Banbury Cross Retheme Coming in 2014
- Thread starter Zachary
- Start date
The re-theme is happening before the show opens, none of this will be known until after it's done.
Party Rocker said:
I would agree with this point except for the fact that the largest indoor theater in the park is literally right as you walk in...I think your seeing the park how it's been the last 20 years where I would say it wasted The Globe on 4D movies. Why else would you have such a large theater but to have shows like this? I'm extremely excited for London Rocks, Monster Stomp(if it comes back) and hopefully they'll also have Sesame Street again this year for CT.
Party Rocker said:
They have nothing else new to promote, why wouldn't they promote this as much as possible? British Invasion music appeals to many generations, and as you say below some people just enjoy the shows....they would be fools not to promote it.
This isn't necessarily directed at you PR, but to say that the park shouldn't promote the only new thing while at the same time complaining about the attendance numbers is just hypocritical and ridiculous.
Party Rocker said:
There are no rides in Banbury, how could they ever change it to incorporate a ride, the only way to change that particular hamlet would be to incorporate a show.
Party Rocker said:
Personally, I think the ticket thing is part of the hype and marketing, it's to make you feel like going to a rock concert, I think it's a great idea. It's also psychological "If I need a ticket, it must be important" kind of thing. Plus it will draw people back to the front area with all the stores and shops, I would guess that IF that is what they are doing, it'll probably only last a month or so(maybe only opening weekend as part of the fun).
Party Rocker said:
I'm in agreement fully.
I'm not trolling because I have an unpopular opinion. I've noticed that word thrown around a lot for people who disagree with the popular opinion, it's rather unfair at the very least, and the same thing happened with Matt Conkle. It's all well and good that you really like something. Change is always inevitable, and if it really does fail like everybody thinks it will, the park can simply change it back.
As I've said, KD is not kid friendly like BGW is. Plus it's filthy and doesn't look as well as BGW, but that all has been mentioned here before they started getting mushrooms and apples. There's also the simple fact that KD is farther away. I would be perfectly happy to go into KD's problems in another thread.
He only gave generalities, for all we know BGT and SP could be bringing down the chain. I know it's easy to bend generalities to your side of the argument, but it's really not helpful. The only other info hinting at declines are third party estimates and a user here who simply says that he has all this inside info. I hate to surprise you all, but I actually live on the moon and have pet whales.
Since this clearly isn't directed at me in anyway, I'd like to briefly point out that I've been registered here since 2011 and have been lurking. I know what I'm talking about JOE1.
Then it's doing a disservice to the park. The park isn't focusing on thematic elements anymore for whatever reasons. In that sense, Banbury as it existed has no place at the park anymore.
That alone makes you better than most of the people here.
Mike79 said:
Please do. Clearly you know next to nothing about the park.
Mike79 said:
So... because the area is well themed, it has no place in the park anymore? Nice.
I'm guessing May or April. The park starts doing things around that point.
Joe, Mike79
It's obvious corporate is moving the Busch parks into a new Direction... Or it should be obvious between Pantopia and the planned Banbury retheme. The fact both the Busch properties are changing the way the parks are themed should tell you this is not a local decision.
If Seas is trying to truly to change the busch parks in that regard, then yes, Banbury has no place in the parks.
Do I agree with this direction in the slightest? No. I'm of the opinion is the play-makers at the park need to figure out what needs to be touched, what can be touched and what is ICONIC (do not touch).
Banbury as it stands now is in fact iconic. But it does need to be touched up... It's 30 years old. It's time. And if the Big Boss wants me to fix it a certain way, I'm going to. If I were going to redo England in an attempt to rebrand the park, I'd turn it into a very glamorized 1920's England. And yes, I'd touch the whole area and redo it even if it meant ripping down Big Ben. My reasons? 1. Early 1900's is a popular time period again. 2. I can keep the area familiar, While giving it a drastic face lift. 3. I can pay homage to the previous area design with perhaps a Parliament Facade which includes a replica of the actual Big Ben by using this time period.
If any of you havent seen the teaser sign for London Rocks, I urge you to go back in this thread and find it. If that's what they were going to do to Banbury... Then, God help us all.
The important part in doing such things as rebranding is to pay homage to what was there before and make it recognizable. The MOST important part is evaluating what you are about to change meant and means to the park... If I were to rip down the old Ben, I'd put a new one there, somewhere. You can't destroy a park icon without recognizing it after you move on. Larry Giles Understood this when planning Verbolten and figured out two smart ways to recognize the Big Bad Wolf, Share the drop over the river and devote a whole show scene to it... Why Scott hasn't seemed to figure this out yet just boggles my mind. Universal wouldn't be doing all that it's doing now if it wasn't for Kongfrontation. One of the most famous, well-known dark rides ever created, And its removal was a shock to everyone that only was paralleled by the removal of The Jaws ride. But, Not only did they place a Kong homage in Revenge of the Mummy, They are building a new Kong Ride (Long after the Kong movie's relevance) might I add... (Jaws lives on through clones, and they left the shark photo op just fyi.)
Anyways, I'd seriously say that just about everything in the park could and should have been touched before Banbury and the Festhaus and it's rising stage... I mean, as it stands now, If Bgw announced renovations, they are the only park in the world where that news would terrify me, because they are the only park destroying their park history, For shows of all things.
It's obvious corporate is moving the Busch parks into a new Direction... Or it should be obvious between Pantopia and the planned Banbury retheme. The fact both the Busch properties are changing the way the parks are themed should tell you this is not a local decision.
If Seas is trying to truly to change the busch parks in that regard, then yes, Banbury has no place in the parks.
Do I agree with this direction in the slightest? No. I'm of the opinion is the play-makers at the park need to figure out what needs to be touched, what can be touched and what is ICONIC (do not touch).
Banbury as it stands now is in fact iconic. But it does need to be touched up... It's 30 years old. It's time. And if the Big Boss wants me to fix it a certain way, I'm going to. If I were going to redo England in an attempt to rebrand the park, I'd turn it into a very glamorized 1920's England. And yes, I'd touch the whole area and redo it even if it meant ripping down Big Ben. My reasons? 1. Early 1900's is a popular time period again. 2. I can keep the area familiar, While giving it a drastic face lift. 3. I can pay homage to the previous area design with perhaps a Parliament Facade which includes a replica of the actual Big Ben by using this time period.
If any of you havent seen the teaser sign for London Rocks, I urge you to go back in this thread and find it. If that's what they were going to do to Banbury... Then, God help us all.
The important part in doing such things as rebranding is to pay homage to what was there before and make it recognizable. The MOST important part is evaluating what you are about to change meant and means to the park... If I were to rip down the old Ben, I'd put a new one there, somewhere. You can't destroy a park icon without recognizing it after you move on. Larry Giles Understood this when planning Verbolten and figured out two smart ways to recognize the Big Bad Wolf, Share the drop over the river and devote a whole show scene to it... Why Scott hasn't seemed to figure this out yet just boggles my mind. Universal wouldn't be doing all that it's doing now if it wasn't for Kongfrontation. One of the most famous, well-known dark rides ever created, And its removal was a shock to everyone that only was paralleled by the removal of The Jaws ride. But, Not only did they place a Kong homage in Revenge of the Mummy, They are building a new Kong Ride (Long after the Kong movie's relevance) might I add... (Jaws lives on through clones, and they left the shark photo op just fyi.)
Anyways, I'd seriously say that just about everything in the park could and should have been touched before Banbury and the Festhaus and it's rising stage... I mean, as it stands now, If Bgw announced renovations, they are the only park in the world where that news would terrify me, because they are the only park destroying their park history, For shows of all things.
Matt, I have not been going to the park for 20 years, if you see I am only but 20 years old 
Yes the Globe has not been used to it's full potential in more recent years; however, it is not the same as a ride. The show at the Globe is more of something to do while you wait for the rest of the park to open, or as the very last thing you do when you leave and try to relax a bit. Look at Imaginique, it was a show meant to be the last thing people did before leaving. That is what the show in the Globe should aim for. Also, I am going to say that Das Festhaus is the largest indoor theater, with the Globe following closely behind.
But see the things with promoting new things is each thing has it's own precedent for how advertising should be applied. Rides, events, and opening should be the things that get the most advertising and pushed the hardest. Shows can get advertised no problem, but definitely not to the extent they are doing it. If you are expecting something new, you expect it to be a ride. If the park can not deliver a new ride, and instead a new show is delivered, that is fine but don't blast it out too much because at that point you make this new show sound like it is going to be thrilling much like a ride and it simply is not a ride. Shows are not rides and they should not be advertised as such.
But Banbury Cross was never meant to change. That is why there are no rides or space for rides. It was designed in such a way to be a classic hamlet only to need a refresh of new paint and maintenance to keep the area looking nice, with slight changes. It was designed specifically for filtering crowds in and out of the park. Having rides or big attractions would really clutter up the space and area and cause major pathway issues.
I get what your saying about the ticket thing and I will agree to a point. The team member I talked to specifically said that the system is being applied because it is a new show and because it is british rock'n roll it will be very popular and they wanted to reduce the lines by handing out tickets. While I must admit, I think the ticket thing is a neat idea in theory and if done right I can deal with it and it may grow on me, I still do not think it is a good idea in this time and age, at least not for this show. Maybe for Monster Stomp, maybe for Fiends. But not this one.
I want to be very clear to everyone. These are just my doubts. I am not saying my viewpoints are perfect, or that they are right. It is just what I think and believe. I'm not going to insult others for not agreeing with me. Everyone has a different way of thinking and everyone has different viewpoints. You can't always change someones mind. I have found the best remedy for getting into an impossible argument to win is just shut up about the topic and talk about something else you agree on.
As I have said before, i do have my doubts. I do not like everything that is going on, but I have hope and I will not condemn the park for the concept because as we all should know, concepts never turn out exactly how they should. I love British Rock, I think the show may actually turn out quite entertaining. I have doubts the hamlet will look terrible in the end, but I will let time take its toll for now.
Yes the Globe has not been used to it's full potential in more recent years; however, it is not the same as a ride. The show at the Globe is more of something to do while you wait for the rest of the park to open, or as the very last thing you do when you leave and try to relax a bit. Look at Imaginique, it was a show meant to be the last thing people did before leaving. That is what the show in the Globe should aim for. Also, I am going to say that Das Festhaus is the largest indoor theater, with the Globe following closely behind.But see the things with promoting new things is each thing has it's own precedent for how advertising should be applied. Rides, events, and opening should be the things that get the most advertising and pushed the hardest. Shows can get advertised no problem, but definitely not to the extent they are doing it. If you are expecting something new, you expect it to be a ride. If the park can not deliver a new ride, and instead a new show is delivered, that is fine but don't blast it out too much because at that point you make this new show sound like it is going to be thrilling much like a ride and it simply is not a ride. Shows are not rides and they should not be advertised as such.
But Banbury Cross was never meant to change. That is why there are no rides or space for rides. It was designed in such a way to be a classic hamlet only to need a refresh of new paint and maintenance to keep the area looking nice, with slight changes. It was designed specifically for filtering crowds in and out of the park. Having rides or big attractions would really clutter up the space and area and cause major pathway issues.
I get what your saying about the ticket thing and I will agree to a point. The team member I talked to specifically said that the system is being applied because it is a new show and because it is british rock'n roll it will be very popular and they wanted to reduce the lines by handing out tickets. While I must admit, I think the ticket thing is a neat idea in theory and if done right I can deal with it and it may grow on me, I still do not think it is a good idea in this time and age, at least not for this show. Maybe for Monster Stomp, maybe for Fiends. But not this one.
I want to be very clear to everyone. These are just my doubts. I am not saying my viewpoints are perfect, or that they are right. It is just what I think and believe. I'm not going to insult others for not agreeing with me. Everyone has a different way of thinking and everyone has different viewpoints. You can't always change someones mind. I have found the best remedy for getting into an impossible argument to win is just shut up about the topic and talk about something else you agree on.
As I have said before, i do have my doubts. I do not like everything that is going on, but I have hope and I will not condemn the park for the concept because as we all should know, concepts never turn out exactly how they should. I love British Rock, I think the show may actually turn out quite entertaining. I have doubts the hamlet will look terrible in the end, but I will let time take its toll for now.
Quote:
Personally I think Banbury Cross isn't supposed to get you "pumped up".
It sets the stage as far as thematic elements as for what is to come. It makes you think you are somewhere else by it's sights & sounds. It is a calm and quiet of the park. It's not supposed to be an in your face balls to the wall area. And it does that very well.
Then it's doing a disservice to the park. The park isn't focusing on thematic elements anymore for whatever reasons. In that sense, Banbury as it existed has no place at the park anymore.
So with the direction the park has taken recently with the Aquataine refresh is all the more reason to keep Banbury how it is (granted some paint and TLC couldn't hurt), or with any change that is coming make it a GOOD change. If they want to give it a Aquataine level (or higher) refresh then I am behind it all the way. But to change it just because they can is ridiculous.
I took the changes made in Aquataine as a sign of good things to come. As proof that there were still people who wanted to uphold the traditions of the park that are what make Busch Gardens unique. I am hopeful that this quality of retheme spreads to the other areas of the park. If they ruin the atmosphere of Banbury Cross it will be A sad day indeed.
Change is always inevitable, and if it really does fail like everybody thinks it will, the park can simply change it back.
And changing things back the way they were if this retheme "fails" is easier said than done. Look at the damage done to the Abbey Stone in Killarney. Give it some time, not taken care of that existing damage will get worse. Damage that could be repaired at some expense but lets be realistic, will it get done in the current budget status the park is in? Probably not.
Just my thoughts.
Personally I think Banbury Cross isn't supposed to get you "pumped up".
It sets the stage as far as thematic elements as for what is to come. It makes you think you are somewhere else by it's sights & sounds. It is a calm and quiet of the park. It's not supposed to be an in your face balls to the wall area. And it does that very well.
Then it's doing a disservice to the park. The park isn't focusing on thematic elements anymore for whatever reasons. In that sense, Banbury as it existed has no place at the park anymore.
So with the direction the park has taken recently with the Aquataine refresh is all the more reason to keep Banbury how it is (granted some paint and TLC couldn't hurt), or with any change that is coming make it a GOOD change. If they want to give it a Aquataine level (or higher) refresh then I am behind it all the way. But to change it just because they can is ridiculous.
I took the changes made in Aquataine as a sign of good things to come. As proof that there were still people who wanted to uphold the traditions of the park that are what make Busch Gardens unique. I am hopeful that this quality of retheme spreads to the other areas of the park. If they ruin the atmosphere of Banbury Cross it will be A sad day indeed.
Change is always inevitable, and if it really does fail like everybody thinks it will, the park can simply change it back.
And changing things back the way they were if this retheme "fails" is easier said than done. Look at the damage done to the Abbey Stone in Killarney. Give it some time, not taken care of that existing damage will get worse. Damage that could be repaired at some expense but lets be realistic, will it get done in the current budget status the park is in? Probably not.
Just my thoughts.
OK stop right there. I can definitely see where you're coming from with a good chunk of your argument, but this is where it falls flat.
The park looked filthy and wasn't treated well with by the parent company. The parent company basically stripped all their parks down in the 2000s and stopped adding investments, letting old rides rot or getting rid of them altogether, and replacing any charm the parks had with a movie overlay (which worked at times, especially early in the Paramount lifespan while they were still investing in the parks - not so much later).
CF steps in and begins adding capital investments into the park, investing more into family attractions, and overall improving the quality of the parks. That's where KD is right now.
The singing mushrooms and giant candy apples were a part of KD's history, a history long lost after Paramount took over. The fact that the park is taking time to go back to its roots and bring back some old charm the park had is why there is so much support.
In contrast, BGW decided to commemorate Loch Ness's 35th anniversary with a silly bottle. There was no mention about HOS's 15th anniversary or Apollo's, although I fully support LOD's rehab and even Sesame Street's 5th celebration.
I guarantee you people will be angry if BGW decided to add singing mushrooms and giant apples all over the place because it never fit with any theme the park had.
Bringing this back to topic, I rarely check this thread because I know everyone knocks on the park for this Banbury renovation. I personally have no issue with the rehab and the new show - at least until we actually see it in person. Since the park has been so tight-lipped about this whole thing, I've made an effort to not get into this whole argument.
Mike79 said:
We have what Atchison said, along with those who have inside info (sorry, not every detail is/can be shared on a public forum), and plenty of first hand anecdotal evidence from users posting last year that crowds at BGW were lighter (especially during HOS). There is no bending generalities here. If you have evidence to show that attendance was not down at BGW during 2013, please feel free to present it.
From firsthand experience during HOS last year, attendance was about the same as previous years. If the attendance fell short, it was only by a small margin if anything. Especially during peak with all the parking lots full and people parking in the grass. Even if the park didn't close to capacity, it can definitely felt like it went over to keep 64 and surrounding roads from backing up.
DarKastle even had a 5 hour wait the last weekend from what I was told by the employees. If that means the park took a hit from attendance, I can only imagine what a boost in attendance would do to the line.
Summer crowds were hit-miss with a few more hits because of an unusually short hot season. Even then, the park still cut hours short in August, so I guess attendance was down quite a bit.
- 2013 was a rather slow year after two big-ticket investments, so that might be one of the reasons why there was an attendance drop. Nobody outside the company seems to have any numbers so it's hard to decide.
DarKastle even had a 5 hour wait the last weekend from what I was told by the employees. If that means the park took a hit from attendance, I can only imagine what a boost in attendance would do to the line.
Summer crowds were hit-miss with a few more hits because of an unusually short hot season. Even then, the park still cut hours short in August, so I guess attendance was down quite a bit.
- 2013 was a rather slow year after two big-ticket investments, so that might be one of the reasons why there was an attendance drop. Nobody outside the company seems to have any numbers so it's hard to decide.
Ha, they always go over their capacity limit. They do not care about what they are technically allowed in, so long as they can park cars somewhere, anywhere they will keep packing people in.
Party Rocker said:
Uh, legally they care.
They actually do keep track of the capacity set by the fire marshal and keep track of attendance throughout the day. If there's something major that requires emergency crews and it's found that people were injured and the park was over capacity the park will have to deal with a hell of a lot of legal crap being thrown their way. I'm talking stuff that can't be simply written off with a settlement or paying fines. It can send people to jail.