Busch Brawls

[horsesboy]

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its worth noting that they appear to be running the numbers for calendar year 2021 which we know BGW was open substantially more days and longer days then KD was. That doesn't explain the giant disparity I'm numbers but definitely is something that it don't see mentioned in the article that puts the numbers into a much higher context.

There are also differences in how the to parks handle issues KD uses a lot more in house security and private police then BGW who relies on off duty local law enforcement working extra. That means KD might simply throw someone out and be done with it without involving law enforcement where as law enforcement would by default be involved and may choose at their own discretion to arrestvfor say drunk and disorderly.

 

[Nicole]

Sounds like something in kindergarten to the kid having a bad day “I charge you with having a Bad time”

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say.

 

[qdeathstar]

JCCPD just put out a press release that said they had identified the 3 females form the Griffon fight. They are all from North Carolina. 2 from Chandler, NC and one from New Bern, NC. Kind of shoots the theory about being locals doing the fighting. All are charged with felonies and have not been arrested.

I’m sure getting rid of fun card and raising prices would have prevented this fight

 

[GrantLee123]

I mean, I don’t really see how fights can be stopped. 99% of people won’t fight for pretty much any reason. The people in these fights aren’t fighting because someone’s holding them at gunpoint. It probably comes down to people who are wayyyyy too amped normally, and anywhere they go with a large concentration of people would probably result in the same thing, see the Pittsburgh Steelers fight this year, or literally any other day you can find fights at arenas over the globe. People will fight. Outside of the 25 yards around these fights no one else in the park even knows, it’s just phones that make these things issues. That being said, there is truth that prices set a base in that you can’t just walk in and beat up on people, but if that was your goal, a price point of $10 or a $1000 wouldn’t matter because you’ve already deterred the fighters by simply having a price over $1-2.

 

[rswashdc]

I’m sure getting rid of fun card and raising prices would have prevented this fight

More revenue spread over less attendees means there's more to fund operations, including security, which lowers the tension from an overcrowded, understaffed park.

 

[Turbo]

Universal is sorta known for their large, competent security force, yeah? They have long had one of the most sophisticated bag check setups, they invest heavily in house ops, they have a bunch of plain clothes security integrated into crowds, etc.

BGW should definitely be taking notes, but it doesn't seem at all surprising to me that Uni, despite being a lot drunker, is also less rowdy. They're sorta the benchmark.

Universal is the benchmark, for pretty much EVERY reason. I feel like Busch should (in the near future) change the complete aspect of HOS and move towards a separate (ticketed) event. It would likely fix a lot of these problems, and provide a longer term solution and better product.

 

[qdeathstar]

More revenue spread over less attendees means there's more to fund operations, including security, which lowers the tension from an overcrowded, understaffed park.

Less revenue is revenue revenue. Raising the price will decrease the demand, as you point out.

You have no idea what the marginal cost of an extra customer is, or what the price elasticity of demand is, but I bet Busch Gardens does.

 

[rswashdc]

Less revenue is revenue revenue. Raising the price will decrease the demand, as you point out.

You have no idea what the marginal cost of an extra customer is, or what the price elasticity of demand is, but I bet Busch Gardens does.

Price elasticity of demand would only matter if the product wasn’t changing any. If they improve the product (e.g. higher end experience with better security) then the supply and demand curves will shift to account for the change.

 

[Turbo]

Price elasticity of demand would only matter if the product wasn’t changing any. If they improve the product (e.g. higher end experience with better security) then the supply and demand curves will shift to account for the change.

Exactly my point. It would be a long term change for the better. There would be a year of “this was included with my pass” before… but ticketed events (when done properly) can work. It could fix several of Busch’s problems at once.

Just think what this bad publicity is already likely costing the park now…

 

[mwhinva]

I am not surprised by the 2021 numbers. I had a feeling, that I posted somewhere on here in the past, that Busch was taking an operational philosophy similar to KD's that came from the mid to late Paramount years.

KD/Cedar Fair has been taking an approach over the last 6-8 years to not be so thrill focused and more family oriented. KD was transforming, SLOWLY, over the last 4-5 years. I started noticing a general atmospheric change back during the 40th anniversary year in 2015.

If there could be a "silver lining" to the COVID Pandemic was that KD was not operational in 2020, except for December`s "Taste of the Season" event. This year, 2021, the park had no spring operations and had a very draconian summer operating schedule. This fall has been the closest to a "normal" operating schedule since 2019.

It feels like an operational "re-boot" for KD. They are getting a unusual opportunity to get the park running in a way they want that might not have been possible if the pandemic did not happen. The Safari Village make-over next year is getting fresh theming in that area and a medium size thrill attraction as a headliner. I assume the special limited time events will continue for 2022 as well.

With Pantheon going live in 2022, BGW is going to have to modify their security operations with more stringent security policies and crack down on incidents with faster responses. If packing bodies in the park is their ultimate revenue goal, then there has to be operational changes to keep these types of incidents to a minimum going forward.

 

[qdeathstar]

Price elasticity of demand would only matter if the product wasn’t changing any. If they improve the product (e.g. higher end experience with better security) then the supply and demand curves will shift to account for the change.

Nope. Price elasticity of demand always matters. Improving the product just modifies the curve, but it’s still important.

 

[Icer]

 

[WDWRLD]

Speaking of drinking, Friday night every location we stopped at was out of half of theri beers on tap and some of those were as early a 6pm. Even Brauhaus.....it took like 6 tries to find a beer they had and that was at 9:25......then they closed the doors on us at 9:30......park close was 11pm.

As far as security there were waaaay more "security" folks working but.......im not sure they have the right security people. I saw a man and women seperated being questioned by police with about 8 BGW "security" folks standing by...... they basically looking like the park guests watching the situation. Secuirty needs to give the impression of taking controll of the situation and event and they were looking they were lost. Training needs to be more than a yellow jacket and radio.

 

[kit74]

I think keeping the crowds down would be better for everyone involved and make the park safer. I wish they would continue to sell only a certain number of tickets for each day, and continue to reserve the specific day you can come. No one likes waiting in line all day, and the bigger the crowd the more chance they have for incidents.

 

[GrantLee123]

I think keeping the crowds down would be better for everyone involved and make the park safer. I wish they would continue to sell only a certain number of tickets for each day, and continue to reserve the specific day you can come. No one likes waiting in line all day, and the bigger the crowd the more chance they have for incidents.

That would never happen. I guarantee they can make more money with more guests and more security measures than less guests and less security. No way each security measure is proportional to ticket sales increases. Plus less money in general

 

[Nicole]

I think it depends on whether one is thinking short or long term. Filling an understaffed park may increase short term profits, but could hurt the parks reputation enough to suppress long term sales.

 

[rswashdc]

That would never happen. I guarantee they can make more money with more guests and more security measures than less guests and less security. No way each security measure is proportional to ticket sales increases. Plus less money in general

It's speculative to say which way profitability would go from raising or lowering prices. If BGW offers a fixed capacity product, particularly on weekends, that say keeps wait times under 15-20 mins for attractions, there's a very captive audience that would pay much more than the typical gate price or membership cost for that kind of experience which quick queue doesn't necessarily capture. They would also spend much more on food/drinks not having to wait in long lines.

 

[qdeathstar]

It's speculative to say which way profitability would go from raising or lowering prices. If BGW offers a fixed capacity product, particularly on weekends, that say keeps wait times under 15-20 mins for attractions, there's a very captive audience that would pay much more than the typical gate price or membership cost for that kind of experience which quick queue doesn't necessarily capture. They would also spend much more on food/drinks not having to wait in long lines.

My point is, yes it is speculative. But you are the one being speculative. Just assuming (with no basis) that raising prices will create a better customer experience, and assuming that will result in more revenue when you dont have any information or data.


You can bet that Busch Gardens is not just guessing when it comes to setting prices. Which is why they are selling fun cards. Because they know that means more revenue.

Even if there is a captive audience willing to pay more, it obviously doesn’t produce more revenue than the zombie horde of fun cards and the in park concessions sails they generate.

If it did, that’s what Busch Gardens would do. But they’re not doing it. Because it doesn’t.

 

[Jonesta6]

My point is, yes it is speculative. But your the one being speculative. Just assuming (with no basis) that raising prices will create a better customer experience, and assuming that will result in more revenue. You are the one being speculative and making assumptions with no basis in fact.

You can bet that Busch Gardens is not just guessing when it comes to setting prices. Which is why they are selling fun cards. Because they know that means more revenue.

Sure it's all speculation, but there's good logic behind why removing fun cards and limiting guests in the park with the current staffing levels (and training or lack thereof of staff in their roles) would potentially increase guest satisfaction and decrease the chance of fighting and other incidents in the park at any given time.

Of course, as you speculate, they know what their net income is per capita of guests in the park and have done the math to know where their limit is.

Of course, a SEAS BoD that jumped at the chance to hire the SF COO indicates their willingness to commit more to short term attraction increases vs. long term experience increases... And the park not having as much of a say in their own destiny (even if the SF COO didn't hold the SEAS position for longer than a few weeks - ouch!)

 

[qdeathstar]

The logic is “it would be good for me if there were less people at the park”