No one is denying that the staffing environment is rough—just that SEAS is actively, willfully deciding to ignore the problem when other, cheaper parks are doing things to actually cope with the environment they find themselves in.
The State of the Park: Busch Gardens Williamsburg
- Thread starter CoasterTalkBob
- Start date
My point originally was it’s not a SEAS unique problem. Just tired of thing being talked like they are the only place doing it. The season I brought up SFA is because at least SEAS is trying to hire.
I don’t think anyone here was claiming it’s a SEAS unique problem.
The article raises very fair points but I feel like it looks at it through the glasses of career oriented jobs while the majority of theme park employees are filled by high school and college students, retirees, or others who want something to do to fill a gap. The overwhelming majority of people applying at parks don't have an intent on being there for more than 3 or 4 years in most cases. I think the dynamics here are different. To be clear, a lot of what the article is pointing out still does apply but a good bit of that is stuff that I was saying.Because that whole part of the jobs economy is down. I’m not saying BGW can’t be better, they should.
This article highlights where I’m coming from:
Understanding America’s Labor Shortage
Workforce participation remains below pre-pandemic levels. We are missing 1.7 million Americans from the workforce compared to February of 2020.www.uschamber.com
Those staying home to care for children is a contributing factor but when you look at high school and college this isn't a huge demographic. Those that are saying their industry was still suffering clearly aren't in the park industry so that demographic is completely irrelevant because they aren't getting jobs because they aren't in their field. Carrying on, covid-19 may still be an impact though I think that's dwindling in these local areas and those focused on acquiring new skills are, again, not really those that are in the major demographic for park employees..... that leaves us with the pay being too low. Later in the article it also does address that people are looking for free time with their families which is a hugely important thing and something that America had been severely missing but that boils down to treating your employees fairly. There was the other section that focused on savings which is, again, a contributing factor but one that I don't think really affects the park employee demographic as a whole. As for retirees, I think that actually can increase the availability of park employees since it's a common thing that retirees will do.
I want to be clear -- I'm not trying to trivialize the fact that there are struggles because there absolutely are. I just feel that when it comes to parks that are seasonal and generally have the majority of their workforce in non-career positions it's not the same thing as year round companies looking for ongoing employment. In this case I think it really is a lot more in SF and SEAS control than it is the manufacturing plant down the road or the accounting firm across the street. I also think that Cedar Fair is clearly showing that things are different for parks.
It certainly isn't a unique problem with SEAS, but SEAS seems to be uniquely uninterested in any solution that would make working for them more enticing.
I certainly never meant to imply it's something that is just SEAS..... In fact, I even eluded to that fact when I said "everyone else is effing it up so cut them some slack"
The only thing that I will put on SEAS that I won't on others is that they didn't just stand by and not deal with the problem but they actually made the problem worse by the lay-off and rehire process.
Either way, I can't really give a defense to any company who has the ability to do better and just doesn't because of greed -- and that's not at all SEAS specific. If you are a company that is trying then that's a different story but neither SF or SEAS is paying any more and from all I've seen they've actually been treating their employees worse.
That honestly doesn’t even feel unique to me at all. My apartment just have 2/3 lifeguards leave for college and their answer was to just close the pool rather than try anything. Maintenance is down to 2 days a week and off hour emergency at a 10% fee due to being short staffed. Their answer was “too hard to hire and too expensive” so they are waiting for transfers and temp agencies to help.
Oh yeah, I was mostly refering the SEAS as compared to the other major chains, ESP with what I've seen down here in Florida.
I haven’t been to any CF parks this year but the others I’ve been to felt like the same experience I got at 2 SEAS parks. I guess that’s why I’m not as up in arms about it. Only park I had a good time at this year was Diggerland.
I’m gonna add: for all the talk prepandemic about how bad SEAS financials were should we really be all that shocked that the new CEO is pushing a cash culture?
The "cash culture" tosses long term success out the window in favor of short term quarterly wins. This is the preferred route for high turnover rate CEOs and short term investors since it is simple and almost guarantees return in the short term. It is effectively short selling someone's "reputation points" for dollars, when eventually that hard earned reputation will go out the window. SF is in a situation where they need to up their quality to regain reputation but they don't have enough reputation in the bank to justify the pricing necessary to fund the cost to increase reputation. SEAS is staring down the barrel of a similar gun in 5-10 years if they continue selling their reputation down the river for these profits now.
I'm only shocked about how hard they have doubled down on the method because it is fundamental business operations, this isn't an advanced concept. There are multiple examples of this exact business strategy being the demise of many large companies even as recently as the past 20 years. I would assume a company as large as this would recognize the timetable and rotation necessary to balance both and ensure a long term strategy, but I guess the extremely high turnover rate at CEO shows exactly why this balance cannot be struck. There is no corporate consistency to be able to put together a smart and effective business plan, so now people see it as an area to boast some successful quarters and get out before the ship sinks.
I'm only shocked about how hard they have doubled down on the method because it is fundamental business operations, this isn't an advanced concept. There are multiple examples of this exact business strategy being the demise of many large companies even as recently as the past 20 years. I would assume a company as large as this would recognize the timetable and rotation necessary to balance both and ensure a long term strategy, but I guess the extremely high turnover rate at CEO shows exactly why this balance cannot be struck. There is no corporate consistency to be able to put together a smart and effective business plan, so now people see it as an area to boast some successful quarters and get out before the ship sinks.
I noticed a lot of employees with accents today. Did Busch do a lot of outsourcing for the summer?
Yea, just like every amusement park does. Exchange students/adults. They won’t complain about the money.
Sell BGW. Sell it quick before it gets worse. ANY other company but SIX could purchase the park and make DRASTIC improvements. Visited today. Membership immediately cancelled. Insane how freaking bad this park is ran these days. Merlin, Hershend, Palace, MGM, Hershey… Anybody.
I’m ready for the eye roll emojis. SEAS has hit rock bottom with how they manage this park. So much wrong.
Good luck to those visiting…
*end rant*
I’m ready for the eye roll emojis. SEAS has hit rock bottom with how they manage this park. So much wrong.
Good luck to those visiting…
*end rant*
Definitely don't disagree @RollyCoaster, but I'd be curious to hear more about your experience. Same pain points as most other people are experiencing? Ops, cleaniness, employee quality, etc?
I visited 2 weeks ago and my only issue was a bad sewage smell on the way out, just past the animal smells. One show + rides, no time for spending.
Just a question for everyone unhappy with the state of the park:
What is the benchmark here?
I've seen ops complaints, and as far as speed it's no different than my first visit in 2003.
I've seen maintenance complaints, and I don't think I've been to a park where everything is working great as once.
I've seen complaints about prices, and this one I somewhat get.
I've seen theme elements complaints, which overall there's still a lot of parks not up to BGW's level.
Now, I know someone's going to just on the things I just said, but I just want to know the level that's seen as acceptable here. Sometimes I do get the feeling is this idealized level of BGW that would be a struggle to reach the level. Sometimes I don't feel it's all that high of a bar.
And for the 100th time from me, I do thing BGW/SEAS should be better, but to me it slipped form a top tier experience to about average. And to give you the flip, I think KD went from bottom tier to just below average to me. And to give some reference I call Hershey about average. I think some of the things that are being brought up, my view vs others, is the difference between someone who doesn't visit often that didn't grow up with the park vs someone who's grown up with the park and visits it regularly.
What is the benchmark here?
I've seen ops complaints, and as far as speed it's no different than my first visit in 2003.
I've seen maintenance complaints, and I don't think I've been to a park where everything is working great as once.
I've seen complaints about prices, and this one I somewhat get.
I've seen theme elements complaints, which overall there's still a lot of parks not up to BGW's level.
Now, I know someone's going to just on the things I just said, but I just want to know the level that's seen as acceptable here. Sometimes I do get the feeling is this idealized level of BGW that would be a struggle to reach the level. Sometimes I don't feel it's all that high of a bar.
And for the 100th time from me, I do thing BGW/SEAS should be better, but to me it slipped form a top tier experience to about average. And to give you the flip, I think KD went from bottom tier to just below average to me. And to give some reference I call Hershey about average. I think some of the things that are being brought up, my view vs others, is the difference between someone who doesn't visit often that didn't grow up with the park vs someone who's grown up with the park and visits it regularly.
Anti-Consumer practices. Since 2021 they made a big shift in how they handle things and I'm fed up. Cancelling stein club in the middle of memberships. Removing bins at BGT and disallowing drink cups in line. Reducing member discounts without notice on passes that are already sold. Surcharges.
This is in addition to the policies they have that I wouldn't consider anti-consumer such as raising prices for memberships, merchandise, decline in quality for food festivals along with increases in price, etc.
This is in addition to the policies they have that I wouldn't consider anti-consumer such as raising prices for memberships, merchandise, decline in quality for food festivals along with increases in price, etc.
So I’m just curious @Fur Dozy …how is no bins at rides and no cuts anti-consumer? Because I think the other way in that it’s safety driven to reduce loose article accidents.
I’ll agree on the surcharge. Somewhat on the stein club (I’m fine with it cancelled but should have been a no renewal thing) because I think like SF with dining passes they were loosing much more than they were hoping to.
I’ll disagree on the changing discounts on the basis of the contract does say it can be changed at any time, however in consumer defense, the number of grandfathered and added benefits through pass to member change, EZPay through changes, and COVID benefits has made this whole thing a mess as to what you should get.
I’ll agree on the surcharge. Somewhat on the stein club (I’m fine with it cancelled but should have been a no renewal thing) because I think like SF with dining passes they were loosing much more than they were hoping to.
I’ll disagree on the changing discounts on the basis of the contract does say it can be changed at any time, however in consumer defense, the number of grandfathered and added benefits through pass to member change, EZPay through changes, and COVID benefits has made this whole thing a mess as to what you should get.
You discount the relevance of how BGW used to operate, and I tend to disagree with you there.
The point isn’t how BGW (and SEAS) operates compared to a random set of other small parks (and I think Dollywood, not anything in Pennsylvania, is a fair comparison for a regional theme park). The point is how it (they) is now operating compared to the standard it set for itself for decades. There is a difference between nostalgia and established standards.
The simple fact is that BGW (for whatever reason) is cutting corners across the board, leading to a dramatic and noticeable downgrade in guest experience. When that is combined with an equally dramatic and noticeable increases in costs, the result is the frustration, disgust, disengagement being expressed here.
Kings Dominion’s concurrent increase in quality is an interesting, but largely irrelevant point. In fact, a lot of BGW members never go to KD. BGW is failing against itself, not the park on the other side of Richmond.
And before anyone gets upset, I’m not criticizing any park in PA. I’m just saying that I think a theme park is a better bar than amusement parks. PA has great parks, they are just a different subset of the industry.