Signature by whose reckoning? In my opinion, Oktoberfest was always their signature hamlet.
40th Anniversary Celebration & Park Revitalization
- Thread starter Zachary
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I don't think they are on the same level as BGW and in fact they may very well not be going to that level; however, these are just the beginning steps. If this is a trend that continues to grow over the next few seasons, then I'd say they are going to that level.
With that said, so far I am impressed with these beginning steps and I hope they keep up the work. It'd be good business for them to do so.
With that said, so far I am impressed with these beginning steps and I hope they keep up the work. It'd be good business for them to do so.
You do realize that I buy a Busch Gardens Williamsburg pass and will watch London Rocks a minimum of 10 times this season, correct? You're comparing apples and oranges here. You can like or dislike the ideas and themes that something is based off of before ever seeing it- I could decide I hate KD's park history and extrapolate from that opinion on the underlying theme that I won't enjoy the #KD40 celebration. I'm praising KD's plans. I don't know what the execution will look like. I'm knocking BGW's plans. I have some insight into what it will look like in practice but not once have I said "London Rocks is a horrible show" just as I have not once said that Kings Dominion's #KD40 celebration is amazing.
Look, I know you're out to make a point here Matt, it's abundantly clear, but your discrediting yourself through your methods.
Look, I know you're out to make a point here Matt, it's abundantly clear, but your discrediting yourself through your methods.
Matt Conkle, Matt Conkle, Matt Conkle. I just don't think you get it. I am actually slightly appalled by your saying that they are just "fiber-glassing some apples and painting some horses." Oh, how very, very wrong you are. I actually find this almost insulting to the work the park- as well as Evan, mwhinva, and myself have done to help educate others on how wrong this is.
I take it you haven't read my post examining King's Dominion's long journey as a theme park, the extensive trip report I wrote of visiting Kings Dominion with my elderly grandparents for the first time,, or seen my video highlighting the park's beauty.
Kings Dominion is a wonderful park, and whereas Busch Gardens is forgetting what made and makes it so great, Kings Dominion is working hard to return to the greatness it once had. I am surprised you would come in here and say that this "isn't a big deal." It is a HUGE deal to the Virginia park lovers, to both Kings Dominion and Busch Gardens.
I take it you haven't read my post examining King's Dominion's long journey as a theme park, the extensive trip report I wrote of visiting Kings Dominion with my elderly grandparents for the first time,, or seen my video highlighting the park's beauty.
Kings Dominion is a wonderful park, and whereas Busch Gardens is forgetting what made and makes it so great, Kings Dominion is working hard to return to the greatness it once had. I am surprised you would come in here and say that this "isn't a big deal." It is a HUGE deal to the Virginia park lovers, to both Kings Dominion and Busch Gardens.
Alpenghöst said:
Banbury Cross has been at the park since the day it opened, Oktoberfest opened a year after. Meaning, Oktoberfest was a later "add-on" while Banbury Cross was the original hamlet. Also, outside of the Festhaus Oktoberfest is really a meshed together hamlet with very little connection, between attractions. But I guess it's all a matter of opinion, and this is all off topic.
That's still subjective, there is no sign in the park labeling which hamlet is their favorite.
I think that once Kings Dominion gets to "Hershey Park level", then we need to be more concerned. Keep in mind though, Kings Dominion has recently benefited from a better budget and CEO. Whereas Busch Gardens has been getting hardly any help from corporate. The Busch Gardens management team has no choice but to smile and act like everything is fine, and that Kings Dominion poses no threat(which was true not too long ago).
While I have to admit that I will love Busch Gardens/SeaWorld until end of time, even if they were gone, I still have to give the proper credit to both Cedar Fair and Kings Dominion for trying to rise from the mess that was caused from being owned by Paramount. It will not be an easy task. I can tell you that I believe they have a way to go before they meet the standards that Busch Gardens has/once had.
With all of that being said, they have a fresh new attitude, and that will take them very far. It feels like I'm cheating on my home-park when I say this, but "I am rooting for you, Kings Dominion. You can do it!"
Edit: I am amazed at how much has been posted since I have been typing this, so this may sound like an old subject by now.
While I have to admit that I will love Busch Gardens/SeaWorld until end of time, even if they were gone, I still have to give the proper credit to both Cedar Fair and Kings Dominion for trying to rise from the mess that was caused from being owned by Paramount. It will not be an easy task. I can tell you that I believe they have a way to go before they meet the standards that Busch Gardens has/once had.
With all of that being said, they have a fresh new attitude, and that will take them very far. It feels like I'm cheating on my home-park when I say this, but "I am rooting for you, Kings Dominion. You can do it!"
Edit: I am amazed at how much has been posted since I have been typing this, so this may sound like an old subject by now.
Alpenghöst said:
I just said in my post it's all a matter of opinion, and this is off topic. So really no need to keep arguing. Mods feel free to delete these.
You're trying to tell me that I can't give an opinion based on good friends and family that have given me reports about that park. Not to mention plenty of online reviews and posts on this forum that say much of the same things. My entire message was to say that it's easy to look great coming from the bottom, it's much harder to stay at the top. Take that how you'd like.
And if we're comparing apples to oranges, then why would BGW be worried about what KD is doing?
If you think I have some preconceived agenda, then you have it all wrong, I'm not that deep. Based on your post, you gave me the opportunity to make a point....so I did.
And if we're comparing apples to oranges, then why would BGW be worried about what KD is doing?
If you think I have some preconceived agenda, then you have it all wrong, I'm not that deep. Based on your post, you gave me the opportunity to make a point....so I did.
Alpenghöst said:
No I added that it was off topic, the "it's a matter of opinion," was there the whole time.
Many people say they think a movie is terrible just because a bunch of critics hate it. Does that make it terrible, possibly. It is still a legitimate opinion. You think it is terrible. that is what you think. Despite how you came to that conclusion that is what you think and that is all that matters. When people hear someone say it's bad, that does not make people want to go watch a movie or visit a park.
With that said, while your opinion may be valid, the process by which you come to your opinion gives it more or less credibility. You would trust a doctor over Google right? Well same thing applies. You would trust someone's opinion had they gone for themselves and not just from what they heard.
So really, I believe Matt's opinion is valid. However it is only slightly credible as he relies on the reviews of trusted family members who have seen and experienced the real life product and not just a concept.
Also, the negative opinions of London Rocks! are all still valid as well, yet I don't think those are as remotely credible as Matt's because the product simply just does not exist yet and therefore everyone is basing their opinion on an idea rather than reality.
You guys have responded so quickly that it's hard for me to keep up and know what to say
EDIT: I hate when people say apples to oranges because BGW and KD are both theme parks, same thing, end of story. What is comparing apples to oranges is the specifics and technicalities thrown out around every curve.
With that said, while your opinion may be valid, the process by which you come to your opinion gives it more or less credibility. You would trust a doctor over Google right? Well same thing applies. You would trust someone's opinion had they gone for themselves and not just from what they heard.
So really, I believe Matt's opinion is valid. However it is only slightly credible as he relies on the reviews of trusted family members who have seen and experienced the real life product and not just a concept.
Also, the negative opinions of London Rocks! are all still valid as well, yet I don't think those are as remotely credible as Matt's because the product simply just does not exist yet and therefore everyone is basing their opinion on an idea rather than reality.
You guys have responded so quickly that it's hard for me to keep up and know what to say
EDIT: I hate when people say apples to oranges because BGW and KD are both theme parks, same thing, end of story. What is comparing apples to oranges is the specifics and technicalities thrown out around every curve.
With the truth made, I will now hide them so we can continue actual discussion involving the 40th celebration.
I just wanted to say I changed some wording and fixed some grammar related mistakes in my previous post in this thread. In case anyone cared to know why it looks a bit different.
Soooo, How bout that celebration?
Joe said:
In no way was I trying to insult anyone with my comment, just giving my thought. I praise anyone who contributes park information to this site, it helps everyone here and others around the world learn more details about each park. I hope you, Evan and mwhinva continue to provide everyone with updates on KD, I'll continue to read and maybe this year I'll take a trip to get a first hand account of KD.
So, Blue Ice Cream and Candy Apples! Lets get excited and stop arguing only 32 days!
I have one question? Why does the BGW - KD discussion always end in this "either/or" frame of mind? Why not look at it as the best of both worlds/parks?
In the other thread that Evan linked earlier, Joe had a very nice writeup with his observations on Kings Dominion. I followed up a few entries later with my experience on reading/interpreting reviews about anything.
I have read reviews of Kings Dominion where the person gives a mostly negative opinion of the park. All generalities and no specifics. Then its Busch does this or Busch does that. Go to BGW! It makes me wonder if this is a review or some sort of reverse promotion for BGW by pounding down KD.
There are a certain group of reviewers that will never like KD because they expect a certain level of service/experience that the park can't deliver. Does that mean Kings Dominion deserves the reputation of "Dump" because it does not meet their level of expectations? Its like booking a cruise on Carnival Cruise Lines and expecting the service levels of sailing on the QE II.
Everyone has their own opinion and all the rights to go with it. If you don't like Kings Dominion because someone you respect and know says its bad, then so be it. But, for me, I need a bigger sample of opinions to influence me. In the end, I have to make that opinion based on my own experience.
As I wrote on the other thread, BGW and KD are both in the same business. But, with a different business model and operating philosophy. Some prefer the path BGW went down and others the path KD went down. Keep in mind that the years of Paramount control broke the continuity of the corporate business model and operations for Kings Dominion. Cedar Fair is the 3rd major owner with their own model/philosophy. But, I will say that they seem to be adopting some of the old business model and operating philosophy of Family Leisure / Taft / KECO; especially over the last 2-3 seasons. I feel it is still too early to see any results from going in that direction. Maybe by the 2016 or 2017 season there will be a clearer picture for KD.
I have been somewhat reserved about my concerns for BGW with the changeover of ownership from Busch, to Blackstone, to finally being a publicly traded company. But, I have sensed the slight change in direction of SEAS corporate by those who are patrons of BGW and your strong loyalty to the park by way of the BGW forums. To me, SEAS has to deliver to the shareholders; especially since Blackstone is no longer the majority stockholder. I hope that the SEAS leadership is strong enough to juggle the responsibilities to maintain the quality and reputation of the Sea World / Busch Gardens parks and giving the shareholders a good investment on their return. Shareholders can be a demanding/pushy bunch.
Below, is the video I posted before on the history of Kings Island. But, it is more than just about that park. It is the beginning of a new park chain that had Kings Island, Kings Dominion, and Canada's Wonderland built from scratch and them taking over Carowinds in the mid-1970's and California's Great America in the late-1980's. It should give you a good overview of how the park chain came about and their business model and operating philosophy. That being said, some are not going to care for this style of park and will always prefer a more themed level park such as BGW. To each his own.
In the other thread that Evan linked earlier, Joe had a very nice writeup with his observations on Kings Dominion. I followed up a few entries later with my experience on reading/interpreting reviews about anything.
I have read reviews of Kings Dominion where the person gives a mostly negative opinion of the park. All generalities and no specifics. Then its Busch does this or Busch does that. Go to BGW! It makes me wonder if this is a review or some sort of reverse promotion for BGW by pounding down KD.
There are a certain group of reviewers that will never like KD because they expect a certain level of service/experience that the park can't deliver. Does that mean Kings Dominion deserves the reputation of "Dump" because it does not meet their level of expectations? Its like booking a cruise on Carnival Cruise Lines and expecting the service levels of sailing on the QE II.
Everyone has their own opinion and all the rights to go with it. If you don't like Kings Dominion because someone you respect and know says its bad, then so be it. But, for me, I need a bigger sample of opinions to influence me. In the end, I have to make that opinion based on my own experience.
As I wrote on the other thread, BGW and KD are both in the same business. But, with a different business model and operating philosophy. Some prefer the path BGW went down and others the path KD went down. Keep in mind that the years of Paramount control broke the continuity of the corporate business model and operations for Kings Dominion. Cedar Fair is the 3rd major owner with their own model/philosophy. But, I will say that they seem to be adopting some of the old business model and operating philosophy of Family Leisure / Taft / KECO; especially over the last 2-3 seasons. I feel it is still too early to see any results from going in that direction. Maybe by the 2016 or 2017 season there will be a clearer picture for KD.
I have been somewhat reserved about my concerns for BGW with the changeover of ownership from Busch, to Blackstone, to finally being a publicly traded company. But, I have sensed the slight change in direction of SEAS corporate by those who are patrons of BGW and your strong loyalty to the park by way of the BGW forums. To me, SEAS has to deliver to the shareholders; especially since Blackstone is no longer the majority stockholder. I hope that the SEAS leadership is strong enough to juggle the responsibilities to maintain the quality and reputation of the Sea World / Busch Gardens parks and giving the shareholders a good investment on their return. Shareholders can be a demanding/pushy bunch.
Below, is the video I posted before on the history of Kings Island. But, it is more than just about that park. It is the beginning of a new park chain that had Kings Island, Kings Dominion, and Canada's Wonderland built from scratch and them taking over Carowinds in the mid-1970's and California's Great America in the late-1980's. It should give you a good overview of how the park chain came about and their business model and operating philosophy. That being said, some are not going to care for this style of park and will always prefer a more themed level park such as BGW. To each his own.
CastleOSullivan said:
You should be concerned at how quickly they're progressing to that level though, then take a gander at what BGW has been doing. It might not be May Day yet, but if this kind of progress continues it's going to happen very soon.