Busch Brawls

[qdeathstar]

Ok, so your case is that, while it tends to be true that people treat things they spend more on with more reverence, that doesn't apply to an amusement park, yes? Is the theory that it's because a day at an amusement park is a consumable service/experience and, hence, can't hold its value like another kind of expensive purchase (like a nice sofa) may be able to?

Whether you spend $10 or $100 on a steak dinner your still shitting it out in the end.

You don’t eat the potatoes till you’ve had your fill of the steak and you don’t get into a fisticuffs until you’ve had your fill of the park. Timing is everything and a sofa isn’t.

Also, let me ask you this: Do you not believe that people who are enjoying an experience are also people who are less likely to start a fight?

I don’t think a higher price will make people enjoy an experience more.

 

[Zachary]

You're conflating a thing you buy (stereo, tv, mail order bride, etc.) with a leisure experience. And while leisure experiences are necessary they don't "hold value" like say, owning an ounce of gold might over a period of time.

Whether you spend $10 or $100 on a steak dinner your still shitting it out in the end.

Ok, so you two agree—the issue is that, as a consumable product, a trip to an amusement park can't hold its value and is, hence, immune from the increased reverence with which people would tend to treat more expensive items. Got it.

Three more. @qdeathstar responded to the first, but it was with a dodge, so, uh, not helpful.

Do you DISAGREE with any of the following:

1. I believe that people who are drawing more enjoyment from an experience are also people who are less likely to start a fight during that experience.
2. Market value being equivalent, I believe that people treat purchases (in this case, experiences) they enjoy with more reverence than than those that they don't enjoy.
3. I believe that people draw more enjoyment from experiences that they like more than from those they like less.

 

[qdeathstar]

Ok, so you two agree—the issue is that as a consumable product, a trip to an amusement park can't hold its value and is, hence, immune from the increased reverence with which people would tend to treat more expensive items. Got it.

Three more questions. @qdeathstar responded to the first, but it was with a dodge, so, uh, not helpful.

it’s not a dodge. Your question makes an erroneous assumption. Therefore I have no interest in answering it.

1. Do you not believe that people who are drawing more enjoyment from an experience are also people who are less likely to start a fight during that experience?

I dont believe charging people more money will make them enjoy an experience more.

1. Market value being equivalent, do you not believe that people treat purchases (in this case, experiences) they enjoy with more reverence than than those that they don't enjoy?

I’ve already answered this question. You should reread the first part of your post. Remember: we aren’t talking about Sofas.

1. Do you not believe that people draw more enjoyment from experiences that they like vs those they don't?

Enjoy is a synonym for like.

 

[Mushroom]

ITT there is thinly veiled racism and it's disgraceful. Pretending a handful of fights (mostly involving minorites) breaking out at theme parks is some sort of malicious, organized crime (with copy cats, no less) is fucking stupid.

Give me a break. The videos in these threads show people of many different races getting into fights. The fact that you've described the fights as "mostly involving minorities," with nary a shred of evidence to back up that claim, is... telling. Maybe folks just don't like seeing brawls, regardless of who perpetuates them, in a family theme park they frequent?

Meanwhile, white college towns riot and fight all the fucking time. And, for reasons beyond comprehension, often when the local team wins. But because those are white college students, literally no one gives a shit.

This forum is called "ParkFans," not "CollegeTownFans." The fact that you don't see people complaining about random college fights isn't evidence of some sort of racist hypocrisy on here - it's indicative of the fact that people here, you know, talk about Busch Gardens, not some random college town they don't live in.

Have some perspective. I grew up in constant violence - impoverished. It's not the end of the world if a few people get physical. Even riots are often dispersed quickly with the worst of it being some property damage. Big fucking deal.

Pack it up, guys. UncleDuncan is right. Tired of paying $200+ on season passes to visit (formerly) the world's most beautiful theme park only to encounter weekly fights breaking out? Well guess what, get over it. It could be worse!

 

[Nicole]

You’ve made point A. Congrats. I’m looking for you to get to F without jumping right past T first.

Not sure what you think you gain by being insulting and rude.

Regardless, my singular point was to correlate price with perceived value. I have no interest in debating the rest of this with anyone here. I can’t fathom what it would achieve.

 

[Zachary]

I dont believe charging people more money will make them enjoy an experience more.

​

I tried. I can't really try to find common ground with someone who just dodges.

 

[qdeathstar]

How many fights have you personally experienced lol….

 

[qdeathstar]

Not sure what you think you gain by being insulting and rude.

Regardless, my singular point was to correlate price with perceived value. I have no interest in debating the rest of this with anyone here. I can’t fathom what it would achieve.

I’m definitely not insulting you. But you just assume because you made a point you’ve made all the necessary connections and that just isn’t the case.

 

[UncleDuncan]

Ok, so you two agree—the issue is that as a consumable product, a trip to an amusement park can't hold its value and is, hence, immune from the increased reverence with which people would tend to treat more expensive items. Got it.

Three more questions. @qdeathstar responded to the first, but it was with a dodge, so, uh, not helpful.

1. Do you not believe that people who are drawing more enjoyment from an experience are also people who are less likely to start a fight during that experience?
2. Market value being equivalent, do you not believe that people treat purchases (in this case, experiences) they enjoy with more reverence than than those that they don't enjoy?
3. Do you not believe that people draw more enjoyment from experiences that they like vs those they don't?

These questions are all alluding to an end state where people will pay more for things they value. Zachary, no offense - but no shit. That's not the problem or at least a very reductive way at looking at a bigger issue. If that's the case, we should all pay HOAs and hangout in country clubs because those neighborhoods and fancy drinking rooms are effectively "better" because they cost more to get in.

The problem is increasing retail costs to only reflect an increase perceived value is basically a fancy way of saying, price out the poor because they don't value experiences the way people who throw down good money do.

If you don't see that, I can't help you.

 

[qdeathstar]

​

I tried. I can't really try to find common ground with someone who just dodges.

It’s not a dodge. You wont cop to the fact your question makes assumptions.

I don’t think the people who are getting into fights are doing it because they aren’t happy with their experience at Busch gardens.

you can certainly choose to enjoy your experience at Busch gardens then when you are done with it start a fight, if you fancy. There is no mutual exclusivity.

A small group of people enjoy a coke then through it out the window of thier car. An even smaller group of people enjoy their experience at Busch gardens then get into a fight.

maybe if those cokes costed $30 those littering fools would hold onto the bottles….

eh… maybe not…

 

[UncleDuncan]

It’s not a dodge. You wont cop to the fact your question makes assumptions.

I don’t think the people who are getting into fights are doing it because they aren’t happy with their experience at Busch gardens.

Nor would paying more make them think twice about getting into a fight. Had the same group all paid 25 dollars more to get in, the fight would have happened regardless.

 

[Thomas]

 

[Zachary]

I don’t think the people who are getting into fights are doing it because they aren’t happy with their experience at Busch gardens.

Ok, but that wasn't the question. I asked if you believe that people who are drawing more enjoyment from an experience are also people who are less likely to start a fight during that experience.

Regardless, it seems likely to me that neither you nor @UncleDuncan agree with that idea which is totally fine—I don't have any proof or studies on my side (though I'm pretty certain you don't either)—making this just a simple difference of opinion. That's all I was trying to understand—where we actually disagree.

I, personally, hope that people's enjoyment of an experience can reduce people's propensity for violence as it would mean that BGW has a positive lever to pull to discourage some of the violence from ever occuring—but if you two think that positive park experiences can't play a role in reducing violence, no worries—it's just a difference in opinion.

 

[qdeathstar]

Ok, but that wasn't the question. I asked if you believe that people who are drawing more enjoyment from an experience are also people who are less likely to start a fight during that experience

Who cares? You are asking me to defend an argument I’m not making.

Do you think that if people were charged 30 bucks for a coke they would be less likely to chuck it out the window after they were done with it?

What makes littering after consuming a beverage different from fighting after you are done with your experience?

 

[Zachary]

Oh, right, my bad—that's why I was asking if you don't believe the idea to be true previously. I'm not asking you to defend my premise, I'm asking you to defend your position if you disagree with my premise. I was careful to do that in my previous posts—I just worded it differently the third time around without thinking.

So yes, from my reading of your posts, you disagree with this statement:

"I believe that people who are drawing more enjoyment from an experience are also people who are less likely to start a fight during that experience."

 

[qdeathstar]

Oh, right, my bad—that's why I was asking if you don't believe the idea to be true. I'm not asking you to defend it, I'm asking you to defend your position if you disagree with my premise. I was careful to do that in my previous posts—I just worded it differently the third time around without thinking.

I have defended my position but for some reason you ask tangential questions and demand I answer them before responding to my argument.

 

[UncleDuncan]

Give me a break. The videos in these threads show people of many different races getting into fights. The fact that you've described the fights as "mostly involving minorities," with nary a shred of evidence to back up that claim, is... telling. Maybe folks just don't like seeing brawls, regardless of who perpetuates them, in a family theme park they frequent?



This forum is called "ParkFans," not "CollegeTownFans." The fact that you don't see people complaining about random college fights isn't evidence of some sort of racist hypocrisy on here - it's indicative of the fact that people here, you know, talk about Busch Gardens, not some random college town they don't live in.



Pack it up, guys. UncleDuncan is right. Tired of paying $200+ on season passes to visit (formerly) the world's most beautiful theme park only to encounter weekly fights breaking out? Well guess what, get over it. It could be worse!

Oh good. The understanderer arrived.

1. There were obvious racial tones and bizarre conspiratorial bullshit tossed around in earlier posts. It's not telling, genius, that I noticed. Maybe from a nice suburban home it's hard to see the forest from the trees, but enough was said for me to call bullshit when often I keep my mouth shut.

2. Yes, I used college towns as a reference because this place had no perspective on anything. Like BGW happens in a fucking bubble. "zOMG fighting? How can this be?!?!?" Yet when some random whitebred college wins or loses, cars are set on fire, people fight. And no one goes to jail.

3. You act like I condone this behavior when I actually hate it and it saddens me. But I find it laughable the smart answer from a very smart person is, raise the ticket prices.

It's obvious you're not trying to have a discourse with me but discount what I said. That's fine. But if that's the case, don't quote me and proceed to put words in my mouth. I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguing.

 

[Zachary]

There were obvious racial tones and bizarre conspiratorial bullshit tossed around in earlier posts.

Just to be crystal clear, no one in this discussion right now is defending the dog whistling that happened earlier in this thread.

 

[qdeathstar]

Just to be crystal clear, no one in this discussion right now is defending the dog whistling that happened earlier in this thread.

I believe it is not your intention. Not explicit racism. But there is implicit racism in suggesting higher prices will solve your problems. Minorities tend to be poorer and will be the most harmed by your solution to a few bad apples.

 

[UncleDuncan]

Ok, but that wasn't the question. I asked if you believe that people who are drawing more enjoyment from an experience are also people who are less likely to start a fight during that experience.

Regardless, it seems likely to me that neither you nor @UncleDuncan agree with that idea which is totally fine—I don't have any proof or studies on my side (though I'm pretty certain you don't either)—making this just a simple difference of opinion. That's all I was trying to understand—where we actually disagree.

I, personally, hope that people's enjoyment of an experience can reduce people's propensity for violence as it would mean that BGW has a positive lever to pull to discourage some of the violence from ever occuring—but if you two think that positive park experiences can't play a role in reducing violence, no worries—it's just a difference in opinion.

Zachary, I don't take issue with people who are having good time are less likely to start a fight.

Where we disagree is you think people who pay more are more invested in having a good time. And therefore, ticket prices should be raised. Sorry dude. I think you're wrong with that notion. I think if all things were equal and the same players all paid more to get in, the behavior would not change.

And the unintended (?) consequence is effectively pricing out poor people so people who have more money can theoretically enjoy themselves because they're more invested. But again, I don't think the behavior you're trying to change would actually change. You might have fewer people in the park as a result.