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No. Not even close. A beach is not anywhere close to the same thing as an amusement park when it comes to COVID.

What beaches do you guys go to that you're touching a bunch of the same things as thousands of people that day? Go to a different one.

It's about the closest thing you can come to. Also sand.....sand is the thing that thousands of people can touch and there's no control over where that goes.

But it's less about the contact with surfaces and more about physical distancing, respiratory expulsion in spaces, and particles of fluids that come out of the mouth/nose when talking/breathing/coughing/sneezing.
 
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It's about the closest thing you can come to. Also sand.....sand is the thing that thousands of people can touch and there's no control over where that goes.

But it's less about the contact with surfaces and more about physical distancing, respiratory expulsion in spaces, and particles of fluids that come out of the mouth/nose when talking/breathing/coughing/sneezing.

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The problem with the "inconsistency" is some of the places opening could spread it before safer places even have a chance to open (including Phase 2 church openings). I don't have anything against stores being opened though, even when nonessential, they are places to buy stuff to do things somewhere else.

Theme parks could be about not attracting people from out of state, but pretty soon the lack of parks here will be sending Virginians to other states. I still think it's more about that social experiment is already in progress elsewhere and it's a better time to watch what happens. I don't know if risks are being analyzed and modeled by anyone, I expect someone is but haven't heard anything about decisions being based on anything but what looks like personal judgement and the most general facts.
 
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I guess I'm a little off subject here but just a few things I'd like to point out from my experience just this week. Tuesday was really hot and humid here in Williamsburg. Went to the grocery store and there were several people not wearing masks. Asked the asst manager if there was a rule in place and he said for employees only, shoppers are not required to wear a mask. Kind of confused by that as I thought the governor had made masks in public mandatory.

My other point is when we were walking through the parking lot to and from various stores; wearing a mask was pretty uncomfortable because of sweating and just generally being hot. I can't imagine what it would be like to walk through BGW on a 100 degree heat index day. I would think it would be pretty miserable. We have pretty much written off BGW for this season. If ( a BIG if) they should open for HOS or CT we might consider it then if we have to continue to wear masks.
 
The Catch-22 of this situation is that SeaWorld/Cedar Fair are arguing that Theme Parks are distinct from the other categories they're lumped in with, and Northam is essentially agreeing with them, which is why he's including him with that group to restrict them from opening. Northam is focused on the sheer number of people who would be present and the higher likelihood of those people being out of state (which is a problem for all tourism operations), and the scale of handling that level of touch points and any kind of contact tracing from a potential infection (which is, for the reasons the parks are distinct, more significant than beaches, for example, which have fewer choke points and shared surfaces). Whereas SeaWorld is focused on the sheer scale of the park and the elaborate safety measures they're proposing which, imagining a situation where someone is infected with the virus, the combination of a beyond-state approved mask policy and proper social distancing should limit the potential risk posed by such an outbreak. Both sides agree that BGW is a distinct case, but they disagree on whether that means they are the SAFEST place to be or the most DANGEROUS place.

The best way I'd summarize it is that if you frame this through the lens of personal responsibility, BGW—provided safety guidelines are enforced, which is clearly no guarantee—is probably safer than other forms of tourism or amusement, given the policies that are in place, the presence of employees tasked with enforcing those policies, and the way the park's regional focus and strong membership base create a stronger investment in the park that could push compliance compared to tourist-focused parks in Florida. But the fact is that the state isn't framing this through the lens of personal responsibility: they're framing it as a macro-level public health problem the second it starts getting into thousands of people sharing space in a space where historically viruses spread (if you're never gotten sick after visiting a theme park, you're a unicorn).

It's a weird scenario where I feel like I—as a person who is a member, lives within 45 minutes, lives alone, can self-isolate without compromising my employment, and is not in an at-risk group—feel as though I would be willing to visit the park with the understanding I could leave if I felt unsafe without consequence, but at the same time I think the Governor's Office isn't wrong to feel like a theme park is a nexus point for the type of community spread that is spiraling out of control in other states. It's possible clear data emerges in the next couple of weeks about whether any cases can be traced back to major parks in Florida/Texas/etc. that might tip the scales on their understanding of the effectiveness of their safety protocols, but today revealed a clear gulf in how they're conceiving of the parks that is less a grand political conspiracy theory and more just different visions for how the parks fit into a public health framework.

One word: beaches. If this were Northam’s only concern, the beaches wouldn’t be open. The inconsistency, if not hypocrisy, of his policy is astounding.
 
Im glad everyone feels better that we are keeping those pesky tourists out of our state, but I also suggest you check out the massive number of Pa, Maryland, New York and New Jersey license plates that come down I95 to I64 headed to the OBX every weekend. Hampton Roads is a big stop off point for those folks. In fact many people hit up the Costco before heading out of Va and to NC. I even know a few now that get hotels on Friday night so they can beat the traffic on Saturday without having to get up at midnight and driving all night from Pa.
 
One word: beaches. If this were Northam’s only concern, the beaches wouldn’t be open. The inconsistency, if not hypocrisy, of his policy is astounding.

The state has been clear it does not have an "only" concern. It is concerned about the vector between tourism and the facts theme parks have large numbers of surfaces, more indoor spaces, chokepoints, etc. Beaches have no fewer surfaces, fewer chokepoints, and fewer indoor spaces that would be populated. And so yes, if the tourist concern was the only factor here, the beaches would also be closed, but it's clearly the two ideas working in tandem with each other.

I'm not even suggesting that I agree with this logic (I'd probably make a case that with the imposed restrictions and the reservation system BGW is in a better position to enforce policies and contact trace in the case of a potential outbreak than pretty much any sector), but it is wrong to frame this as a simple hypocrisy. Beaches and Theme Parks is not an apples to apples comparison given the issues being raised.
 
Im glad everyone feels better that we are keeping those pesky tourists out of our state, but I also suggest you check out the massive number of Pa, Maryland, New York and New Jersey license plates that come down I95 to I64 headed to the OBX every weekend...
I can confirm mask-wearing doesn’t interfere with pulling out a credit card. We’re grateful to peskily drop $1,500-$2,000 on the local economy with each weekly visit.
 
So I was thinking a touch about this and I do see a surface level argument for why Gov. Northam didn't alter his order.

I think he's trying to keep some of the major tourist attractions shut down so people from states with rising numbers don't feel tempted to come into our state, which is doing well with cases, and cause our cases to start to spike again. Colonial Williamsburg, KD, BGW are some huge out of state pulls for tourism. Now I still think there is some inconsistency into what he is doing, in that he's looking at what draws people in from out of state while trying to open up local attractions that people don't really come from out of state for. (I'm thinking like Colonial Williamsburg vs Montecello)
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So instead Virginia residents will just go out of state to Six Flags, Hershey, Carowinds, etc and bring it back from there. We also have a huge international airport that brings people to the capital from everywhere, many who tend to stay in NOVA. Just no consistency here by the governor.
 
So instead Virginia residents will just go out of state to Six Flags, Hershey, Carowinds, etc and bring it back from there. We also have a huge international airport that brings people to the capital from everywhere, many who tend to stay in NOVA. Just no consistency here by the governor.

Conversely instead of having high number of residents of bordering cases coming into our states and creating super spreader events, they are going to do it in other states. As much as there is inconsistency from the governor, I think there's inconsistency in how this is being viewed.
 
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Conversely instead of having high number of residents of bordering cases coming into our states and creating super spreader events, they are going to do it in other states. As much as there is inconsistency from the governor, I think there's inconsistency in how this is being viewed.
At the margins there may be less cases from adjacent activities (e.g. staying at VA hotels or going to restaurants), but the people visiting parks will simply do it in other states. It’s been the same with everything else that was closed. People have flocked to the open parks, stores, beaches, etc. which has made those more crowded and increased transmission risk.

I’d rather see KD and BGW operating at 5k or 10k, instead of all those people further filling up SFA, Hershey, etc. That keeps everyone more spread out and lowers the chance of spread events.
 
The number of people who are traveling to Six Flags America from VA is small. The number who are doing so from outside of NoVA is downright minuscule. Busch Gardens Williamsburg is unique in that it draws from a much larger region than the likes of Kings Dominion or Six Flags America. Hershey is a slightly better parallel, but I think you’d be pretty hard-pressed to find many Virginians outside of NoVA or the park enthusiast community planning trips up to Hershey, PA right now.
 
I’d rather see KD and BGW operating at 5k or 10k, instead of all those people further filling up SFA, Hershey, etc.

I'm interested if they all have attendance caps, how could they further fill it up? I think you would be more likely to see someone go: Can't go to Hershey, can't got to SFA, can't go to SFGA, I'll go to KD or BGW instead.
 
I'm interested if they all have attendance caps, how could they further fill it up? I think you would be more likely to see someone go: Can't go to Hershey, can't got to SFA, can't go to SFGA, I'll go to KD or BGW instead.
SFA isn‘t that busy in general, but if the NOVA and central Va crowds who normally fill KD start going to SFA, it’s going to be much busier than it would if both parks were open.

It‘s the same case if VA Beach were closed. People would just fill up Ocean City and the OBX instead. The mid Atlantic region needs to open everything or nothing, otherwise people will flock to whats open, simply making things worse.
 
SFA isn‘t that busy in general, but if the NOVA and central Va crowds who normally fill KD start going to SFA, it’s going to be much busier than it would if both parks were open.

It‘s the same case if VA Beach were closed. People would just fill up Ocean City and the OBX instead. The mid Atlantic region needs to open everything or nothing, otherwise people will flock to whats open, simply making things worse.

Then look to the lack of federal leadership and stop whining about states making their own decisions. ?‍♂️ I'm sorry that's pretty much it in my book. Can't compare state to state because there's no federal guideline.
 
Then look to the lack of federal leadership and stop whining about states making their own decisions. ?‍♂️ I'm sorry that's pretty much it in my book. Can't compare state to state because there's no federal guideline.

Maybe I missed it, but aren't there still attendence caps and a reservation system in place at these other parks, so they really can't get all that flooded with extra guests?
 
But then if there was a Federal lockdown or Federal mask rule then you would bitch about him lumping everyoen in the same boat and areas that had no cases would be the same as NYC. He left it up to each state to manage their own the best way they saw fit based on their own needs. He lost either way because the same people would bitch if it were the other way around.
 
I’ve visited “locals” beaches in Hampton Roads multiple times over the last couple of months (walking, never hanging out) and I can assure you that the locals were packing the beach, not doing anything akin to social distancing, definitely not wearing masks, and almost certainly spreading Covid.
This is what you aren’t admitting:
if the beaches were closed, those same friend/family groups would be just hanging out somewhere else, maybe indoors where the spread is much more possible than them being outside together.

Them hanging out has NOTHING to do with the beaches being open and it’s MUCH safer for them to be hanging out outside rather than inside.

there are ZERO good reasons to have beaches closed if retail spots/ restaurants/ gyms/ churches etc are opem
 
It's about the closest thing you can come to. Also sand.....sand is the thing that thousands of people can touch and there's no control over where that goes.

But it's less about the contact with surfaces and more about physical distancing, respiratory expulsion in spaces, and particles of fluids that come out of the mouth/nose when talking/breathing/coughing/sneezing.

sand...you think Covid is getting spread through sand.

Ok
 
Maybe I missed it, but aren't there still attendence caps and a reservation system in place at these other parks, so they really can't get all that flooded with extra guests?

Correct. The point I was making there is the cap at SFA is different than Hershey, which is different from SFGA, which is different from CW. Because of that some people looking to go visit a park that live within a reasonable distance are going to poke around at a few different ones to go to if they are close to the cap. I did take the time to look around, but I couldn't find anything on the restrictions for MD, PA, NJ, NC for guests allowed in an amusement park.

sand...you think Covid is getting spread through sand.

Ok

You're the one that asked what high touch surface there is. I gave you one. Despite your original response completely ignoring the face I was talking about the airborne spread of the coronavirus.
 
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