COVID-19 & Coasters: Coronavirus Impacts on the Amusement Industry

[WDWRLD]

Pushing out 10-20% of your customer base that you really need to be spending money at some point soon is bad for business, especially if they go down the street to a competitor and don't come back.

I can tell you this, I personally have a 10nt stay at a Disney resort around the beginning of July. I today have booked the same stay at Universal. I have also dozens of clients completely cancel last evening and so far today some trips soon and some later in the year. When a family is told that the reservation for Cinderella Royal Table that they have been trying to book for the past 3 years was canceled they arent happy and I do not blame them. Theres no end to this for WDW in sight, dining plans canceled as far out as Sept 2021? Really?

 

[rswashdc]

I am responding to the 'great mask debate' over here because it really isn't just about BGW anymore.

@rswashdc You specifically mentioned Disney Springs isn't the same as the parks. Personally, I would strongly disagree with you on this. Disney Springs is just like any other park. It has shops, eateries, entertainment, and even has attractions. The only real difference is that Disney Springs has multiple entry/exit points and has less attractions.

You also went on to say that it would generate bad PR and negative perceptions for the companies for a strict policy. Personally, I don't believe this to be true. People want to feel safe and secure. If masks help people feel safe and secure from a virus that can be passed around through coughing and the like, then if they say it is required, that would probably make people feel safe.

Disney Springs is different from the parks in that it doesn't require tickets and there aren't a bunch of pass holders who have paid for access already having to deal with new policies after the fact that can be problematic for them medically.

The bad PR isn't necessarily across the board, but forcibly excluding large portions of your customer base to implement policies that are stricter than what the WHO or CDC are saying is unnecessary and pushes away a sizeable customer base to companies who take a more pragmatic approach. More surgical policies make sense and are inclusionary of all, not just those who are not disabled.

 

[warfelg]

I want to give a counter to the “requiring masks is bad PR”.

Depends on your view point. I think it’s good PR and it shows that there’s a commitment level to keeping patrons safe.

If we get a few weeks down the road and a park that didn’t require masks ends up the epicenter of another superspreadder event then they can effectively close their doors. Parks that required masks suddenly get all the good PR. I would suspect parks that are looking at it as saying the short term PR hit for requiring patrons to wear mask outweighs the PR impact of not requiring it and being the source of an outbreak. I feel like this is literally the same conversation at the stay at home orders and we haven’t moved on we just replaced it with a new thing.

I also think the portion of the people that would go that now won’t because of that policy is going to not be nearly as big as is being portrayed.

 

[Ghost of Pretzel Kaiser]

I certainly am more interested in going to places that care about guest safety.

 

[warfelg]

And just to be clear about it: I feel this way because people are assholes. I don't enjoy swearing but that's the only word I can think of. Because we avoided the 'doomsday' numbers, there's going to be people that think its going to be funny to violate people's social distancing. Spit right were people are. Purposefully exhale on, spit on, lick, do all kinds of things to surfaces and people. Requiring masks mitigates that to some degree. It keeps people like that from wanting to come. It makes it easier to spot people who do things like that.

Right now all I can think of is what my mom says to me everywhere I drive:
"Be safe driving."
I always respond "I know. I'll be fine I'm a good driver."
And she says "I know, but you can't control everyone on the road."

 

[Ghost of Pretzel Kaiser]

I mean, there are still people who push the “its no worse than the flu” myth after *checks notes* over 100,000 deaths.

Oh wait, that number is fake, made up by medical companies and the media for ratings. How silly of me.

 

[rswashdc]

I want to give a counter to the “requiring masks is bad PR”.

Depends on your view point. I think it’s good PR and it shows that there’s a commitment level to keeping patrons safe.

If we get a few weeks down the road and a park that didn’t require masks ends up the epicenter of another superspreadder event then they can effectively close their doors. Parks that required masks suddenly get all the good PR. I would suspect parks that are looking at it as saying the short term PR hit for requiring patrons to wear mask outweighs the PR impact of not requiring it and being the source of an outbreak. I feel like this is literally the same conversation at the stay at home orders and we haven’t moved on we just replaced it with a new thing.

I also think the portion of the people that would go that now won’t because of that policy is going to not be nearly as big as is being portrayed.

For those who are worried about going out, yes an exemption free mask policy is good PR. For those who can't wear masks and/or have pre-purchased tickets or passes, it's really bad PR. If parks don't figure out a way to accommodate the second group either in policy accommodations or financially, it's going to be lawsuits and more bad press.

My prediction is still that the mandatory masks policy for parks won't survive first shots fired. It's one thing to wear a mask inside an air conditioned building or a half hour outside getting ice cream, it's another to have guests suffering through 90+ degree heat for 8 or 10 hours wearing a sweat filled mask dealing with heat exhaustion and headaches. Most guests will do that once before deciding it's not worth it again.

 

[warfelg]

1 - They have systems in place to accommodate for changes already. And it seems as though they have given a year and a half to rebook at the moment based on how far they are cancelling things based on what some people have posted.

2 - That second paragraph is a bit exaggerated. Most of Disney's attractions are housed indoors with air conditioning. It's not like you can't take the mask off for a few seconds to take sips of water. I keep seeing the exhaustion/dehydration type comments made about wearing masks. There's being reasonable about the conversation. Then there's unreasonable by making comments like that. I'm sorry but I work indoors. I still drink water all day. They aren't going to stop me. Same for in the park there. They have no right to stop me from lowering the mask to drink water. But anyways. It's not like there's no places to go and just be indoors at Disney.

I think it will easily survive and likely would take such a long time if someone tries to sue over it that we might be out of the Pandemic by the time anything is decided on it.

 

[rswashdc]

2 - That second paragraph is a bit exaggerated. Most of Disney's attractions are housed indoors with air conditioning. It's not like you can't take the mask off for a few seconds to take sips of water. I keep seeing the exhaustion/dehydration type comments made about wearing masks. There's being reasonable about the conversation. Then there's unreasonable by making comments like that. I'm sorry but I work indoors. I still drink water all day. They aren't going to stop me. Same for in the park there. They have no right to stop me from lowering the mask to drink water. But anyways. It's not like there's no places to go and just be indoors at Disney.

There’s no relief going indoors and catching your breath for 15 minutes under these conditions like normal times. Rides have virtual queues and stores are limited customer traffic, so opportunities to get out of the heat are limited.

That means most everyone will be outside in hot, humid conditions wearing masks that limit air intake all the time. All but the fittest are going to have a hard time with this over a full day which is why I predict the parks will have to relax mask wearing outside.

 

[bill s]

The entire summer, I don't go to parks unless the dew point is below 72 and usually not before 8 PM when possible, and still feel like I'm going to die at some point every visit. Add masks and that changes to maybe 69 dew point. And they may close early. Add reservations and my weather-watch approach becomes almost impossible.

 

[VonDerrick]

@rswashdc I think you are overestimating the bad PR. There will always be a good side and bad side to every decision ever made. Some people will always inevitably find something to hate these companies for. While requiring masks has most definitely upset many people, I think that amount is less than you perceive. Do you have any solid examples or number to support your idea that the negative will outweigh the positive?

Also, as previously mentioned, people keep making comments about the heat and humidity being intolerable wearing masks. I also think this is overly exaggerated as well. The problem is not that the masks are intolerable; they are scary and uncomfortable. When people are scared and not comfortable with things, they immediately try to reject it.

I said this before and I will reiterate; how is it possible that other countries are able to wear masks through equal heat and humidity and be perfectly fine, but yet when it comes to our country it becomes impossible and intolerable?

I'm also not sure where it is posted, but I did read that Disney is looking into having mask-free zones. Kind of like designated smoking areas, but instead areas where you can remove your mask. I'm not sure how this would be implemented, but I did read something to that effect.

 

[warfelg]

Also, as previously mentioned, people keep making comments about the heat and humidity being intolerable wearing masks. I also think this is overly exaggerated as well. The problem is not that the masks are intolerable; they are scary and uncomfortable. When people are scared and not comfortable with things, they immediately try to reject it.

I said this before and I will reiterate; how is it possible that other countries are able to wear masks through equal heat and humidity and be perfectly fine, but yet when it comes to our country it becomes impossible and intolerable?

I think the best I heard this morning was via a conversation with two of my cousins. One is a firefighter, the other was an EMT and now heads an ER. They both said that they regularly have to wear masks like this for 5+ hours at a time when they are doing things like taking care of patients, responding to emergencies, heck even training. Yet right now there are people throwing fits over wearing a general surgical mask for 45 minutes in a store to keep a fellow human being safe.

I brought up the context of amusement parks, and they got even more calloused over it. The one that is a firefighter basically said you are choosing to be in that situation so he feels no pity for people that complain about it. The one that works in an ER made the comment that it's not like the places requiring masks are going to kick you out if you lift the bottom for a minute to get some fresh air, or you unhook one ear for a minute to get a drink. He added that he's amazed at the lack of understanding in this country that certain things for health reasons are seen as 'optional' and 'restrictive' and in the case of parks that I brought up is that it's a choice to go. You know when you go outdoors in Florida in the summer you know you are getting hot and humid and it was their choice to still book at that time.

 

[VonDerrick]

Personally, after having worn a mask for 8 hours, I can say it is rather uncomfortable. I actually ended up with painful bruising around my ears. I am fortunate that my job is very isolating and only because of that, I have decided to only wear a mask when around other people. It greatly reduces the strain on my ears.

With that said, I can totally understand the reasoning behind why people don't like wearing masks. They aren't the best to wear for very long periods. However, I understand the importance of the masks and wearing them around other people. I think it may be that we just have to pace ourselves. We need to be smart, hang out in the shade, drink water and take care of ourselves.

As their policy states, you are allowed to take the mask off when eating or drinking. So, grab a bottle or cup of water, sit down at a table or on a bench and hydrate. You won't get banned for life for drinking water and taking a breather for a moment.

 

[bill s]

As I explained, in the case of parks (or almost anywhere outside in Virginia), their main season I consider borderline intolerable already, and that's not even at the times when most people are there. It's not that I don't understand the situation and most people do, it's that opening in these conditions may or may not be better than staying closed. I will give it a try but am rather sure I'll be demasking on long hikes when far enough from other people.

 

[rswashdc]

@rswashdc I think you are overestimating the bad PR. There will always be a good side and bad side to every decision ever made. Some people will always inevitably find something to hate these companies for. While requiring masks has most definitely upset many people, I think that amount is less than you perceive. Do you have any solid examples or number to support your idea that the negative will outweigh the positive?

Also, as previously mentioned, people keep making comments about the heat and humidity being intolerable wearing masks. I also think this is overly exaggerated as well. The problem is not that the masks are intolerable; they are scary and uncomfortable. When people are scared and not comfortable with things, they immediately try to reject it.

I said this before and I will reiterate; how is it possible that other countries are able to wear masks through equal heat and humidity and be perfectly fine, but yet when it comes to our country it becomes impossible and intolerable?

I'm also not sure where it is posted, but I did read that Disney is looking into having mask-free zones. Kind of like designated smoking areas, but instead areas where you can remove your mask. I'm not sure how this would be implemented, but I did read something to that effect.

One of the BGW Facebook groups did a survey on whether they'd go to the park with the mask requirement and about 2/3 said yes and 1/3 said no with over 600 responses, so it's a decent size sample. However, this is a biased sample since the group is more geared towards regular visitors and passholders and not necessarily the general public, but it gives a decent idea how park enthusiasts feel about marks. 1/3 of a company's prime customers rejecting a policy outright is a lot and not something to trifle at, particularly if those customers continue to be charged for their passes.

The main mask issue isn't just the heat and humidity, it's that it's all day in that heat and humidity with little to no ability to get out of the heat with a policy on paper that masks must be worn the whole time, including for small children. Unless a person is conditioned for that level of air intake, there is no way that policy can be followed by the vast majority of visitors to the parks. This is far different than wearing a mask for a half hour in a store or on the train, which is what mask wearing in those other countries also typically entails. Comparatively it's like running a mile vs running a marathon - the first most people can be trained for quickly, the other takes months of conditioning.

Mask free zones are a good idea, though that should include most outside walkways where social distancing isn't an issue. As an example, I was in Old Town Alexandria last weekend and they closed off some of the roads as pedestrian zones. When people were outside most didn't have masks on, but almost everyone put them on when they went to get food orders or into the ice cream shops. That's a rational policy that maximizes safety, without being overly intrusive, so people can comfortably be out for as much of the day as they like.

 

[warfelg]

One of the BGW Facebook groups did a survey on whether they'd go to the park with the mask requirement and about 2/3 said yes and 1/3 said no with over 600 responses, so it's a decent size sample. However, this is a biased sample since the group is more geared towards regular visitors and passholders and not necessarily the general public, but it gives a decent idea how park enthusiasts feel about marks. 1/3 of a company's prime customers rejecting a policy outright is a lot and not something to trifle at, particularly if those customers continue to be charged for their passes.

You pointed to one problem. The other is that's extremely unscientific. Because it's based on being a member, seeing it, and responding to it.

 

[Jonesta6]

Also a road in a city is generally much wider than many in-park paths thus social distancing may be a bit easier.

Kings Dominion has generally much wider midways and I'm struggling to think of any area that isn't fairly wide outside of queues.

BGW only has a few sections IMO that would be relatively wide enough, with the park entrance being fairly narrow until you make it to Big Ben, where it narrows again until the next major intersection. Most of Oktoberfest and France/New France is fairly wide, as is the front half of Festa until right past the entrance to Tempesto where it begins to narrow.

Based on my one trip to SWO the other year ago, I'd lump it in with my assessment of BGW - some good spots for distancing but a lot of questionable sections. Unfortunately my opinion there is a bit underinformed as the group I was with were there with the park rented for our event, so much alcohol was consumed and at least half the park was closed off to us (though Manta front row with no line while buzzed was awesome).

 

[rswashdc]

You pointed to one problem. The other is that's extremely unscientific. Because it's based on being a member, seeing it, and responding to it.

You're correct that it's not scientific, as no one is going to publicly sponsor such a survey, but it's likely to be directionaly accurate. 33% may not be the actual population level percentage that won't go, but it's not 2% or 70% either. If the actual number is between 20% and 40% I think that's a good broad estimate that a sizable percentage of members have issues with the policy.

If those members are forced to continue paying for passes or don't have already paid ones extended, the parks are going to have a serious issue. I would exempt Cedar Fair from that problem, as they made the best move by extending everyone's passes through 2021, so it would be hard to complain one is not getting what they paid for.

 

[rswashdc]

Also a road in a city is generally much wider than many in-park paths thus social distancing may be a bit easier.

Kings Dominion has generally much wider midways and I'm struggling to think of any area that isn't fairly wide outside of queues.

BGW only has a few sections IMO that would be relatively wide enough, with the park entrance being fairly narrow until you make it to Big Ben, where it narrows again until the next major intersection. Most of Oktoberfest and France/New France is fairly wide, as is the front half of Festa until right past the entrance to Tempesto where it begins to narrow.

Based on my one trip to SWO the other year ago, I'd lump it in with my assessment of BGW - some good spots for distancing but a lot of questionable sections. Unfortunately my opinion there is a bit underinformed as the group I was with were there with the park rented for our event, so much alcohol was consumed and at least half the park was closed off to us (though Manta front row with no line while buzzed was awesome).

I think BGW's paths are wide enough, particularly when you consider limiting capacity, and the possibility of directional pathways. Maybe requiring masks until everyone is past the chokepoint in the England area and then relaxing it everywhere else would be a good policy. The bigger focus should be on where people linger in large groups for periods of time.

 

[Jonesta6]

I think BGW's paths are wide enough, particularly when you consider limiting capacity, and the possibility of directional pathways. Maybe requiring masks until everyone is past the chokepoint in the England area and then relaxing it everywhere else would be a good policy. The bigger focus should be on where people linger in large groups for periods of time.

That could work though part of the charm is to be able to see the gardens, rides, etc from various vantage points; unless single or double-file were strictly enforced, or some kind of method to keep folks moving, I can easily see many of the other paths clogging (wolf haven, both paths leading to Alpie, EFP's path, San Marco across the bridge to the Germany landing) if guests want to walk alongside their friends/family as so often tended to happen before all of this.

Reduced capacity will probably help, but only to a point - all it'd take is a couple families stopped chatting on one of these paths to clog things up until a staffer can enforce the rules.

And not sure how they'd implement one-way traffic - possibly walk on the right side only and keep the center clear, tape on the ground?