Busch Gardens Williamsburg Project 2025/Holzfäller: Big Bad Wolf 2 (B&M Family Invert)

[netdvn]

They have a sign right next to the bumper cars.
There's a large sign right in front of the Drachen Fire arch
That sign is staffed with an employee directing people to the ride (although I feel this position is only temporary because the ride is brand new)
There are bell towers leading to the ride area

The only other thing they really can do with the area is add a sign on the Festhaus like they do for the HOS mazes back there.

Yes people will still get lost trying to find the ride, much like people get lost trying to find Diagon Alley at Universal, but that can't really be helped much can it? You can add all the signs and markers you want around the park and people will still get lost trying to find the ride.

I think its too soon to tell if attendance for the ride will come down due to its location. I do know attendance will be up during Howl O Scream though lol.

 

[PhantomJB93]

I think a lot of you are vastly overestimating what the average parkgoer is willing to do to get to a ride.

It’s easy for anybody who posts on this forum to say “it’s not that big a deal, it’s not that out of the way” because we all know it’s there and want to ride it, because we all obsess over this park to a degree most people don’t. The reality is, when it’s not the shiny new toy anymore and people aren’t expressly trying to find “the new ride,” its ridership is going to drop DRAMATICALLY if they don’t do anything to further develop that area and give people more reasons to seek it out. You can’t see the ride unless you’re next to it, and it’s off the beaten path in a dead end with nothing else by it - your average person isn’t going to go out of their way to find it and get to it.

 

[MrBradferd]

I think a lot of you are vastly overestimating what the average parkgoer is willing to do to get to a ride.

It’s easy for anybody who posts on this forum to say “it’s not that big a deal, it’s not that out of the way” because we all know it’s there and want to ride it, because we all obsess over this park to a degree most people don’t. The reality is, when it’s not the shiny new toy anymore and people aren’t expressly trying to find “the new ride,” its ridership is going to drop DRAMATICALLY if they don’t do anything to further develop that area and give people more reasons to seek it out. You can’t see the ride unless you’re next to it, and it’s off the beaten path in a dead end with nothing else by it - your average person isn’t going to go out of their way to find it and get to it.

If the average person doesn't care about the ride and is to lazy to look at a map for 2min and go "oh its literally just 1 path to the left of the festhaus" then thats on them. When I go to a new park and something intrests me then ill look at a map and figure it out.

 

[PhantomJB93]

If the average person doesn't care about the ride and is to lazy to look at a map for 2min and go "oh its literally just 1 path to the left of the festhaus" then thats on them. When I go to a new park and something intrests me then ill look at a map and figure it out.

That’s my whole point though. Of course you’ll look at a map and find it, you’re a theme park nerd (we all are). You’re not the average person.

The average person is not going to bother with that, they’re going to walk around, see what they see, ride what they run into, and leave. 5-10 years from now, that’s probably not gonna lead to many of them going to Wolf’s Revenge if there’s no other incentive to walk back that way. And yeah, “that’s on them” if they’re too lazy to look at the map, but it doesn’t really matter whether you place the blame on the park or the guest - that’s not gonna help it get higher ridership.

 

[MrBradferd]

That’s my whole point though. Of course you’ll look at a map and find it, you’re a theme park nerd (we all are). You’re not the average person.

The average person is not going to bother with that, they’re going to walk around, see what they see, ride what they run into, and leave. 5-10 years from now, that’s probably not gonna lead to many of them going to Wolf’s Revenge if there’s no other incentive to walk back that way. And yeah, “that’s on them” if they’re too lazy to look at the map, but it doesn’t really matter whether you place the blame on the park or the guest - that’s not gonna help it get higher ridership.

Are we talking about the ridership or just the fact people cant find it?

 

[Zachary]

Ridership.

No one is claiming that people LOOKING for Wolf's Revenge will wonder around aimlessly with no idea how to find it. They'll ask staff, they'll look at a map, whatever.

I don't care about the people explicitly trying to find one ride by name. My estimation, much like @PhantomJB93's I believe, is that the VAST majority of guests AREN'T looking for a specific ride. When a ride is new, sure, people are gonna hunt it down because it likely influenced their decision to visit. When a ride is their favorite or their kid's favorite, yeah, they're gonna go specifically looking for it. I don't think categories of guests like that make up a substantial (and certainly not the majority) of a coaster's ridership though.

Like @PhantomJB93 said, when this coaster loses that new ride shine and becomes just another family coaster in the park, baring further Festhaus Park development, I don't see how its ridership won't dwindle to a downright trickle. With what is likely such a low percentage of guests explicitly seeking it out and with passersby so dramatically limited, I will be SHOCKED if ridership is remotely competitive with the park's other family coasters.

And to preempt this argument, yes, Wolf's Revenge SHOULD have ridership commensurate with the park's other family coasters barring its placement. It is a very widely accessible (height, intensity, and intimidation-wise), well presented, family coaster at a park where other such attractions are very in-demand with guests.

Though this isn't my main argument here, I will float going even further with this prediction too. Even amongst people who know Wolf's Revenge is there, who enjoy the attraction, and would typically seek to ride a family attraction they enjoy, I believe the ride's location will suppress ridership amongst that audience too—possibly notably. Riding this attraction involves a significant amount of friction that simply does not exist for riding the park's other family coasters. The inconvenient placement, the time and effort investment to reach it, and the fact that competing, similar-market attractions are located on any paths required to reach Wolf's Revenge all combine to give me this impression.

Maybe in 2030 Wolf's Revenge will have similar ridership to Verbolten or DarKoaster, but I very much doubt it.

 

[sbroc012]

This is area is ripe for a buildout similar to Wildwood Grove at Dollywood. It would make perfect sense to tailor an area for kids 7-12 and would fill a gap in the park for sure because Forest and Dragons is more so for the 2-8 crowd. Theme the area to Grimm's Hollow, fairy tale like and put a shop and a few flats back there and voila you have a defined area that fills a void in the park for the "in between age" group.

 

[coasterfr3ak]

I understand the Drachen Fire middle of nowhere complaints but we're talking 1998-2025 (27years). Yes thoosies will know how to get here, but the argument that a first time guest is not going to look at a park map to complete all the attractions especially when they're going to be pushing their shiny new nostalgia focused attraction is ridiculous. Not to mention the park just opened DarKoaster which is also pulling a bunch of crowds back there. This just opened in the middle of that and the parks other popular popular family coaster Verbolten. I'm sure the park has thought of how not to repeat the Drachen Fire mistakes and get the crowds back there. It's also been open about 2 weeks, why are we all stressing out so quick?

 

[ControlsEE]

I think it's the totality of the circumstances that lead to DF's failure. Rough ride that really only catered to the thoosies at the time plus back of the park, hard to get to equals low ridership. I never got the chance to ride DF. Missed it by about 2 years, but my dad could only ride it once a day as it beat him up too bad whereas he could do the others over and over again. BBW2 is a much more appealing coaster to everyone, plus majorly re-rideable means that it should not suffer the same fate as DF. Personally, I would be much more worried about Alpie now that BGW has 2 inverts and one is nearing 30 and it shows. I couldn't do Alpie more than once a day 10 years ago when I was supervising it.

 

[Zachary]

but the argument that a first time guest is not going to look at a park map to complete all the attractions

I would love to see stats on what percentage of guests actually look at maps in 2025. My estimation is that the removal of paper maps has likely dramatically lowered map consumption rates, but I definitely don't have any data to back that up.

I'm sure the park has thought of how not to repeat the Drachen Fire mistakes and get the crowds back there

I think they have and I do think, aside from coaster visibility, the park has done a FAR better job presenting Wolf's Revenge in such a way as to draw guests back to the ride area. The sign placement, the multiple portals, the bells—these are all great ways to guide guests to the ride and are fantastic improvements over Drachen Fire in this regard. BGW deserves a lot of credit for recognizing the problem and trying to implement strategies proactively to compensate.

It's also been open about 2 weeks, why are we all stressing out so quick?

Because we all agree the ride is really good and a great addition to the park—meaning we have to tend towards a discussion where we disagree—the placement—to have something to talk about.

 

[MrBradferd]

Random off topic kinda..

Went the other day and the ride was almost a walk on but there must if been 50+ people in the plaza not riding the family coaster lol Just odd to see. I was like "am I at Alpengeist right now?"

 

[mjm1ahoney3]

Also somewhat off-topic, did they release a BBW2 hardhat pin, like they have for all the other recent coasters?

 

[MrBradferd]

Also somewhat off-topic, did they release a BBW2 hardhat pin, like they have for all the other recent coasters?

Not that ive seen

 

[TheBigBadBuschBro1984]

I've looked over at this ride and I think it's absolutely incredible the swaying turns are very similar to Phoenix rising not quite the same but they're a lot larger and compact. The Bavarian village is also very good and well designed especially with the murals. I will be going to ride this coaster in 2 weeks however with all this being said there are three tiny issues that I think that they could easily improve on with this ride

1. Come up with some sort of swinging element to capture that real feeling of the original, I understand that they can't have swing trains but make it to where you feel like you're swinging

2. Have a water feature similar to Manta at some point in the ride

3. have the safety speil say traveling at the speed of fright when you dispatch

Honestly with all of this love and care they have put into the ride I think these three improvements would make the ride PERFECT

 

[yoship90]

They have a sign right next to the bumper cars.
There's a large sign right in front of the Drachen Fire arch
That sign is staffed with an employee directing people to the ride (although I feel this position is only temporary because the ride is brand new)
There are bell towers leading to the ride area

The only other thing they really can do with the area is add a sign on the Festhaus like they do for the HOS mazes back there.

Yes people will still get lost trying to find the ride, much like people get lost trying to find Diagon Alley at Universal, but that can't really be helped much can it? You can add all the signs and markers you want around the park and people will still get lost trying to find the ride.

I think its too soon to tell if attendance for the ride will come down due to its location. I do know attendance will be up during Howl O Scream though lol.

Do the bell towers ring-a-ding?

 

[Le Moose]

 

[RollyCoaster]

They have to close the ride for the entire day to film? What a head scratcher.

 

[Le Moose]

They have to close the ride for the entire day to film? What a head scratcher.

“Closed for filming” yet I haven’t seen it run all day

 

[James]

Doesn't need to run for them to film. Most likely they are filming in the station which can be quite the ordeal depending on the script and setup.

 

[Le Moose]

Doesn't need to run for them to film. Most likely they are filming in the station which can be quite the ordeal depending on the script and setup.

They’ve been in and out of the ride area and presumably setting up cameras(?)