The State of the Park: Busch Gardens Williamsburg

[warfelg]

My thoughts about the whole food thing is this: BGW is a vacation destination whereas KD is just a destination. Living here in Williamsburg you see families coming here to spend a week on vacation. Sure, they do the history part but they always reserve a day or two to go to BGW and/or WCUSA. You take a family of 4 going to BGW for a day. They will spend in excess of $1000 and probably closer to $2000 just for food, drinks and souvenirs for a day's visit. They might think the food service is terrible and taste terrible, but I've overheard it often enough and seen them just shrug their shoulders and pay whatever the price may be. BGW management doesn't care about us passholders. To BGW management we don't spend the money that full on tourists do. Now, KD has to show quality to attract people to come to just that destination. Sure, they get some tourist traffic but not like BGW.

Do I think BGW will improve the food quality? Honestly? No. Just like most of the rest of you I have seen the quality and quantity go down, too. But as long as BGW can attract the tourist family for the day and spend the money that they do things aren't going to change. I'm ready for the critique now.

I’ve been saying this for a while. You do worse because pass holders end up at a really low dollar spend per visit. You stay bad because single day tickets continue to spend highly.

For me it goes all the way back to when Passes/Membership changes happened and there was the revelation people were paying mid-90’s prices in the mid-2010’s. People buying all-season dining plans and eating there 3-4-5 days a week.

Doesn’t excuse the quality - but makes you see why if single day passes are still spending, why pass holders don’t move the needle.

 

[EdK]

That was under pervious ownership though. One that had to sell because the parks weren’t profitable enough. There at 100% ways to do both themed food and be highly profitable by looking at ways you can use the same base products in multiple ways.

Just curious - when you said they had to sell are you referring to when InBev purchased AB and then InBev sold all the parks? I'm also curious about the statement "parks weren't profitable enough". What is the bar for a park being profitable - depending on management it may never be profitable enough. My understanding is that Seas is bringing in huge profits.

 

[bwick29]

I don't need 90s BGW dining back. I need, like, at minimum, 2017 BGW dining back. I don't even need them to roll back all the massively-outpacing-the-industry price increases.

At the end of the day, I just want a nice variety of medium-quality, thematically-appropriate food served to me warm with prompt and polite service at astronomical theme park prices.

Right now we get a bare bones selection of often-borderline-inedible food served cold and stale after a one hour wait by people who are often visibly angry that we exist despite the already astronomical prices.

This hits me square in the soul. Spot on accurate. 2017ish BGW dining was perfectly fine and we don't need to look much further than that to find an appropriate level of quality/service. Staffing is a huge concern in multiple ways. Obviously low staffing increases wait times, but when the few existing staff members move at speeds akin to evolution and have the attitude of a charging hippo, it makes the underwhelming food even less worth the headache. We used to scrape the plates in Festhaus clean. Now I leave uneaten/inedible food left when I toss the trash and the wife rarely even wants to eat there. Better off just filling up on pretzels and the newly-frozen fries at Le Frites.

I just counted some of KDs offerings:

6 places serve some variety of pizza. I would easily bet on the dough, sauce, cheese, even majority of the toppings is the exact same - the difference is some have signature styles you can’t get at the other.

Same goes for the burgers. Sausages/hot dogs.

Heck I would bet that the base of a majority of the sides are even the same with one or two flavor changes happening to make it taste unique to that eatery.

Pizza count aside, I think this is quite a stretch. Taking the Soak City and snack-only (Boardwalk Fries, Ice Cream, Pretzels, etc.) locations out of contention, we're left with the only possible overlap happening between Border Burrito/Taco Shack and Victoria's Pizza/Coke Pizza Parlor. Everything else appears to be unique in some/most capacity. One burger place is frozen patties, while the other says never-frozen. One chicken place is hand-breaded, while the other is not. There are multiple different types of fries around the park. No entree or side overlap between the "signature" locations. BGW can do the same with their major eateries being full, unique menus and their mid-tier/smaller stands having some overlap, being more value-oriented, and simply serving more traditional basket-style options like tendies and sandos.

You could do it with Mac and cheese where Trappers smokes it, Festhaus does a beer cheese, Marco Polos does a parm with pan fried chicken version. You can do that with chicken too with it prepared differently.

This is a good idea, even if the only actual overlap is the pasta. Rotate in the Mac-of-the-month. Sell me a Mac & Cheese tasting tour!

Sorry I messed that up. But yes I’m basing my core on that based on my experience on F&B experience. So three places with pizza - you honestly don’t think the base of that or other doughs used in the park are the exact same doughs?

Three pizza places. Victoria's, Coke Pizza Parlor, and Pizza Paradise. One is flatbread so that's a different dough already. The other two may be shared. I'll take a peek this weekend and try to determine if they're the same pie. Had a bite of the kid's slice from Victoria's and it's familiar enough that I'll have him eat at the Coke one this weekend if he wants pizza again..... for science!

 

[warfelg]

Just curious - when you said they had to sell are you referring to when InBev purchased AB and then InBev sold all the parks? I'm also curious about the statement "parks weren't profitable enough". What is the bar for a park being profitable - depending on management it may never be profitable enough. My understanding is that Seas is bringing in huge profits.

Well that’s dependent on who’s running it. Let’s say to AB running the parks for minimal profit or even a loss. They may not care because it’s good for their brand as it acts as a promotional tool.

Then InBev comes in, cares little for the parks, looks at just how can we make the AB brand more profitable, hey let’s cut the parks loose.

Now I’ll add, I did clarify later that this is all a possibility and no way to know for sure. But often companies who dump a branch of their business do so because it’s not profitable.

This hits me square in the soul. Spot on accurate. 2017ish BGW dining was perfectly fine and we don't need to look much further than that to find an appropriate level of quality/service. Staffing is a huge concern in multiple ways. Obviously low staffing increases wait times, but when the few existing staff members move at speeds akin to evolution and have the attitude of a charging hippo, it makes the underwhelming food even less worth the headache. We used to scrape the plates in Festhaus clean. Now I leave uneaten/inedible food left when I toss the trash and the wife rarely even wants to eat there. Better off just filling up on pretzels and the newly-frozen fries at Le Frites.


Pizza count aside, I think this is quite a stretch. Taking the Soak City and snack-only (Boardwalk Fries, Ice Cream, Pretzels, etc.) locations out of contention, we're left with the only possible overlap happening between Border Burrito/Taco Shack and Victoria's Pizza/Coke Pizza Parlor. Everything else appears to be unique in some/most capacity. One burger place is frozen patties, while the other says never-frozen. One chicken place is hand-breaded, while the other is not. There are multiple different types of fries around the park. No entree or side overlap between the "signature" locations. BGW can do the same with their major eateries being full, unique menus and their mid-tier/smaller stands having some overlap, being more value-oriented, and simply serving more traditional basket-style options like tendies and sandos.


This is a good idea, even if the only actual overlap is the pasta. Rotate in the Mac-of-the-month. Sell me a Mac & Cheese tasting tour!



Three pizza places. Victoria's, Coke Pizza Parlor, and Pizza Paradise. One is flatbread so that's a different dough already. The other two may be shared. I'll take a peek this weekend and try to determine if they're the same pie. Had a bite of the kid's slice from Victoria's and it's familiar enough that I'll have him eat at the Coke one this weekend if he wants pizza again..... for science!

Fair retort, but I would say even if the flatbread is significantly different, it’s likely used in some capacity elsewhere.

I would add - just because something appears to be unique doesn’t mean it actually is.

 

[EdK]

Well that’s dependent on who’s running it. Let’s say to AB running the parks for minimal profit or even a loss. They may not care because it’s good for their brand as it acts as a promotional tool.

Then InBev comes in, cares little for the parks, looks at just how can we make the AB brand more profitable, hey let’s cut the parks loose.

Now I’ll add, I did clarify later that this is all a possibility and no way to know for sure. But often companies who dump a branch of their business do so because it’s not profitable.

My understanding was InBev sold the parks because they didn't want to manage or run them. The parks were sold to Blackstone whose portfolio included some amusement parks in Europe. Then SEAS was created. Feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong. Basically I don't think it had anything to do with profitability. Blackfish didn't come out until 2013 and that definitely had an impact on profitability but the parks had already been sold.

 

[Jonesta6]

Just curious - when you said they had to sell are you referring to when InBev purchased AB and then InBev sold all the parks? I'm also curious about the statement "parks weren't profitable enough". What is the bar for a park being profitable - depending on management it may never be profitable enough. My understanding is that Seas is bringing in huge profits.

Based on what I've read about InBev's motives, they are all about profits and reducing any shred of what could be considered waste. This could be seen right away in how they gutted the opulence out of headquarters in favor of what could be considered spartan offices, because it's cheaper and the money can go back into making them profits.

They also eliminated anything that wasn't part of the core beverage business - parks may have made profits, but they take a whole lot of experience InBev didn't have nor cared to gain to continue operating at a profit.

Given they had spent a considerable amount just to determine the optimal quantity of ingredients in a beverage recipe for maximizing profits while also pairing it with good marketing... And somehow usually hitting their marks on flavor for what their ideal end product is supposed to be... The complexities of managing any ancillary business lines would likely take away too many resources from the core business they purchased.

 

[EdK]

My biggest complaint is the beer prices. I can stomach $12 beers but $15 for 12 ounces is ridiculous. It looks like it's gotten even more expensive. We've had to give up eating at the park and now we have to give up drinking as well. This just isn't fun anymore.

 

[warfelg]

My understanding was InBev sold the parks because they didn't want to manage or run them. The parks were sold to Blackstone whose portfolio included some amusement parks in Europe. Then SEAS was created. Feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong. Basically I don't think it had anything to do with profitability. Blackfish didn't come out until 2013 and that definitely had an impact on profitability but the parks had already been sold.

We'll likely never know the full truth on why InBev sold unless you know someone who was high enough and worked with them at the time.

 

[Jonesta6]

My main source was the Busch family biography, plus a few news articles that have appeared over time.

 

[bwick29]

My biggest complaint is the beer prices. I can stomach $12 beers but $15 for 12 ounces is ridiculous. It looks like it's gotten even more expensive. We've had to give up eating at the park and now we have to give up drinking as well. This just isn't fun anymore.

Preach.

Aside from the mystery fee, this feels like the biggest squeeze in the whole park. Wanna charge me $15+ for a drink? Make real cocktails. Want to only pour draft beers or pre-mixed/frozen drinks? $10-$12 is about the limit I can stomach and they damn well better be 16-20oz (respectively).

Also, how does a place named Busch Gardens not have a proper outdoor beer garden/bar area?

 

[Jonesta6]

Technically Das Festhaus is supposed to serve that function as a 'replica' German beer hall, though I generally agree that a dedicated outdoor space would be good.

My guess is between the lack of interest based on who owns the park and that such a space won't likely be as marketable as an attraction or some kind of profit center such as F&B stalls (regardless if they're ever open or properly staffed), merch, or games.

 

[bwick29]

I think the space next to Grogan's would work well. The name eludes me at the moment. It gets used for F&W, but other than that, would be a good location to help offset the length of Grogan's line, has shade, near live music shows, has barriers that already delineate the space from the surrounding areas.

This is just one of the small, cheap things that can both expand the revenue opportunities for the park while also expanding offerings for the guests.... as long as the damn beer prices get kept in check.

 

[Mushroom]

Well that’s dependent on who’s running it. Let’s say to AB running the parks for minimal profit or even a loss. They may not care because it’s good for their brand as it acts as a promotional tool.

Then InBev comes in, cares little for the parks, looks at just how can we make the AB brand more profitable, hey let’s cut the parks loose.

Now I’ll add, I did clarify later that this is all a possibility and no way to know for sure. But often companies who dump a branch of their business do so because it’s not profitable.

InBev's sale of the theme park division isn't evidence that the parks weren't profitable. Companies sell (or spin off) profitable divisions all the time. See: Altria selling Kraft, Reynolds selling Nabisco, eBay selling PayPal, etc. In many cases, selling just allows a large corporation to focus on their core competencies. In InBev's case, they bought AB for their beer companies, and sold off the parks since they wanted to focus on the beer business, not the theme park business. It's a huge logical leap to suggest that because InBev sold the parks, the parks must not have been profitable.

As others have pointed out, it seems like the real issue is that nothing is profitable enough to satisfy SEAS right now and that they're determined to squeeze every possible dollar out of their parks.

Fair retort, but I would say even if the flatbread is significantly different, it’s likely used in some capacity elsewhere.

I can think of at least 3 places at BGW that serve pizza too (at least, when all of BGW's restaurants are actually open) -- the same number as KD. Are you suggesting that BGW is using different bases at each pizza place? If not, I don't see how this shows that KD relies on "common bases" any more than BGW does right now.

 

[rvadude85]

In addition to all the great points above as we think about the "state of the park" more broadly which applies to Culinary and other departments I think there's still one other factor that isn't getting mentioned as much anymore. Recalling with the pandemic in 2020 and SEAS decision to almost immediately furlough without pay most of it's employees chain wide resulted in a lot of tenured employees including some in leadership positions either leaving the business entirely and/or retiring early. BGW lost a significant amount of instructional knowledge during this time. In Culinary a long time leader (Franz) left the company, he had been at the park since the AB days from my understanding and was known to have high standards for culinary offerings. Does that factor explain the ridiculous $15 price + 5% surcharge on beers right now, no.

But I do think the loss of tenured leaders like the one I mentioned and the decision SEAS made back then to furlough most of it's employees during 2020 unlike Cedar Fair, has had a negative effect on the guest experience at the park that still continues to this day.

Bottom Line- the park's current business model with sky high prices on food with lower quality, small proportions, less staffing, selling a dinning plan that is increasingly perceived as a rip off is not a sustainable business model. In fact, if food offerings are like last year I'd argue that you have more and more guests spending less time in the park as they opt to skip expensive meals with long lines in lieu of eating and spending OUTSIDE the park. I'd bet if you talk to nearby restaurants and bars to BGW they are probably seeing increased business due to this.

Anyways that's my two cents.

 

[rswashdc]

My biggest complaint is the beer prices. I can stomach $12 beers but $15 for 12 ounces is ridiculous. It looks like it's gotten even more expensive. We've had to give up eating at the park and now we have to give up drinking as well. This just isn't fun anymore.

I’m generally ok with drinks pricing that discourages drunkenness. Price it where a guest buys 1 or 2 max is a good balance. However at a higher price point it should be a premium quality item.

 

[bwick29]

I’m generally ok with drinks pricing that discourages drunkenness. Price it where a guest buys 1 or 2 max is a good balance. However at a higher price point it should be a premium quality item.

If you're worried about over-consumption, train your staff to follow the law and not over-serve. Additionally, it would be better to attempt (won't work) to impose a per-person limit than to just crank the price up to squeeze people out of buying them. Budget-minded guests won't have the option to enjoy a beer or two, while the cash-flush will still be as obnoxiously drunk as ever. These aren't Quick Queues. There aren't a "limited amount" sold per day with price fluctuations to reflect that.

I sat here trying to figure out other alternatives that wouldn't be ridiculous. Card to limit time between beer purchases. Wristband. Season Pass benefits. Etc. Nothing works better than training your staff to not over-serve.

 

[warfelg]

If you're worried about over-consumption, train your staff to follow the law and not over-serve. Additionally, it would be better to attempt (won't work) to impose a per-person limit than to just crank the price up to squeeze people out of buying them. Budget-minded guests won't have the option to enjoy a beer or two, while the cash-flush will still be as obnoxiously drunk as ever. These aren't Quick Queues. There aren't a "limited amount" sold per day with price fluctuations to reflect that.

I sat here trying to figure out other alternatives that wouldn't be ridiculous. Card to limit time between beer purchases. Wristband. Season Pass benefits. Etc. Nothing works better than training your staff to not over-serve.

I would hope that they do that anyways, but I feel that falls just as much on security. I think it’s easy to grab two beers, go out walking around and not look “over-served” when you bought them but get that way as you consume them. Additionally it’s easy to spot at a bar when it’s a controlled smaller group.

 

[Rothbury]

Just curious. Does anybody know since BGW is going to be open daily through Apr 23 if it will be a full opening or one of their half-assed attempts with "select" rides and restaurants open? If they can't open everything during the week, there was no sense in opening at all. I'm sure admission prices didn't drop to reflect a park not entirely open.

 

[Vigil]

There seem to be new policies this year that I've now noticed a few times. First, they are making people wear shoes on Apollo's Chariot. When did that start? I know this is a thing at other chains with the same type of ride, but Busch never cared. Several different people were getting (rightfully) confused why they were being told to wear loose shoes while being told to remove every other loose article.

The second, and far more ridiculous, policy is twice now I've seen employees tell kids who have gone under the bars in the lines to go back and walk around. Mind you, it's not like they were going under the bars and skipping other people, just going under the bars instead of walking all the say around as small kids are wont to do. A few weeks ago a woman told a kid in line for Loch Ness to go back and walk around and even at the time I thought it was a bit stupid and power-trippy.

Today was another level: an employee called out over the intercom for a group of kids to go back to the beginning of the Finnegan's Flyer line and walk through it normally after they went under the bars or they wouldn't be allowed to ride. They just stood there and said no and asked why. The employee just kept repeating that "it was the policy." To which they continued to ask why. To be honest, good for them. I'm not often agreeing with teenagers nowadays, but that was just moronic. If it's a safety thing, then tell them to please walked around next time. Making people go back solves nothing, makes the employees look extremely petty, and it's just stupid. Kids go under the bars. They have for years. I did it. Everyone has. Like suddenly "it's just the policy?" It's a stupid policy.

 

[mikes]

There seem to be new policies this year that I've now noticed a few times. First, they are making people wear shoes on Apollo's Chariot. When did that start? I know this is a thing at other chains with the same type of ride, but Busch never cared. Several different people were getting (rightfully) confused why they were being told to wear loose shoes while being told to remove every other loose article.

The second, and far more ridiculous, policy is twice now I've seen employees tell kids who have gone under the bars in the lines to go back and walk around. Mind you, it's not like they were going under the bars and skipping other people, just going under the bars instead of walking all the say around as small kids are wont to do. A few weeks ago a woman told a kid in line for Loch Ness to go back and walk around and even at the time I thought it was a bit stupid and power-trippy.

Today was another level: an employee called out over the intercom for a group of kids to go back to the beginning of the Finnegan's Flyer line and walk through it normally after they went under the bars or they wouldn't be allowed to ride. They just stood there and said no and asked why. The employee just kept repeating that "it was the policy." To which they continued to ask why. To be honest, good for them. I'm not often agreeing with teenagers nowadays, but that was just moronic. If it's a safety thing, then tell them to please walked around next time. Making people go back solves nothing, makes the employees look extremely petty, and it's just stupid. Kids go under the bars. They have for years. I did it. Everyone has. Like suddenly "it's just the policy?" It's a stupid policy.

Meh, kids need to learn to follow rules. I've had issues where kids did jump the line by doing exactly what you witnessed. Maybe it was intentional, maybe they didn't realize there were others walking the queue as you should, I don't know.

Good on these employees for giving a damn.

Signed grumpy middle aged man