well, I guess the difference would be is the “incredibly small %” being treated unfairly or not? Facts matter, some small groups are treated unfairly and some are just karens. How do you tell the different? You know it when you see it; like obscenity.
COVID-19’s Impacts on BGW
- Thread starter WDWRLD
- Start date
well, I guess the difference would be is the “incredibly small %” being treated unfairly or not? Facts matter, some small groups are treated unfairly and some are just karens. How do you tell the different? You know it when you see it; like obscenity.
Even if BGW made the vaccine a requirement, it’s super easy to fake a card. I got both vaccines, and my card is just written in pen with the lot number. Some one doesn’t want the vaccine( they shouldn’t have to if they don’t want to) could easy to get some card stock, a family members card and just white it out. My grandmother was thinking about doing this. If someone doesn’t want it, they will find a way around.
So, the park shouldn't attempt to implement any system that could be defeated?
When did I ever say that? I just said that I don’t agree with vacc reqs and that if it’s just “show us the cdc card” that’s easy to go around. Plus if you’ve gotta bring that card and it’s your only certification, say goodbye to riding Pompeii or le scoot or rapids
The number of people willing to commit the multiple federal crimes required to obtain and present a fake vaccine card just to enter a theoretical vaccine-restricted Busch Gardens Williamsburg is incredibly small. Creating policy to thwart such a miniscule group is a frivolous endeavor, particularly when essentially everyone else in the park would be protected from them since everyone else would be vaccinated.
Also, people take non-water-safe items to parks constantly. BGW's passes (unless you pay to upgrade them) aren't water-safe. Lockers, ziplock bags, non-riders—there are a million and one widely used methods to remedy that slight and rare inconvenience.
If BGW wanted to implement something like this, I believe that vaccine cards are a perfectly reasonable way to approach such a policy (as demonstrated by California). It seems to me that the bigger barrier to something like this right now is the lack of available vaccines for kids.
Last edited:
Something something... Mobley's model of job satisfaction and turn over... something something
This was recently discussed in connection with conventions that have vaccine card requirements to attend. Of course people came out within minutes of the announcement posting links to the template of the vaccine card.
Conventions supposedly will run their attendee lists against the vaccination database though, so having a fake card will not help you at all in that case. (and likely get you banned from the event, if not charged for forging the card)
I do not know how long such a check would take, but I assume with requiring online reservations it would be possible to do the same at theme parks.
Considering how the new style of vaccine works (mRNA; Pfizer / Moderna) I think requiring vaccines in any capacity, not just at theme parks, is both fundamentally wrong (as people should have that choice) and unnecessary. Coming from someone who jumped at the bit to get vaccinated as soon as possible.
These vaccines make people extremely efficient at fighting the virus, to the point where the extreme majority of people who have experienced adverse affects of the virus after being fully vaccinated are people with severe underlying health issues (I remember reading some studies but can't remember where they are, it broke things down by the percent of people with immunodeficiencies, deteriorated lungs, etc.). Assuming vaccines at some point may be required, you also assume that everyone has had their fair chance at getting a vaccine. At that rate, everyone who wanted one would get one, and would have the ability to protect themselves from having a rough go at it with COVID. Hence the unnecessary bit. Past that, we have never set a precedent for requiring vaccines in public environments run by private companies, so I think it would be wrong to start that now in an already divisive time, when anything strong-armish will become super political.
If the end goal is to encourage more people to get the vaccine, I don't think punishing those who haven't gotten it by restricting their access to things is a good go at it. Some people don't feel as though they need or want the vaccine, and that's fine, you do you. It would be FAR more effective if governments worked with local business to create incentives for people who have gotten fully vaccinated, perhaps BGW having fully vaccinated days kinda like the members only days: "Come enjoy the park the way you used to, no masks outside! Yada yada yada" or something like that. I know that idea has holes in it, but positive reinforcement is always more effective than punishment, so simply not allowing people who aren't vaccinated in would just cause more issues for an already distrustful demographic of Americans.
These vaccines make people extremely efficient at fighting the virus, to the point where the extreme majority of people who have experienced adverse affects of the virus after being fully vaccinated are people with severe underlying health issues (I remember reading some studies but can't remember where they are, it broke things down by the percent of people with immunodeficiencies, deteriorated lungs, etc.). Assuming vaccines at some point may be required, you also assume that everyone has had their fair chance at getting a vaccine. At that rate, everyone who wanted one would get one, and would have the ability to protect themselves from having a rough go at it with COVID. Hence the unnecessary bit. Past that, we have never set a precedent for requiring vaccines in public environments run by private companies, so I think it would be wrong to start that now in an already divisive time, when anything strong-armish will become super political.
If the end goal is to encourage more people to get the vaccine, I don't think punishing those who haven't gotten it by restricting their access to things is a good go at it. Some people don't feel as though they need or want the vaccine, and that's fine, you do you. It would be FAR more effective if governments worked with local business to create incentives for people who have gotten fully vaccinated, perhaps BGW having fully vaccinated days kinda like the members only days: "Come enjoy the park the way you used to, no masks outside! Yada yada yada" or something like that. I know that idea has holes in it, but positive reinforcement is always more effective than punishment, so simply not allowing people who aren't vaccinated in would just cause more issues for an already distrustful demographic of Americans.
That's where I have to disagree. That's not fine and "you do you".
Anyone who does not get vaccinated because they don't "feel" like it is endangering and potentially killing the part of the population that cannot be vaccinated for actual health reasons.
There's holes in this logic though. When someone gets a flu shot, it's to lessen their chances of getting the flu. It's not necessarily to prevent the spread of the flu. Same with tetanus, meningitis, even rabies, etc.
Also, for many that I know, it's not necessarily an issue of "feeling" like it as much as waiting to see how things play out with the vaccines, given the rapid development and potential health problems caused by the vaccines.
I have actually not heard of any substantial numbers of people unable to get the vaccine for health reasons, that's not me saying you're incorrect rather I'd like to possibly read more about this? I just did some digging on google and couldn't really find much so if you have any specific resources that would be great. I was under the assumption just about everyone who would want the vaccine could get it (16+ of course).
Of course it's an unfortunate consequence of people being allowed to make that decision for themselves, but people should be able to make that decision for themselves, fundamentally. Again I see the positives of the vaccine outweighing the mostly nonexistent negatives, hence why I got it. But I'm a firm believer of assuming your own risk, so if you don't get it, that's on you. I would love to see any literature on people being substantially more at risk due to others not getting vaccinated because they are unable to get the vaccine themselves, even though studies are showing vaccinated people can still spread the virus with this form of vaccine.
I know it's a concern with a lot of other vaccines, but in the case of the COVID vaccine, it actually looks like it's sorta a non-issue so far?
COVID-19 Vaccination Considerations for Persons with Underlying Medica
If you have an underlying medical condition, this can help you make an informed decision about getting a COVID-19 vaccination.
That helps make me feel a lot better about going all libertarian with it (if you decide not to get it, you do you, good luck). That's not to say we shouldn't be HEAVILY incentivizing vaccination though—reaching vaccine-induced herd immunity is still critical to getting out of this.
That is what I thought. I only take that stance of "you do you" when you are not risking others safety to an extent. For example, we risk others safety by driving. Though the risk is low. The risk of you not getting vaccinated seems (as far as what I have read and seen so far) to be low to others as well, so I'm all for letting people make their hubbub about it unless some real research comes out that says the contrary.
I know it's a concern with a lot of other vaccines, but in the case of the COVID vaccine, it actually looks like it's sorta a non-issue so far?
COVID-19 Vaccination Considerations for Persons with Underlying Medica
If you have an underlying medical condition, this can help you make an informed decision about getting a COVID-19 vaccination.www.cdc.gov
That helps make me feel a lot better about going all libertarian with it (if you decide not to get it, you do you, good luck). That's not to say we shouldn't be HEAVILY incentivizing vaccination though—reaching vaccine-induced herd immunity is still critical to getting out of this.
[...]
People with weakened immune systems should also be aware of the potential for reduced immune responses to the vaccine, as well as the need to continue following current guidance to protect themselves against COVID-19.[...]
Just because it's save to get vaccinated doesn't help people with weak immune systems to not potentially get sick unfortunately.
That is the main thing driving my thought process to encouraging more people to get vaccinated, though I think it's still important to note the vaccines are more protection-based than "stop the spread" based, as vaccinated individuals can still spread based on recent studies. With that being true, even vaccinated individuals can give the virus to immunocompromised individuals, so that's where I start to see requiring vaccinations as unnecessary. It's always a good thing to have more people safely vaccinated, I just think strong arming is a tactic that never really ends well, and we should try positive reinforcement.
I dont think the BGW will ever go to a vaccine required time. And lets say they do, someone mentioned them checking your vaccine card against the govenrment database. Im not sure that a theme park would be granted access to that short of a national passport and the chance of that happening is also slim. Even if there were can you imagine how long it would take to get in the park every day?
Speaking of impacts, Orange County Florida just anounced social distance goes from 6 foot to 3 feet immediately and guidelines for changes in masks and lkifting all requirements based on percentage of vaccinated people. He soecifically mentioned he talked to parks and expects them to make changes based on his changes.
Speaking of impacts, Orange County Florida just anounced social distance goes from 6 foot to 3 feet immediately and guidelines for changes in masks and lkifting all requirements based on percentage of vaccinated people. He soecifically mentioned he talked to parks and expects them to make changes based on his changes.
I agree, BGW really does not have the “need” for access to a govt database, which will inherently run slow and not be optimized. Plus I know that even though I’m vaccinated, I wouldn’t want to give BGW my vaccine info, so I wouldn’t go if they forced me to show that stuff.
Right now, the only real sector moving toward requiring the vaccine is colleges, and even then it’s not really clear how this policy will be enforced. When the FDA authorization moves from emergency to “fully authorized,” I expect colleges, military, etc. will move on enforcement, but until then it’s going to function as more of a strong suggestion.
I don’t foresee BGW entering into this space: there just isn’t a justifiable reason, with a primarily outdoor park. The whole industry is going to have to figure out the timing of when to move from masks to masks indoors to distancing but no masks to “back to normal” over the next 6-8 months. And while encouraging vaccination is in their best interest to GET to that normal, requiring it feels outside of their public image to me.
“Buy one ticket, get one free if you’re vaccinated” might be the only thing I can think of that might work for the park to push vaccination without requiring it.
I don’t foresee BGW entering into this space: there just isn’t a justifiable reason, with a primarily outdoor park. The whole industry is going to have to figure out the timing of when to move from masks to masks indoors to distancing but no masks to “back to normal” over the next 6-8 months. And while encouraging vaccination is in their best interest to GET to that normal, requiring it feels outside of their public image to me.
“Buy one ticket, get one free if you’re vaccinated” might be the only thing I can think of that might work for the park to push vaccination without requiring it.