That’s like when my mom didn’t let me jump on the trampoline growing up because my older brother fell off and hurt his arm. I’m not my brother....
COVID-19’s Impacts on BGW
- Thread starter WDWRLD
- Start date
I'd like to know how that 1,000 occupancy logic applies to movie theaters, skating rinks, and trampoline parks (all categorized the same as BGW/KD) who can open to 50% capacity and run people through all day easily exceeding 1,000 people through the facility per day because their customers only come in for a couple hours at a time. There's no logic to it except poorly drafted and executed policy (and Northam is not the only governor doing this haphazardly).
Please do not put words in my mouth.
I specifically said the policies aren’t equitable, and I never said it is reasonable that places like zoos and parks to be open, while BGW and KD aren’t. In fact, I previously raised the inequivalent policies as being a problem.
All I did is point out that the parallels being drawn with places where people generally spend significantly less time per visit are not entirely valid; and that if I were the government, I‘d be concerned by the demonstrated unwillingness of a lot of the public to comply with COVID policies.
I can’t imagine why anyone would be confident that the parks will be willing and able to enforce social distancing and mask policies. We have seen other parks fail and other businesses give up.
Right, but that’s not my point. I’m saying it’s not unreasonable to argue that Northam is effectively singling out amusement parks by allowing the beaches, which I would argue are much more dangerous than parks, to open while parks stay closed. He should either open both, or close both. The inconsistency is infuriating and makes me think Northam has reasons other than just public safety in mind when he makes these policies.
Maybe he just saw photos from Busch Gardens Tampa. ?
He started todays presser off with some political jabs. Hes just playing a giant chess game with our jobs and econimic future.
Yes. It’s not fair. Beaches shouldn’t have opened up along with everything else. It’s too late to go back on those shitty decisions.
There is nothing about this virus that is fair. Doctors can’t get the equipment they need, churches are almost purposefully spreading it, the person who is supposed to lead us is spreading conspiracy theories.
I see this as two options. Reopen everything and hope people are responsible (spoiler: they aren’t), or stay closed for a bit longer.
There is nothing about this virus that is fair. Doctors can’t get the equipment they need, churches are almost purposefully spreading it, the person who is supposed to lead us is spreading conspiracy theories.
I see this as two options. Reopen everything and hope people are responsible (spoiler: they aren’t), or stay closed for a bit longer.
That won't be the name. The tracks are already painted light blue, so you have to know Six Flags will come up with some Superman name for it. Apollo's Chariot will be named after the Joker, and Loch Ness will get a Riddler name. Any guesses on Alpengeist, Tempesto, Invadr, etc?
If Six Flags corporate even dares change anything in the park let alone to touch BGW. They are going to get my foot in their ass and sent back to where they came from crying to their mommy about their spanking.
@Findley Thank you for making the distinction between capacity and attendance. To be blunt, I'm not sure how helpful that is in this conversation. I am certain we are all aware of the difference. Likely the problem with BGW is that by using a reservation system, they won't have that rotating door problem. So the attendance would be the exact same as their capacity all day unless they did time limits and kicked people out. Otherwise, if only 1K people can be in the park at a time, the reservation will only allow 1K people to reserve for the whole day - making the day a bust.
All I have learned from this conversation is that people are trying to make this governor seem like he has a grind against theme parks. It probably isn't that. More likely, he is scared because large crowd drawing locations are scary right now. However, you should be pointing that anger towards opening up too quick. Everyone has made amazing points on why things need to remain closed or have stricter limitations altogether.
All I have learned from this conversation is that people are trying to make this governor seem like he has a grind against theme parks. It probably isn't that. More likely, he is scared because large crowd drawing locations are scary right now. However, you should be pointing that anger towards opening up too quick. Everyone has made amazing points on why things need to remain closed or have stricter limitations altogether.
Northam, a roller coaster fanatic, is a member of this forum and was appalled by the number of anti-mask and conspiracy theory posts he saw and decided that it is too early for us.
The Catch-22 of this situation is that SeaWorld/Cedar Fair are arguing that Theme Parks are distinct from the other categories they're lumped in with, and Northam is essentially agreeing with them, which is why he's including him with that group to restrict them from opening. Northam is focused on the sheer number of people who would be present and the higher likelihood of those people being out of state (which is a problem for all tourism operations), and the scale of handling that level of touch points and any kind of contact tracing from a potential infection (which is, for the reasons the parks are distinct, more significant than beaches, for example, which have fewer choke points and shared surfaces). Whereas SeaWorld is focused on the sheer scale of the park and the elaborate safety measures they're proposing which, imagining a situation where someone is infected with the virus, the combination of a beyond-state approved mask policy and proper social distancing should limit the potential risk posed by such an outbreak. Both sides agree that BGW is a distinct case, but they disagree on whether that means they are the SAFEST place to be or the most DANGEROUS place.
The best way I'd summarize it is that if you frame this through the lens of personal responsibility, BGW—provided safety guidelines are enforced, which is clearly no guarantee—is probably safer than other forms of tourism or amusement, given the policies that are in place, the presence of employees tasked with enforcing those policies, and the way the park's regional focus and strong membership base create a stronger investment in the park that could push compliance compared to tourist-focused parks in Florida. But the fact is that the state isn't framing this through the lens of personal responsibility: they're framing it as a macro-level public health problem the second it starts getting into thousands of people sharing space in a space where historically viruses spread (if you're never gotten sick after visiting a theme park, you're a unicorn).
It's a weird scenario where I feel like I—as a person who is a member, lives within 45 minutes, lives alone, can self-isolate without compromising my employment, and is not in an at-risk group—feel as though I would be willing to visit the park with the understanding I could leave if I felt unsafe without consequence, but at the same time I think the Governor's Office isn't wrong to feel like a theme park is a nexus point for the type of community spread that is spiraling out of control in other states. It's possible clear data emerges in the next couple of weeks about whether any cases can be traced back to major parks in Florida/Texas/etc. that might tip the scales on their understanding of the effectiveness of their safety protocols, but today revealed a clear gulf in how they're conceiving of the parks that is less a grand political conspiracy theory and more just different visions for how the parks fit into a public health framework.
The best way I'd summarize it is that if you frame this through the lens of personal responsibility, BGW—provided safety guidelines are enforced, which is clearly no guarantee—is probably safer than other forms of tourism or amusement, given the policies that are in place, the presence of employees tasked with enforcing those policies, and the way the park's regional focus and strong membership base create a stronger investment in the park that could push compliance compared to tourist-focused parks in Florida. But the fact is that the state isn't framing this through the lens of personal responsibility: they're framing it as a macro-level public health problem the second it starts getting into thousands of people sharing space in a space where historically viruses spread (if you're never gotten sick after visiting a theme park, you're a unicorn).
It's a weird scenario where I feel like I—as a person who is a member, lives within 45 minutes, lives alone, can self-isolate without compromising my employment, and is not in an at-risk group—feel as though I would be willing to visit the park with the understanding I could leave if I felt unsafe without consequence, but at the same time I think the Governor's Office isn't wrong to feel like a theme park is a nexus point for the type of community spread that is spiraling out of control in other states. It's possible clear data emerges in the next couple of weeks about whether any cases can be traced back to major parks in Florida/Texas/etc. that might tip the scales on their understanding of the effectiveness of their safety protocols, but today revealed a clear gulf in how they're conceiving of the parks that is less a grand political conspiracy theory and more just different visions for how the parks fit into a public health framework.
Busch Gardens is front page news today in the Virginian Pilot. Pretty sure it's paywalled but here's a screenshot.
So I was thinking a touch about this and I do see a surface level argument for why Gov. Northam didn't alter his order.
I think he's trying to keep some of the major tourist attractions shut down so people from states with rising numbers don't feel tempted to come into our state, which is doing well with cases, and cause our cases to start to spike again. Colonial Williamsburg, KD, BGW are some huge out of state pulls for tourism. Now I still think there is some inconsistency into what he is doing, in that he's looking at what draws people in from out of state while trying to open up local attractions that people don't really come from out of state for. (I'm thinking like Colonial Williamsburg vs Montecello)
I go back to the issue I have of a 1500 sq ft bar that can fit 350 people can go to 100% capacity. An indoor spot can operate with 4.3 sq/ft per person, I think you can make the reasonable argument that an outdoor venue that does have every high touch surface having someone watch it, should be open with a higher limit. I think that's my issue with it is that the trade off there seems to really defy what the research tells us, despite Gov. Northam saying he's following the data.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unrelated:
IF BGW is able to open at all this year and it being Celtic Fyre's 10th anniversary, and there going to need to be some sort of distancing.....I would love to see them move Celtic Fyre to RPT for one maybe two seasons.
I think he's trying to keep some of the major tourist attractions shut down so people from states with rising numbers don't feel tempted to come into our state, which is doing well with cases, and cause our cases to start to spike again. Colonial Williamsburg, KD, BGW are some huge out of state pulls for tourism. Now I still think there is some inconsistency into what he is doing, in that he's looking at what draws people in from out of state while trying to open up local attractions that people don't really come from out of state for. (I'm thinking like Colonial Williamsburg vs Montecello)
I go back to the issue I have of a 1500 sq ft bar that can fit 350 people can go to 100% capacity. An indoor spot can operate with 4.3 sq/ft per person, I think you can make the reasonable argument that an outdoor venue that does have every high touch surface having someone watch it, should be open with a higher limit. I think that's my issue with it is that the trade off there seems to really defy what the research tells us, despite Gov. Northam saying he's following the data.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unrelated:
IF BGW is able to open at all this year and it being Celtic Fyre's 10th anniversary, and there going to need to be some sort of distancing.....I would love to see them move Celtic Fyre to RPT for one maybe two seasons.
Those two aren't related at all though.
Allowing beaches to open but not amusement parks to open is more akin to saying gyms can open but yoga studios cannot open.
I swear some of you have never been to a beach before. It's like you actually think there are "thousands upon thousands of people" getting super close to each other on the sand on a super hot, sweaty day.
Are you really not aware you can have thousands of people on a beach and they don't have to be that close to each other?
No. Not even close. A beach is not anywhere close to the same thing as an amusement park when it comes to COVID.
What beaches do you guys go to that you're touching a bunch of the same things as thousands of people that day? Go to a different one.
I’ve visited “locals” beaches in Hampton Roads multiple times over the last couple of months (walking, never hanging out) and I can assure you that the locals were packing the beach, not doing anything akin to social distancing, definitely not wearing masks, and almost certainly spreading Covid.