Busch Gardens Williamsburg Project 2025/Holzfäller: Big Bad Wolf 2 (B&M Family Invert)

[metalman]

Rode it twice yesterday. The theming was top notch h on and off ride. Front with my son first, he’s 11 and not a roller coaster kid but was excited for this. Had the best time in front. For me, great views, fun low intensity hight changes, swoops, and turns. It was family fun. The 2nd ride was back seat and I was very surprised how different of a ride experience it was. The speed and feeling of the first drop was immediately more apparent. The swooping turns were more dramatic across the ride and still great views. With only two cars on the invert in a smaller frame as opposed to 4 on Alpie, there was still a lot to see from the rear. I will absolutely be ride back from now on…as I usually do on coasters.
Now, I’m going to get my son riding further and further back every time he rides it to get used to more and more forces.

 

[cb0355]

They really did a good job with this project; I can’t find many people who have not said more positive than negative. I really believe that BGWFams and these boards have made certain people acknowledge the importance of fan/patron/guest feedback. Theming is such a great addition to storytelling and as a park that promotes itself as being “the most beautiful “…. Certain things need to be done. I can not wait for the Le Mans successor and the revitalization to DaVincis garden. However, I still acknowledge that a lot of people bitched about the walk to BBW and the out of the way placement. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…. This area needs to be a Oktoberfest extension of The Black Forest and some other attraction needs to be added.

 

[bill s]

I only could hear the soundtrack at moments on Thursday preview, and it also sounded a bit crackly. Without sound, I can't tell if the ending is a celebration is in progress or quickly aborted, where is everyone? There is a rattle, but it drowns out the sound far more than you feel it (did go down right after my 5 rides -- ?). Wouldn't have wanted it real loud since only on one side.

Ride had lots of "floaty" moments, if that was taken a bit further this would be one of the best coasters in the park. I understand it wasn't the purpose but please B&M (or Vekoma) that would be great. As it is, very pleasant experience and ranks somewhere within the hard-to-decide group in the middle, despite all of the others being far more intense.

It was a little better front and back, but actually seemed as much difference between right and left (better) and middle of the train rows were quite good.

Second lift went from the worst on the original ride to the best. Unfortunately the intensity didn't increase afterwords.

 

[Lord Robert]

Has any area music been added since opening? I wonder what it sounds like in comparison to the usual Oktoberfest area music.

 

[cb0355]

When I went (twice) it was not being played. But I’m now hearing that the park has continuously added theming and elements so I hear that there is music. So maybe a recent patron can confirm. I’ve posted many times recently praising this ride and can’t praise enough about it. But, there are some things that I am hoping to compliment the investment. I know many people were taken aback when I said that I heard many people complaining about the location. I don’t think it’s an odd comment because I heard the same thing about Pantheons location and accessibility. I think that’s it’s worth acknowledging that the park prides itself on being so beautiful and one of the regions most shaded. So it does require some methodical planning to insure that it keeps this aesthetic which means careful placement of attractions and expansions. To be a family coaster… it is off the main thoroughfare. There’s no seating if you are waiting for riders, a dead end , and hidden. I reiterate that I hope that this area (Festhaus Park, the ravine and the other side of the rr tracks) becomes a secondary hamlet/extension. I’m not sure how development would be possible towards the Rhine. Could we see the picnic area being sized down? I don’t know about expanding on the Boneyard/village side because of security and medical accessibility. The ride is clearly a hit but I do think that it will be interesting to see how time goes.

 

[Nicole]

Despite what a few people have said, I think there is wide agreement that the location is problematic. Since Drachen Fire, that site has been criticized for being difficult to find and less likely to be noticed from a main path. In fact, one of the objections to the height of Big Bad 2 is that it isn’t tall enough for people to see from far away; and thus, less likely to draw people in.

 

[tursiops]

Has any area music been added since opening? I wonder what it sounds like in comparison to the usual Oktoberfest area music.

There was music playing on the way back there last Friday.

 

[Chorizo]

In fact, one of the objections to the height of Big Bad 2 is that it isn’t tall enough for people to see from far away; and thus, less likely to draw people in.

I agree fully. They need some kind of drop tower, observation tower, or star flyer back there that calls people to the back of the area. I'm especially worried if they do go through with the dark ride and put it next to BBW, it's just gonna get lost and have low ridership.

 

[MrBradferd]

I wonder if doing the old way of highlighting each area on the maps would help. Like this.

Otherwise I feel like if you are truely there and want to ride everything then you will look at a map. It's not like you can't see BBW clearly on a map. If you are going to Busch just to hangout and don't really care what you find then it doesn't matter.

TLDR - Look at a map, maybe bring back highlighting each area to bringout the paths more

 

[warfelg]

To use an old Disney term: it’s missing the Weenie.

I think doing something along the outside of Festhaus along the path, flipping Das/Der/Die Autobahn entry to that path, then I’m in agreement some sort of tower ride.

I know that an S&S tower might be too loud with Kingsmill right there, but a setup like Hershey has would be perfect. That was it can go from family to thrill and be seen. In a cute play on words I would name it GlockenDriel - A mix of Glockenspeile for Chime and Drie for three. Plays on the motif of BBW2 by being the big bell warning of the Wolf.

 

[Lord Robert]

Despite what a few people have said, I think there is wide agreement that the location is problematic. Since Drachen Fire, that site has been criticized for being difficult to find and less likely to be noticed from a main path. In fact, one of the objections to the height of Big Bad 2 is that it isn’t tall enough for people to see from far away; and thus, less likely to draw people in.

I would love a brand-new Star Flyer in that area personally. Those rides are always really fun.

 

[bill s]

You can see BBWWR from at least 3 different coasters, especially Griffon. A tall thrill ride over there such as a drop tower, or even another coaster, wouldn't appeal to many people not already riding thrill coasters.

The isolation also contributes to this ride.

 

[Zachary]

Wolf's Revenge's core audience isn't riding Griffon.

I agree that a Star Flyer or other tall attraction wouldn't be targeted at the same audience as Wolf's Revenge either and hence, may not draw the ride's desired audience, BUT just the fact that a visible attraction is located back there would, at a minimum, communicate visually to guests that there is park area back there triggering the "I wonder how we get there?"

I, personally, fully expect this debate to resolve itself in the years ahead. Unfortunately, I expect dramatically shorter lines to be commonplace for 2 Big 2 Bad when compared to the other family coasters in the park—despite it being one of the best and most widely accessible of the park's family coaster lineup. I hope I'll be proven wrong, but I suspect that 5 years from now everyone will agree that Wolf's Revenge's ridership is a small fraction of what it should be unfortunately.

 

[warfelg]

They can start by giving more at the path to make you want to go to it. Like I stated opening up the area visually next to Festhaus to get people to want to explore is important.

 

[DECoasterGuy]

Do we have data on how much positioning within a park affects ridership? I know not many parks release full ridership numbers, but if one were able to find two coasters that are in very similar in every variable except position within the park, they could probably get an idea of just how much that number is being hurt by where the ride is

 

[Nate Dog]

Is it really THAT tucked away though? It's right in the German section of the park that already has two other family coasters and a bunch of flats to draw people in, and it's right beside the Festhaus that's always overflowing with people on busy days. People have compared its location to The Bat at KI, and when I was there recently that ride had a two hour line. Not to mention unlike the old days most people are gonna download the app and have easy access to an interactive park map. I really think people are exaggerating how out of the way this coaster is. That being said, I dig how it's kind of its own thing back there right now; it adds to the atmosphere. I fully expect them to expand that area in the years going forward, though.

 

[filter]

They can start by giving more at the path to make you want to go to it. Like I stated opening up the area visually next to Festhaus to get people to want to explore is important.

I thought in my memory of that corner of the park that the sign would be more visible. The green circle needs to be reduced or they need to find some other way of sending park goes into that corner. Currently the purple site line is the only way to see the sign from the festhaus court yard. opening up to the blue sight line would help people identify it. If you didn't know what you are looking for you may never find it. ( my arrows are generous and the sign location may be even harder to see around the landscaping wall.)

 

[mikes]

To me it seems the best solution is to move the full size bumper cars to open up that entrance area more. I know that is costly, but the narrow path is odd.

 

[Celticdog]

Remy's is tucked way in the back behind the France pavilion in Epcot along a narrow awkward pathway. People still manage to find it. Hence the long wait times.

Let's not compare BBW2 to Drachen Fire based on access. DF ridership fell because it was a rough unpleasant ride not because people couldn't find it.

 

[mikes]

Remy's is tucked way in the back behind the France pavilion in Epcot along a narrow awkward pathway. People still manage to find it. Hence the long wait times.

Let's not compare BBW2 to Drachen Fire based on access. DF ridership fell because it was a rough unpleasant ride not because people couldn't find it.

I hardly consider Remy's to be tucked away. Is it in the back, sure, but you are walking by stuff to get there including a restaurant.