Busch Brawls

[Jonesta6]

Good point @Nicole - not trying to put words in your mouth, just thinking more on terms to other arguments for and against things such as gambling, recreational marijuana usage, or whatever - the ability to pay for it argument is just another piece those who make the decisions feel they need to control.

Circling back to the topic though, it stands to reason that basic human nature dictates that something seen as more valuable will likely be enjoyed more... Or at least will be treated with some kind of reverence. The question is how does that something's change in perceived value happen?

 

[qdeathstar]

This is an assertion without evidence.You definitely haven't done that. I'm still patiently awaiting a coherent justification for—or even just a description of—your argument.

You’re stuck in a stupid argument and you keep asking irrelevant questions in an attempt to fluff up your argument.

You've flopped between happier people aren't less likely to cause fights, luxury goods are racist, expensive things are immortal discrimination—I don't know what your actual argument is. I do know that you're suddenly being super aggro again though and I'm not sure what caused that either.

You asked questions and I answered them. So, let me ask you a question, do you think people who litter would be less like to litter if the sofa they bought and drunk cost 30 dollars instead of three? That is what you are arguing.

Explain the expensive wine and hotel studies linked previously. The influence of prices on perceived value of consumables seems to have already been demonstrated.

Explain how you think they are relevant? The studies never showed a reduction in violence

 

[VB06Hokie]

Riff raff deserves to enjoy BGW just as much as anyone else. Especially at HOS.
View attachment 24783

I mean, going to BGW is kind of a time warp.

While we're on the subject, can we turn the DK building into a Rocky Horror themed dark ride?

 

[Jonesta6]

Sure, but expect massive audience dress-up and participation

 

[Jonesta6]

Solutions we've collectively thought of to essentially pacify park guests:

Short term:
- Remove super discounted long-term passes, revoke all these discounts before CT and do not offer more in the future.
- Ensure park security presence is known but not menacing.
- Encourage guests to report their concerns and make it easy for them to do so.
- Follow up on all security concerns including ensuring any park dismissals, bans, and/or arrests are handled appropriately.

Long term:
- Focus on making staff happier and more willing to and able to solve guest problems, including simplifying and unifying POS systems, creating clear lines of communication to seek answers, better pay and hours, long-term career opportunities, and empowerment to make decisions at lower levels. Make non-enthusiasts want to work at the park vs. other jobs in the area (to the point that there's more applicants than open positions).
- Clarify member benefits including ensuring each tier has some levels of distinction, continuity of benefits through clearly predefined time periods, and training all appropriate staff to handle benefits usage appropriately. Remove unnecessary tiers, and convert passholders to members so everyone is on the same system.
- Ensure ride capacity around the park isn't being affected by seasonal maintenance downtime including running at least 2 trains on all coasters when the park is at regular operating capacity.
- Reinvest in theming to where it's easy for guests to drop their daily concerns at the gate by the immersion into 'Europe but on this side of the water'.
- Invest in better security technologies and practices including bag scanning, cameras, and quick-response protocols for many types of situations that all staff can adhere to.

 

[horsesboy]

You asked questions and I answered them. So, let me ask you a question, do you think people who litter would be less like to litter if the sofa they bought and drunk cost 30 dollars instead of three? That is what you are arguing.

That is not even close to what he is arguing. Are people more likely to litter in their own driveway where they have an investment in the place or a random street corn would be some what reflective of his argument.

As someone who works close to Kings Mill and deals with the residents there on a daily bases. I can tell you that spending more money on something can also instill a sense of entitlement and right to be nasty if things are not 100% correct so raising prices might reduce some problems I am skeptical that it would not bring it's own host of problems.

 

[qdeathstar]

That is not even close to what he is arguing.

Yes it is. Unless you are saying you can never be “finished” with a trip to Busch gardens.

Are people more likely to litter in their own driveway where they have an investment in the place or a random street corn would be some what reflective of his argument.

except for Busch gardens is not your own driveway. It’s a random street corner. Right now people are being charged 5 dollars to stand there and they litter. He is making the argument that if you charged them 8 dollars to stand there they wouldn’t litter. Seems like a dumb argument to me.

 

[qdeathstar]

How many people seriously think that if Zachary was a single mother of three making minimum wage he would be advocating for the position he currently is?

If people are remotely honest with themselves the answer is zero.

It’s an argument only a privileged person can make.

 

[halfabee]

Sometimes it's better to just stop.

 

[Nicole]

Look, you can can play games all you want but it is clear that the reason you all wanted to raise prices in order to keep unwelcome people out. You can dice it up all you like but the effect of raising prices is what it is. I’ve demonstrated what it actually does instead of some fairy tale perversion that you and your buddy Zachary seem to want to believe.

The idea is without merit and there isn’t a shred of evidence it would work. A trip to busch gardens isn’t a sofa. If raising prices was the answer everything would cost a million dollars.

A few thoughts.

1. I have never advocated for or against raising prices. All I have done is address where I have observed the use of cheap rhetorical tools. You have no way to assess what my views are on this topic. And for the record, I do not think either a ton of security or a price increase solves the problem.

2. Your claim that I want to keep "unwelcome people" out is incredibly insulting and bordering on a personal attack. I tend to believe that rich, entitled jerks can be just as destructive as anyone else. As I have said several times, I explicitly reject the idea that any particular class of people are under discussion; I have only ever refenced general human behavior.

3. Your continued assertion that price only affects perceived value of goods is in direct opposition to all of the sourcing already provided. Services and experiences are explicitly called out in the links that were cited. Please stop with the rhetoric.

Please refrain from the rude and aggressive comments.

 

[panopticon31]

How many people seriously think that if Zachary was a single mother of three making minimum wage he would be advocating for the position he currently is?

If people are remotely honest with themselves the answer is zero.

It’s an argument only a privileged person can make.

Mmmmm straw man arguments.

 

[qdeathstar]

Mmmmm straw man arguments.

Not really. They are tangential arguments. There are multiple reasons to not like @Zacharies proposed solution.

 

[phurst]

A lot of interesting takes here. As the owner of a small Etsy shop, I lean on "perceived value" every day. There's no doubt it's a thing, but I'm not convinced it translates 100% to experiences. Would I enjoy a day at Discovery Cove just as much if it cost half the price? Probably. I think we can all agree that the Fun Cards need to go though, if for no other reason than it really is a slap in the face to Basic membership.

 

[warfelg]

Speaking of fun cards being part of the problem:

Burning a fun card for 2022 now gets you in HOS and a longer time of use than before. And it’s cheaper than a basic membership.

 

[horsesboy]

I was there last night and there was a cluster of cops and security in between England and Scotland. They were looking at cell phones and tablets and seemed to be looking for someone. I had one person I know say that they had pictures of recently banned people and were try to insure non return and another staff member say there was an incident and they were trying to catch someone as they exited.

 

[horsesboy]

- Ensure ride capacity around the park isn't being affected by seasonal maintenance downtime including running at least 2 trains on all coasters when the park is at regular operating capacity.

I meanI think it would be very fun to watch them run two trains on Tempesto.

 

[Nicole]

Tempesto is a flat.

 

[phurst]

Tempesto is a shrubbery.

 

[panopticon31]

Speaking of fun cards being part of the problem:
View attachment 24787
Burning a fun card for 2022 now gets you in HOS and a longer time of use than before. And it’s cheaper than a basic membership.

this is 110% bullshit

 

[rswashdc]

I was there last night and there was a cluster of cops and security in between England and Scotland. They were looking at cell phones and tablets and seemed to be looking for someone. I had one person I know say that they had pictures of recently banned people and were try to insure non return and another staff member say there was an incident and they were trying to catch someone as they exited.

Facial recognition software is way better at this than humans trying to look at photos. Considering the entrance/exit is funneled through one spot it wouldn’t be hard to get a look at everyone.