David said:TheMostHappy said:Sorry sorry, like I said I am not really into the business side of things with all this theme park stuff! I should have said it the other way around, my bad... the point I was trying to make is that I object to their continued ties- because, as I said, I think Sea World, for better or for worse, will not recover so I don't want BGW to go down with it. But again, sorry my bad, that probably makes my post confusing and I apologize.
As for the ethics stuff, I don't want to majorly derail this conversation but to put it briefly, I disagree with the very notion of keeping orcas and dolphins in captivity. It can be the best, most humane, most modern captivity ever, but I object to it on the grounds that I think captivity is inherently cruel for certain animals. I could go on at length about where I personally feel that line should be drawn in terms of what animals are suitable for captivity and which are not, but in short it's a combination of the intelligence of the animal and our ability to simulate their natural environment. Orcas and dolphins are very smart, and there is nothing we can do to even remotely approximate their natural habitats spanning thousands of miles of ocean, so to me that is clearly a case of an animal that should not be kept in captivity. But that is my own personal opinion and I respect that others here may feel differently.
Sorry to double post but just wanted to add- I really don't mean to divert this into a discussion of animal welfare because this really isn't the place, the only reason I raised that point was to explain the reasoning behind my question, which is what is the likelihood or possibility, given the current financial situation, that BGW may be able to cut ties with SEAS? And again, please forgive me because I really really don't have a grasp on the business side of this stuff so feel free to tell me if there's something I'm just not getting.
You are really confused here.... BGW cannot just simply "cut ties" with SEAS. SEAS is a corporate entity (created and IPO'd by the previous owners BlackStone), who owns/runs all the parks under it's umbrella. BGW would have to be sold by SEAS to someone else. This isn't a franchise situation.... You can't just give your corporate office the middle finger and move on.
Yes sorry, that is what I mean when I say cut ties- I am asking if SEAS, due to its current financial woes, might be likely to sell BG to someone else, and who that someone else might be?
Zimmy said:TheMostHappy said:As for the ethics stuff, I don't want to majorly derail this conversation but to put it briefly, I disagree with the very notion of keeping orcas and dolphins in captivity. It can be the best, most humane, most modern captivity ever, but I object to it on the grounds that I think captivity is inherently cruel for certain animals. I could go on at length about where I personally feel that line should be drawn in terms of what animals are suitable for captivity and which are not, but in short it's a combination of the intelligence of the animal and our ability to simulate their natural environment. Orcas and dolphins are very smart, and there is nothing we can do to even remotely approximate their natural habitats spanning thousands of miles of ocean, so to me that is clearly a case of an animal that should not be kept in captivity. But that is my own personal opinion and I respect that others here may feel differently.
So long as we are clear that this is based on a solid sense of truthiness and no actual quantifiable data. The reason I ask is that in a 1991 NOAA study for Congress it was determined that dolphins born in captivity have very low survivability rates in the wild, low acceptance by pods, and shortened life-spans.
That is all well in good, but we are talking about conservation, the point is to help maintain species that are in danger. This is a fact often overlooked.
Also for the record, when PETA, in the mid 90s was able to convince the VA Beach City Counsel that the building of the VMSM (now VA Aquarium) habitat would be bad for them politically the rescue dolphins and born in captivity dolphins that were slated for the habitat, did not fair so well. Also the rescue center did not get the upgrade they so desperately needed. But that is a different conversation.
The point is, the money we give to the conservation fund is supposed to help rescue and preserve animals.
Isn't that kind of the point? I don't think dolphins should be bred in captivity so the question of their (captive dolphin's) ability to survive in the wild is kind of moot to me. I would prefer that conservation efforts be focused specifically on limiting human behaviors that harm animal populations and not preserving the in the sense of preserving primarily in captivity, if that makes sense. Again, just my opinion.