The State of the Park: Busch Gardens Williamsburg

[warfelg]

You discount the relevance of how BGW used to operate, and I tend to disagree with you there.

The point isn’t how BGW (and SEAS) operates compared to a random set of other small parks (and I think Dollywood, not anything in Pennsylvania, is a fair comparison for a regional theme park). The point is how it (they) is now operating compared to the standard it set for itself for decades. There is a difference between nostalgia and established standards.

The simple fact is that BGW (for whatever reason) is cutting corners across the board, leading to a dramatic and noticeable downgrade in guest experience. When that is combined with an equally dramatic and noticeable increases in costs, the result is the frustration, disgust, disengagement being expressed here.

Kings Dominion’s concurrent increase in quality is an interesting, but largely irrelevant point. In fact, a lot of BGW members never go to KD. BGW is failing against itself, not the park on the other side of Richmond.

And before anyone gets upset, I’m not criticizing any park in PA. I’m just saying that I think a theme park is a better bar than amusement parks. PA has great parks, they are just a different subset of the industry.

So this is why I’m posing this question. I don’t hold BGW in the same reverence from, what, 2-3 ownership groups ago.

And in that regard though it helps me understand. I love pre-Boardwalk HP much better than post-Boardwalk HP. Caused the park to become overcrowded, over priced, and a much less pleasant place for me. But people who come to HP now that didn’t grow up with it like I did think it’s fine and normal.

I became a member at BGW in 2017-2021 (moved away) so that kinda frames what I’ve seen from BGW.

 

[rswashdc]

Just a question for everyone unhappy with the state of the park:

What is the benchmark here?

I've seen ops complaints, and as far as speed it's no different than my first visit in 2003.
I've seen maintenance complaints, and I don't think I've been to a park where everything is working great as once.
I've seen complaints about prices, and this one I somewhat get.
I've seen theme elements complaints, which overall there's still a lot of parks not up to BGW's level.

Now, I know someone's going to just on the things I just said, but I just want to know the level that's seen as acceptable here. Sometimes I do get the feeling is this idealized level of BGW that would be a struggle to reach the level. Sometimes I don't feel it's all that high of a bar.

And for the 100th time from me, I do thing BGW/SEAS should be better, but to me it slipped form a top tier experience to about average. And to give you the flip, I think KD went from bottom tier to just below average to me. And to give some reference I call Hershey about average. I think some of the things that are being brought up, my view vs others, is the difference between someone who doesn't visit often that didn't grow up with the park vs someone who's grown up with the park and visits it regularly.

My main issue is the inconsistency of the experience from visit to visit. Last visit we did for Food and Wine was largely great, but other prior visits have had issues ranging from hardly any food place being open, large amounts of rides and shops being closed, and crazy lines in non attraction areas such as guest services or parking.

For us to go to BGW requires driving by KD, and KD has upped its product so much the last couple years, I can hardly see much reason to do it outside of some special events going on at BGW. I can’t think of a single bad outing at KD post Covid, and that includes some visits on very busy Saturdays during Haunt, whereas BGW we’ve had some real lackluster experiences at times.

 

[horsesboy]

So here my take. It's very much a current SEA culture and philosophy issue in my opinion. I purchased my first BGW pass in 2011 and have had one ever since. Prices continue to go up while service and my experience as a guest continue to degrade. They just don't seem as a company think that they need to work for my dollar. The most glaring example of this was that I reached out in both social media and by email to the park and even to SEA's corporate Twitter account detailing my displeasure with the events around the refusal to honor I one day old $10 Busch Bucks. Including the details of how long I had been a customer and the money that I was considering spending but wasn't at the time because of the treatment that I had received which was considerably more then the $10 voucher. To date the only response I have received was a automated email reply that told me they would be in touch within 5 days. I take a fall trip every year and had been considering upgrading my pass to platinum and doing Florida this year instead I spent more money adding perks to my CF pass cause I have decided to give them more business in the rest of 2022 and 2023.

 

[Celticdog]

BG is consistently inconsistent. Every visit is an adventure. I never know what I might experience. I go with a positive outlook, but sometimes it falls flat. I'm looking at you F&W festival. I will be honest and state the past several Sundays have been good visits, however I never went over to Italy.

 

[I64 Trekker]

So here my take. It's very much a current SEA culture and philosophy issue in my opinion. I purchased my first BGW pass in 2011 and have had one ever since. Prices continue to go up while service and my experience as a guest continue to degrade. They just don't seem as a company think that they need to work for my dollar. The most glaring example of this was that I reached out in both social media and by email to the park and even to SEA's corporate Twitter account detailing my displeasure with the events around the refusal to honor I one day old $10 Busch Bucks. Including the details of how long I had been a customer and the money that I was considering spending but wasn't at the time because of the treatment that I had received which was considerably more then the $10 voucher. To date the only response I have received was a automated email reply that told me they would be in touch within 5 days. I take a fall trip every year and had been considering upgrading my pass to platinum and doing Florida this year instead I spent more money adding perks to my CF pass cause I have decided to give them more business in the rest of 2022 and 2023.

I hear you! We moved to Virginia in 2010 and I got my first BGW pass in 2012 when our son turned 2, and we have been going to BGW ever since. Fast forward to now, with today being was my first visit ever to Kings Dominion, and we now have 2023 CF platinum passes.

While Kings Dominion isn't Busch Gardens, and likely doesn't aspire to be, they certainly did a heck of a better job with theming for Tumbili than Busch Gardens did with Pantheon. And I didn't have to read fine print at Kings Dominion today about added surcharges when buying food or merchandise.

Hopefully SEAS rights the ship, and perhaps it takes money getting spent by loyal customers elsewhere to get them to do that.

 

[warfelg]

So the surcharges comment gives me a follow up questions:

If inflation caused cost problems for the company would you rather see:
Surcharge that could be temporary.
Cost increase with same portion sizes.
Smaller portions with the same cost.

With the surcharge being out to one thing would you rather see:
Same front facing staff with better food and merchandise.
Same quality food and merchandise but better quality guest facing staff.

 

[CoasterTalkBob]

Headlining all of the issues and summarizing the experience: You absolutely don't get anywhere near what you pay for.

It started with the games played with memberships where they took benefits away from us, upgraded everyone else, and overloaded the benefits that we did have rendering them nowhere near the value that they once were. I paid for a product described and in the middle of my term I was given a very different product that didn't remotely resemble what I paid for. It even went a step worse when they used Covid 19 as a disguise to create a product I had to pay for out of a product that was free with my membership (parking in the England lot, employee entrance)..... What infuriated me most of all about that is I was fine when they explained that they had to end that perk because of the pandemic but weeks later when I found out that was all a lie and they offered to let me park in that lot again for a $40 upcharge that was one of the most infuriating moments of my entire life of park experiences. Then they went on to require lockers at a rate of $5 a day, moveable..... and each subsequent month it went up another dollar until there were piles of stickers you could visibly see placed over one another on the signs..... Bullshit to the safety argument -- there are DECADES of parks everywhere using bins without an issue. This is a money making opportunity and yet another way to nickel and dime someone who is already paying a far premium price in comparison to any other park chain.

It doesn't stop with all of that..... while my costs are going up for both my membership and in-park pricing the park is loosing everything that made it BGW. Verbolten is a shit show of it's former self and there is absolutely no concern at all about what that experience is like to the guest. Lines start getting longer everywhere..... then food quality starts plummeting. Suddenly some of my favorite foods are ones that I just have no desire to eat anymore..... and it just kept getting worse and worse. Then, not only are lines long but now they start closing locations down -- this is a level that not even budget park Six Flags never really started doing. In order to find something to eat you have to walk past all of the attractions you were hoping to hit on the way to get food and then back track rendering that easy "circle" design of the park completely useless......

Then the grand daddy of them all.... the day I went to finally ride Pantheon and I rode 3 rides the entire day because absolutely EVERYTHING was closed (including Pantheon). This was my "free day" for being a loyal member through the years that I was supposed to ride Pantheon but couldn't and it still cost me way more money than I wanted to spend..... including gas it was probably around $80 or more that I spent that day to basically do nothing but stand in the sun and wait for something to open..... then to watch maintenance hand Pantheon back to the ops and the ops sit and do nothing the last half hour so they could avoid opening the ride...... whatever..... I probably wouldn't be back but Guest services sealed that fate when they told me they'd give me another free ticket via email and absolutely nothing happened.....

This is just an overview as I am leaving a lot of minor things that had also built up over the years..... This park just isn't worth the price at all....

 

[Rothbury]

I think my biggest issue now is with Customer Service. Or lack of it. Depending on who you talk with and when, you get different answers to the same question. Like Horseboy when they said he could talk to somebody in Jamaica. I was grossly mislead when we upgraded our memberships a year or so ago. We ended up paying for 2 levels of membership each because they claimed they couldn't transfer our dining plan to an upgraded membership. I know most people go to BGW for the rollercoasters and other rides. At 71 I had to give up as they cause me to have vertigo. I know, but trust me one of these days you'll see what I'm talking about. Now we go for the scenery and just to get away from the house. When I see all of the capital improvements going to more rollercoasters it doesn't do a thing for me. As for food, I live close enough that we just don't eat there anymore. Went last week, walked to Festa Italia for our lanyards and watched the Illuminate show and left. Total money spent = $0. Don't even get me started with the cost of membership when they just offered a fun card that would admit you for most of next year. We live on retirement so every price increase, whether it be for food, admission or drinks impacts our visit.

 

[CoasterTalkBob]

Like Horseboy when they said he could talk to somebody in Jamaica.

I'll be honest with you, I kind of applaud the rep that said that. Being in that situation I would probably feel a little better if I knew that the rep understood my frustration and that comment clearly made it seem that way. I know it's not ideal from a company perspective but I appreciate the honesty......

 

[I64 Trekker]

So the surcharges comment gives me a follow up questions:

If inflation caused cost problems for the company would you rather see:
Surcharge that could be temporary.
Cost increase with same portion sizes.
Smaller portions with the same cost.

The surcharges are really icing on the cake, so if there are problems with costs or profit margins, either reduce the package size or increase the cost.

When I go to a theme park, I know the prices are already vastly inflated, and then SEAS wants to charge me another 5% more? Screw that. Heck, even Dan Snyder hasn't tried doing something like this at FedEx field!

 

[warfelg]

The surcharges are really icing on the cake, so if there are problems with costs or profit margins, either reduce the package size or increase the cost.

When I go to a theme park, I know the prices are already vastly inflated, and then SEAS wants to charge me another 5% more? Screw that. Heck, even Dan Snyder hasn't tried doing something like this at FedEx field!

At most stadiums they have someone else (Aramark/Sysco) run concessions for them.

 

[RollyCoaster]

I’m at work right now and will write more later. To give some insight… I kid you not was handed a mop by an employee in the Festhaus bathroom and was asked to mop whatever stall I intended on using.

This is one of many things that were just off that I experienced on Friday. That was definately the icing on the cake though. Never, ever have I felt so humiliated at a theme park.

I’ll write more about why I canceled my pass. It’s a combination of guest services, policies, pricing, cleanliness, and overall experience.

 

[mtpelepele]

So the surcharges comment gives me a follow up questions:

If inflation caused cost problems for the company would you rather see:
Surcharge that could be temporary.
Cost increase with same portion sizes.
Smaller portions with the same cost.

The problem is that we have reduced sizes, increased price, reduced quality, AND the surcharge.

 

[Zachary]

I’m at work right now and will write more later. To give some insight… I kid you not was handed a mop by an employee in the Festhaus bathroom and was asked to mop whatever stall I intended on using.

This is one of many things that were just off that I experienced on Friday. That was definately the icing on the cake though. Never, ever have I felt so humiliated at a theme park.

I’ll write more about why I canceled my pass. It’s a combination of guest services, policies, pricing, cleanliness, and overall experience.

Holy shit, please give us all the details about this Festhaus bathroom incident. I've never looked forward to tweeting about someone's BGW experience more than I am right now. My popcorn is ready.

 

[Icer]

If inflation caused cost problems for the company would you rather see:

I think it is also bold to assume this inflation actually caused costs to go up when it moreso came because companies saw the opportunity to charge more because of people coming out of COVID and spending like crazy with no regard. I highly doubt BGW's costs are higher now than they were two years ago when things were actually difficult.

Allowing companies to justify price hikes because of "inflation, what can ya do" is actually what causes inflation to get worse in times like these. Since we aren't really in a period of proper inflation where there was too much money to go around, we are essentially causing stagflation by further feeding the beast between stimulus and not pushing back against these outrageous price hikes. Quarterly financials are miraculously better across the markets since these price hikes due to "inflation" have occurred. If there was true inflation, quarters wouldn't see major rebounds from price hiking to account for it, they would remain relatively similar. We have created basically a synthetic period of stagflation, so I don't think any of it was necessary.

 

[warfelg]

I'm not justifying anything right now. It's whatever to me at this point. My usual optimistic views have been beaten to shit and it's not worth my emotional state to try anymore.

 

[Zachary]

I highly doubt BGW's costs are higher now than they were two years ago when things were actually difficult.

SEAS would like to point out to you that their aggressive pattern of stock buy-backs in pursuit of an ever-rising share price is actually increasing their "costs."

 

[warfelg]

The problem is that we have reduced sizes, increased price, reduced quality, AND the surcharge.

The only thing different to me this year from past years was the surcharge. I didn't feel like my meal was any smaller than before, and I kinda thought the quality was always kinda crap TBH.

 

[Zachary]

I mean, we have photos showing the significant portion changes. Look at shots of the old Festhaus sandwich or chocolate cake vs what's served today. Les Frites and Josephine's are other great examples. If you look at the servings pictured in even semi-recent BGWFans' posts about those eateries and compare the servings to what is being offered today, the difference is dramatic.

As for quality, everyone is, of course, entitled to their own opinions, but I'm sure you'd agree that your position—that BGW food quality was "always kinda crap"—would put you in the minority, right? Mass public opinion seemed to disagree ardently with that just five to ten years ago.

 

[Icer]

Even 5 years ago I'd say the quality was a lot better than now. 10 years ago, forget about it. Trappers used to be a genuine contender in the area's BBQ market and I felt like I was getting a semi-authentic experience at Festhaus.