going to be a long post.

I can really understand tradition-ites that will complain about taking out a beloved ride, how this is a sad day for the park, yada yada yada. Yea it kinda is. One of the few attractions of this style outside the Big 2, a great storyline, great experience, great effects. A struggling park really shouldn't be looking to take things out.

But, it is an expensive ride to operate daily. So they need to find a way to cut back on the spending anyways, so a low ridership high cost ride is usually one of the first things to go. I don't know whats going on inside the walls of the main office, but I really hope someone brought up just new projectors that are more reliable, new effects that can do more with less, and altering some of the effects.

What made that upgrade for BGW hard though is the fact that UO has seemingly gone the 'next step' when they did the Harry Potter rides (will be interesting if they keep doing even more than that). DW doesn't have many of that style, but what they have they do so well. So if BGW did a Spider-man style update (improve from SD to 1080p; improve the effects; repaint interior); I wonder id the non-member/pass publid coming to BGW would have cared.

If they got to that people wouldn't have cared that are just general public goers; then updating would be a no go waste of time and money. And the ride is expensive. So you land on it's not worth it to keep the ride.

Now here's my things, if they decided it's not worth it, and they decide to gut the building; then give me something in its place. If they maintain this as an 'event space' I'll be massively disappointed in the park because that corner of Oktoberfest is a 'dead zone' in effect. You got a huge area in a major corner of the park that has no pull. There's little to slow down the people in that area other than money sucking games.

So.....long post short:
My feeling on DK coming out really depends on 'what's next'. If 'what's next' is just a big empty warehouse for events and storage....this is a huge huge mistake by BGW. You can find places to put an event space or close down another ride to build it (*cough*romanrapids*cough*).

But if "what's next" is to use the building to create a "Lugwigs Revenge" and put another ride into the building, and they are playing this close to the vest, and they want us to be surprised, then I am all for this. Whether that be an indoor coaster (Revenge of the Mummy or LaffTrak style) or a shooting style ride (like Justice League or Toy Story Mania) or even just something unexpected, then I'm for this because we shouldn't let preservation get in the way of progress with it comes to parks and finding ways to improve (within reason of course).

 

[sereniv]

I know I shouldn't have expected them to keep the building sitting with all the scenery untouched hoping they would re-open it modernized and scarier than before....

the removal of the wolf statues was a bad omen!!!!!!

 

[CastleOSullivan]

Well, that’s a bummer. I was kind of hoping that this ride or something similar would return after sitting for a while.  I don’t know how much it would cost BGW to build a new track, but as long as BGW has the ride vehicles, I would expect the park to use or retrofit them for something else. That said, I guess it is possible that we may see another attraction like this sometime in the future with a different track layout.

I can understand the need for the track removal, however, if they are only going to use the building for walkthrough attractions. The track was a constant trip hazard during Howl-O-Scream and Christmas Town, and they can’t afford such. I am a little bit more surprised by the demolition of "scenic walls."

The park primarily built FrostBite around the existing scenery in DarKastle. Are they going to create original scenic pieces or are they keeping the sets that were most important to the look and feel of FrostBite? It’s a shame to imagine all of these set pieces destroyed when they could repurpose them for Howl-O-Scream.

FrostBite was unique for showing guests the sets at their full sizes, all on foot.  That was a different experience from seeing it at 6 to 8 feet in the air. I hope they don’t scrap all of the scenery as they did with the village on The Big Bad Wolf. That would be such a waste.

Photos from costruction in 2004-2005:
No longer like this...

...but more like this. (except just interior)

Hopefully they will preserve some pieces like this.

 

[sereniv]

off topic question....is there ANY way that the animation used for the ride could be found and used in VR?

 

[Zimmy]

you know Catapult has not been moved in a few years....

I seriously would LOVE to see a series of small flats like Catapult placed inside the space. I think dead black flats are AMAZING! I bet you could get 2 medium or 3 small flats in there easily. Minimal personnel to operate them and a good way to move people off path year round.
That brings up another advantage, more things for X-Mas to get people off paths!

 

[warfelg]

you know Catapult has not been moved in a few years....

I seriously would LOVE to see a series of small flats like Catapult placed inside the space.  I think dead black flats are AMAZING!  I bet you could get 2 medium or 3 small flats in there easily.  Minimal personnel to operate them and a good way to move people off path year round.
That brings up another advantage, more things for X-Mas to get people off paths!

I would be highly disappointed if this was the case. This is better served elsewhere but if you want some of those flats to run in winter, why not put a temporary tent over them with heaters? Creating more holes in the park moving things into that building means having to spend for multiple rides, building out the pads, having multiple entrances and exits built into the DK building.

Your usually one to bring up the financials, but this could end up a very expensive proposition!

 

[Nicole]

I think Zimmy was harkening back to when the catapult was inside the COS building in Hastings. It was very cool to ride it in the dark. I have been on other indoor flats that run without lights, and it is certainly a better experience.

My point is that I don’t think he really cares about their being in a heated building. Rather, I believe he mentioned CT as a positive externality.

 

[warfelg]

I think Zimmy was harkening back to when the catapult was inside the COS building in Hastings.  It was very cool to ride it in the dark.  I have been on other indoor flats that run without lights, and it is certainly a better experience.

My point is that I don’t think he really cares about their being in a heated building.  Rather, I believe he mentioned CT as a positive externality.

Ah, didn't know that was a thing at one time. My bad.

If they wanted to do something like that, I think I would prefer them to build a separate building to do that rather than use the DK building.

 

[Zimmy]

Ah, didn't know that was a thing at one time.  My bad.

If they wanted to do something like that, I think I would prefer them to build a separate building to do that rather than use the DK building.

I think what I was suggesting is that it would be a fairly inexpensive way to bring life to the empty building that is being gutted. Better than standing but empty. Further small or medium flats would be fairly inexpensive to remove if the time came when they could use the space for something grander, it would not be difficult to remove the units. Frankly I wonder if any of the old flats from Festa are in storage somewhere.

The point I make is that all the wishing in the world will not bring DarKastle back, and it seems unlikely that something of it caliber, when built, is in the future.

 

[UncleDuncan]

The point I make is that all the wishing in the world will not bring DarKastle back, and it seems unlikely that something of it caliber, when built, is in the future.

^^^^ This is the money shot ^^^^

I preface the following by saying, I'm not trying to throw salt on an open wound. I know some of you loved this ride. But I just don't get it. I like(d) DarKastle. It was an ok-to-good ride that slowly was neutered and left to rot. I get that it was fairly groundbreaking upon install, but speaking candidly, I never was crazy about it when I started riding it (8, 9 years ago?) and I kind of don't give a shit that it's gone now.

I'm more upset that there are literally no plans announced to make good on prime faux-Deutsche real estate. And, whether you loved, hated, or feel indifferent toward DarKarstle, this current non-state should be a real eye-opener to what's going on at SEAS. If you're not worried, you should be.

 

[Zimmy]

I get that it was fairly groundbreaking upon install, but speaking candidly, I never was crazy about it when I started riding it (8, 9 years ago?) and I kind of don't give a shit that it's gone now.

I'm more upset that there are literally no plans announced to make good on prime faux-Deutsche real estate. And, whether you loved, hated, or feel indifferent toward DarKarstle, this current non-state should be a real eye-opener to what's going on at SEAS. If you're not worried, you should be.

THIS!

Personal opinion and potentially heresy below.

It seems that with every ride's demise there are people who suddenly feel heart broken and in distress regardless of how good or bad the ride was.

After the first time I rode DK I was bored with it. Sure it was interesting once, but after that it was just repetitive. The only reason I ever rode it was because my group used to go on with just about every trip. It became a thing to make fun of the damned thing.

To me, as UncleDuncan pointed out, the real crime here is a rather ornate empty building. The real problem is just like Gwazi and some others at Tampa, it seems to be too expensive to keep operating and too costly to re-use at this juncture.

We, as a community see to get rose tinted glasses about removed items. This is, of course natural. What is a bit off is the passion for which we express our feelings. Consider how distraught people got after the removal of Shockwave. Now of course ride preference is a very personal thing. I know, for example that I am in the minority when it come to an indifference to simulators and Spiderman like rides. But I wonder if, like Shockwave the community is being a bit overstated.

 

[James]

So I was thinking about something and thought I'd throw this out there. With this ride only being open for 13 years and the money that was spent on it, would you consider DK a success or bust?

On one hand it was a very popular attraction when it first opened and still had decent ridership for years afterwards.

But on the other it was very costly to maintain, was very expensive upfront, and was outlived by many other rides of the same type that were built before it.

So success or bust?

 

[UncleDuncan]

So success or bust?

I don't think it's that simple to frame in a binary way. From my perspective, DarKastle should have NEVER been built in a regional park and yet it's mere existence in a regional park is why it was lauded and thought of so highly. So I don't know. It's both a success and a failure, or maybe it's neither and something else all together.

I will say watching DarKastle crumble over the years highlights how hard themed/dark attractions are to sell and maintain (and this is coming from a guy who doesn't really put too much stock into themes). For better or worse, it'll make you appreciate how and what Disney and Universal do day in and day out. It's crazy.

Not to get too off topic, but it does seem to me BGW falls apart when it comes to maintaining these kinds of experiences. EITA was a shitshow from it's first launch. DK was a slow burn to failure. Verbolten, from what people have been saying, has been wilting in a similar fashion. Yet Apollo's Chariot? Griffon? Nessie? Still killing it after all these years. Maybe BGW should draw inspiration from itself and get back to what they're good at: building world class rollercoasters. Stop trying to catch the Mouse. What's the point of building a competitive attraction if you're not going to maintain it?

 

[Franco]

THIS!

Personal opinion and potentially heresy below.

It seems that with every ride's demise there are people who suddenly feel heart broken and in distress regardless of how good or bad the ride was.

After the first time I rode DK I was bored with it.  Sure it was interesting once, but after that it was just repetitive.  The only reason I ever rode it was because my group used to go on with just about every trip.  It became a thing to make fun of the damned thing.

To me, as UncleDuncan pointed out, the real crime here is a rather ornate empty building.

I was never the biggest fan of CoDK, but the biggest thing for me about its removal is what it represents. For one, it's symbolic of the end of an era. The construction of DarKastle was a bold move for a regional theme park to attempt to replicate the new generation Disney and Universal style ride. Obviously they could not do it on the same budget, and it was definitely not on the same level as some of those A-list attractions, but it was a considerably unique ride as far as the seasonal theme park was concerned. Now, not only is it gone, but it sits empty and without any plan for replacement. As you say, it is a rather ornate empty building, and it is very well themed, and it sits as a reminder of days gone by. It could easily be used for an incredible attraction or show or any number of things, but instead it sits vacant. It's a symbol of a new era, one in which the park brings in clones of Six Flags roller coasters instead of pushing the envelope with original new attractions. Not only is DarKastle gone, but something greater that the park used to be is gone too. It's been gone for a few years, but an empty DarKastle is just a brutal visual reminder.

 

[Zimmy]

...Not to get too off topic, but it does seem to me BGW falls apart when it comes to maintaining these kinds of experiences. EITA was a shitshow from it's first launch. DK was a slow burn to failure. Verbolten, from what people have been saying, has been wilting in a similar fashion. Yet Apollo's Chariot? Griffon? Nessie? Still killing it after all these years. Maybe BGW should draw inspiration from itself and get back to what they're good at: building world class rollercoasters. Stop trying to catch the Mouse. What's the point of building a competitive attraction if you're not going to maintain it?

Incidentally, so far as I can tell, BfE is also an epic fail. (just my opinion)

 

[Lord Robert]

Maybe BGW should draw inspiration from itself and get back to what they're good at: building world class rollercoasters.

You do realize that a regional theme park needs more than just "world class roller coasters" to survive in such a competing industry. Right?

 

[Thomas]

Like Cedar Point.

 

[Lord Robert]

I don't think that's entirely fair to compare to the two. Those two parks couldn't be anymore different from each other that the comparison doesn't make sense to me. But you may correct me on that if I'm wrong.