COVID-19’s Impacts on BGW
- Thread starter WDWRLD
- Start date
If I had to assume the issue was opening the bars in Florida, a mistake that Virginia is making as well going 100% capacity in a week. The issue with bars is they basically are one of the worst locations to be open if you look at the science and guidance. Bars are often an indoor activity, people don't naturally social distance in bars in fact doing the opposite, people are inebriated making poor decisions, and ventilation is often poorer than other types of businesses.
Florida Bar's License Suspended After 41 Workers and Patrons Test Positive for COVID-19
A popular bar in central Florida where dozens of workers and patrons have come down with the new coronavirus had its alcohol license suspended after a state inspector found patrons weren’t socially distancing and following other rules meant to slow the virus’ spread. At least 13 employees and 28...
www.nbcmiami.com
16 Friends Test Positive For Coronavirus After Night Out At Florida Bar
A group of 16 friends all tested positive for coronavirus after a night out at a recently reopened Florida bar.
miami.cbslocal.com
Busch Gardens says reopening not ‘economically sustainable situation’ in phase 3
JAMES CITY COUNTY, Va. (WAVY) — While Gov. Ralph Northam has announced that amusement parks in Virginia can reopen soon, Busch Gardens Williamsburg said Tuesday it was opting to stay closed. …
www.wavy.com
Ok, this is going to be a very long winded post so bear with me. This is partially because with not responding to any of this for 24 hours it would be way too much to go back and quote all individual posts that comment on these things.
I was against KD/CF/BGW/SEAS pulling up lawsuits against the state before the Phase 3 guidelines were announced. Now I'm a bit more open to it. I see a lot of posts talking about the thought of they should argue them being open means easier to contact trace. That's not really going to work IMO because the state would likely argue contact tracing is difficult anyways and there's more space walking around in their neighborhood. I think I saw @Zachary be one of the few that I look at the reasoning used and think would really work if they go this route: subpoena other places that were open (zoo's, aquariums, gardens) who clearly have smaller footprints for their daily visitor logs. I bet if they did that they would find those places easily far exceeded max capacities. Then their argument can pivot to do to it not being enforced, the numbers not going up, that the artificial cap no based on property size should be done away with.
However on this topic, I would be interested if they fight this alone of if they can get KD/CF on board and fight together. Especially if they can get VUHAmpetheater, Jiffy Lube Live, The Diamond, and other outdoor areas that can do social distancing and take on large crowds at the same time. I think the key to this working would be if KD/CF and the Jamestown Yorktown Foundation on board (both members of the advisory committee) for bringing a lawsuit, to me signifying they didn't plan on this being a restriction at this time.
I think a very interesting thing to come from the comments from Kevin Lembke where they looked at the numbers and came up with a cap of 5,000 people for a place like BGW. I don't think that means that 5,000 is what they need to deep it profitable to be open, but now we as park goers know its between 1,000-5,000 people. That's to me rather interesting because it gives insight into likely across the board why BGT has certain days they don't open at all, gives insight into what their reservation system is going to be doing booking wise, and in non-pandemic times possibly why they close on certain weather days that don't seem all that bad.
I think it's interesting too to look at some things like the 2-3 week lead time that they need to hire, train, and get ready to go forward with opening. I remember I put out a timeline like that early on and there was the feeling from some people that I was really overestimating how long it would take them to get open. I doubt this grew more over time the longer they were shut down, but rather it's always that amount of time. If you look at KD and BGW job fairs in relation to when they open, it's always about 3-4 weeks out from when they open. They likely are just shrinking that part of the timeline.
Kevin putting out there the numbers of how many people they employ is huge if they decide to move forward with a lawsuit. The counties around BGW (JCC, York, Charles City, New Kent) are at unemployment highs compared to historical data at this time. BGW typically has a work force of 4,000 people. So that's a huge impact on an area without a huge population. They could be looking at lowering the unemployment rate in HUGE jumps. I feel like if they wanted to they could really us that along with their contribution to the financial coffers of JCC as ways to reopen from that standpoint. But what's interesting to me beyond that is those numbers for employment seem consistent from what you can find for full time operations, signifying that even with reduced capacity they still see the need for full staffing to maintain safety.
No as for the thing I don't like that Kevin Lembke said:
This seems like a MAJOR loophole that some guests will exploit. Without a doubt (because people are assholes) someone will have a temperature and have COVID-19, and wear the mask while skipping the temperature screening and get into the park then take off their mask and create a spread event within BGW's business. I would like to see that 'or' become an 'and' where you have to both wear a mask and have a temperature screening.
I was against KD/CF/BGW/SEAS pulling up lawsuits against the state before the Phase 3 guidelines were announced. Now I'm a bit more open to it. I see a lot of posts talking about the thought of they should argue them being open means easier to contact trace. That's not really going to work IMO because the state would likely argue contact tracing is difficult anyways and there's more space walking around in their neighborhood. I think I saw @Zachary be one of the few that I look at the reasoning used and think would really work if they go this route: subpoena other places that were open (zoo's, aquariums, gardens) who clearly have smaller footprints for their daily visitor logs. I bet if they did that they would find those places easily far exceeded max capacities. Then their argument can pivot to do to it not being enforced, the numbers not going up, that the artificial cap no based on property size should be done away with.
However on this topic, I would be interested if they fight this alone of if they can get KD/CF on board and fight together. Especially if they can get VUHAmpetheater, Jiffy Lube Live, The Diamond, and other outdoor areas that can do social distancing and take on large crowds at the same time. I think the key to this working would be if KD/CF and the Jamestown Yorktown Foundation on board (both members of the advisory committee) for bringing a lawsuit, to me signifying they didn't plan on this being a restriction at this time.
I think a very interesting thing to come from the comments from Kevin Lembke where they looked at the numbers and came up with a cap of 5,000 people for a place like BGW. I don't think that means that 5,000 is what they need to deep it profitable to be open, but now we as park goers know its between 1,000-5,000 people. That's to me rather interesting because it gives insight into likely across the board why BGT has certain days they don't open at all, gives insight into what their reservation system is going to be doing booking wise, and in non-pandemic times possibly why they close on certain weather days that don't seem all that bad.
I think it's interesting too to look at some things like the 2-3 week lead time that they need to hire, train, and get ready to go forward with opening. I remember I put out a timeline like that early on and there was the feeling from some people that I was really overestimating how long it would take them to get open. I doubt this grew more over time the longer they were shut down, but rather it's always that amount of time. If you look at KD and BGW job fairs in relation to when they open, it's always about 3-4 weeks out from when they open. They likely are just shrinking that part of the timeline.
Kevin putting out there the numbers of how many people they employ is huge if they decide to move forward with a lawsuit. The counties around BGW (JCC, York, Charles City, New Kent) are at unemployment highs compared to historical data at this time. BGW typically has a work force of 4,000 people. So that's a huge impact on an area without a huge population. They could be looking at lowering the unemployment rate in HUGE jumps. I feel like if they wanted to they could really us that along with their contribution to the financial coffers of JCC as ways to reopen from that standpoint. But what's interesting to me beyond that is those numbers for employment seem consistent from what you can find for full time operations, signifying that even with reduced capacity they still see the need for full staffing to maintain safety.
No as for the thing I don't like that Kevin Lembke said:
This seems like a MAJOR loophole that some guests will exploit. Without a doubt (because people are assholes) someone will have a temperature and have COVID-19, and wear the mask while skipping the temperature screening and get into the park then take off their mask and create a spread event within BGW's business. I would like to see that 'or' become an 'and' where you have to both wear a mask and have a temperature screening.
From the wavy.com article.
“It is absolutely imperative for the Historic Triangle economy that we get Busch Gardens open and we get it open with substantial attendance,” said state Sen. Tommy Norment (R-Williamsburg) who joined the work session by phone. “There are a number of property and restaurant owners that are hanging on right now (expecting) that Busch gardens will open up.”
Recent data from Old Dominion University suggests the Williamsburg hotel market has suffered greater than any other in the state.
Norment, along with state Sen. Monty Mason, (D-Williamsburg), and Del. Mike Mullin, (D-Newport News), said they have been reaching out to the governor’s office to see if a change can be made to the phase 3 guidelines.
With these local politicians not appreciating that BGW was left out and have a high interest in it opening and looking like they are going to put pressure on Gov Northam to issue a waiver to allow them to open (and probably KD and others), I have a reasonable hope that they will be successful and the park will be allowed to open. If they can open by Aug it will at least give them one month of the summer operating season to be open before HOS and CT.
“It is absolutely imperative for the Historic Triangle economy that we get Busch Gardens open and we get it open with substantial attendance,” said state Sen. Tommy Norment (R-Williamsburg) who joined the work session by phone. “There are a number of property and restaurant owners that are hanging on right now (expecting) that Busch gardens will open up.”
Recent data from Old Dominion University suggests the Williamsburg hotel market has suffered greater than any other in the state.
Norment, along with state Sen. Monty Mason, (D-Williamsburg), and Del. Mike Mullin, (D-Newport News), said they have been reaching out to the governor’s office to see if a change can be made to the phase 3 guidelines.
With these local politicians not appreciating that BGW was left out and have a high interest in it opening and looking like they are going to put pressure on Gov Northam to issue a waiver to allow them to open (and probably KD and others), I have a reasonable hope that they will be successful and the park will be allowed to open. If they can open by Aug it will at least give them one month of the summer operating season to be open before HOS and CT.
I watched the full video of Lembke's address and questioning with the JCC Board of Supervisors. Here are some things I picked up that I don't see mentioned in any of the articles:
- Kevin says he and his counterpart at Kings Dominion - probably Tony Johnson, KD's VP & GM - talk with each other almost daily about the situation
- When asked, Kevin said BGW's maximum capacity is 24,000 - which is significantly lower than the numbers that have been reported here. @Thomas has suggested that Kevin might be purposely low-balling the number to make a percentage-based capacity limit seem more reasonable.
- While BGW would be able to operate with a 5,000 person cap as the articles state, Kevin stressed that this is the very minimum threshold
- Kevin was personally on-hand for the opening of BGT and acknowledged that the first few days take some adjusting to the new COVID procedures
- While the bill being drafted by two state senators (Republican and Democratic) to raise the cap to 5,000 might include KD, the senators stressed that they wrote it with BGW specifically in mind, as they want to emphasize the economic impact of BGW on the surrounding tourist-dependent communities
- Water Country is in danger of not opening at all
- The emphasis of Kevin's grievances seemed to be on the governor lumping theme parks in with other forms of entertainment; he continued to stress that his main issue with Phase 3 is that it makes no distinction between theme parks and venues like skating rinks and bowling alleys
- He also continued to emphasize that Virginia is the only state where SEAS operates - among California, Pennsylvania, Texas, and Florida - where theme parks have been given no guidance by the state government
- The board members and state senators, including the ones who voiced support for reopening BGW, did note that Florida and Texas "aren't exactly states we want to be emulating right now"
- While the articles say it's not economically feasible for BGW to open until late July under the current restrictions, Kevin actually said "late July or later." We could be looking at an August opening, if there is one at all
- While not super surprising given the economic needs of JCC, support for reopening BGW was almost universal among the board members and state senators present. They pledged to do "whatever they can" to reach out to the governor and try to rework the policy
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We traveled 6 hours to Williamsburg last week to show support for CW’s re-opening. We’re not likely to travel to the area again until such time as BGW opens at a capacity level sufficient to accommodate our visit to the park. For us, BGW is a major factor in justifying the travel-time commitment and gasoline expense. In addition to that, we typically support the local economy $1,500- $2,000 per a weeklong stay.
Last night I had an incredible dream where BGW announced that they were re-opening and it was glorious. I logged onto PFN and there was already a thread about the changes being made due to COVID and a meet-up thread for opening day was buzzing with activity. I was so ready to revisit the park and start complaining about small details again as let’s be real, that is our specialty, and it’s fun in a way to complain about the decline in shrubbery or the strange signage changes throughout the park. Much to my dismay, I awoke and found out that none of this happened in real life and was left saddened, once again.
Despite these dark times, we will return to BGW and rush through England and balk at the excessive number of flags and we will critique any and every advertisement that does not fit the surrounding hamlet and we will most certainly continue to complain about the rushed look of Finnegan’s Flyer. The park may be closed, but the fire in our hearts to return to the place we love will never go out.
?One way or another, this darkness got to give... ?
Despite these dark times, we will return to BGW and rush through England and balk at the excessive number of flags and we will critique any and every advertisement that does not fit the surrounding hamlet and we will most certainly continue to complain about the rushed look of Finnegan’s Flyer. The park may be closed, but the fire in our hearts to return to the place we love will never go out.
?One way or another, this darkness got to give... ?
The 24,000 thousand max capacity for BGW sounds low. I thought both BGW and KD had maximum capacities of 28,000 - 30,000. Course, I would not go near either park if they were "at capacity".
Busch does a better job of limiting attendance at the park when the visitor numbers are high. It seems they set a limit several thousands less than their theoretical maximum capacity; especially, over the last 15-20 years. Maybe the 24,000 thousand is BGW's management maximum capacity limit?
With minimum capacity, the parks would need 5,000 - 6,000 daily visitors to have some profitability after operating expenses. Even then, many food/merchandise locations would be closed or food/merch service lines greatly reduced.
Staffing could be a major issue. By now, the parks would be at their maximum seasonal staffing levels for the summer. With July 4th week being the summer peak, you only have your college students for another 5-6 weeks. Then the high school students head back to school within another 6-7 weeks. If the park won't open until mid-late July at the earliest, would it be worth hiring folks for 3-4 weeks of summer operations?
Busch does a better job of limiting attendance at the park when the visitor numbers are high. It seems they set a limit several thousands less than their theoretical maximum capacity; especially, over the last 15-20 years. Maybe the 24,000 thousand is BGW's management maximum capacity limit?
With minimum capacity, the parks would need 5,000 - 6,000 daily visitors to have some profitability after operating expenses. Even then, many food/merchandise locations would be closed or food/merch service lines greatly reduced.
Staffing could be a major issue. By now, the parks would be at their maximum seasonal staffing levels for the summer. With July 4th week being the summer peak, you only have your college students for another 5-6 weeks. Then the high school students head back to school within another 6-7 weeks. If the park won't open until mid-late July at the earliest, would it be worth hiring folks for 3-4 weeks of summer operations?
Circling back to this comment, with KDs comments it seems as though they should group together.
You've gotta remember that Gov. Northam is a doctor, so it makes sense that he's been cautious about reopening the state too quickly. According to like ten minutes of research, testing rates in Virginia have increased, while the percentage of positive tests has been dropping. Seems to me he's doing something right.
Would I like BGW to open? Abso-fucking-lutely. However, I definitely don't want Virginia to become the next epicenter of the virus.
Would I like BGW to open? Abso-fucking-lutely. However, I definitely don't want Virginia to become the next epicenter of the virus.
The part I disagree with now that the full Phase 3 text is out is those defense of Gov. Northam is weakened by allowing places with smaller space for distancing to operate at full capacity.
With doctors, it sometimes makes sense to get a second opinion. Perhaps this is also makes sense with Dr. Northam?
Elsewhere, in a state impacted much more severely than others by COVID-19...
www.nj.com
Six Flags Great Adventure announces reopening plan for July 4th weekend
Reservations, face coverings and temperature checks will be mandatory for Six Flags Great Adventure guests when the theme park reopens with 50% capacity limits announced by N.J. Gov. Phil Murphy.
www.nj.com
Financially, the park can break even between 2k and 3k visitors, depending upon staffing levels.
At this point, bars are open to full capacity, zoo’s are reopening, indoor museums are reopening, and things continue to progress in the right direction in VA overall with covid cases, hospitalizations, etc. BGW and KD are being punished and it’s not right that they can’t open under the guise that “hmmm they may spread covid”. If we have to ever go back under quarantine due to increased covid, is it fair they have to suffer, WE, have to suffer, bc other businesses etc., got to open and we’re irresponsible, which would also ultimately lead to an even LONGER delay in opening the parks???Why should a bar, restaurant, zoo, museum, etc., get to open yet these parks not? Heck - some of those are getting to reopen at 100% capacity!
At this point, bars are open to full capacity, zoo’s are reopening, indoor museums are reopening, and things continue to progress in the right direction in VA overall with covid cases, hospitalizations, etc. BGW and KD are being punished and it’s not right that they can’t open under the guise that “hmmm they may spread covid”. If we have to ever go back under quarantine due to increased covid, is it fair they have to suffer, WE, have to suffer, bc other businesses etc., got to open and we’re irresponsible, which would also ultimately lead to an even LONGER delay in opening the parks???Why should a bar, restaurant, zoo, museum, etc., get to open yet these parks not? Heck - some of those are getting to reopen at 100% capacity!
Well this is an interesting development...