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Aug 18, 2015
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One thing I’ve always admired about professional sports franchise fans is that, despite all the toxicity in that community, when a team is failing, fans hold ownership accountable. They yell at the franchise owners. They tell them clearly: sell the team. If the team sucks, they tell ownership to sell it. So I’ve always wondered why theme park fans don’t do the same thing.

When I was growing up, Kings Dominion would get a major new attraction every two to three years, with a medium-sized attraction in between. Every single year there was something new to look forward to — new rides, new live stage shows, new restaurants. The park map would even list everything new for that year. But ever since I graduated high school, we’re now in a world where the park gets maybe one major attraction every ten years, with a medium one halfway through. That’s not growth — that’s maintenance.

The park’s capacity has actually shrunk. They removed two big roller coasters — Anaconda and Shockwave — and in my opinion, neither was ever properly replaced. Rapterra is a good ride, but it’s not an E-ticket attraction or a standout the way Volcano was. The only ride removed since I graduated high school that got an appropriate replacement was Hurler. So they’re effectively shrinking the park by reducing the number of high-capacity, large E-ticket attractions, and they’ve slowed the rate of major investment to less than 25% of what it was in the first part of the century.

And now, on top of all that, they’re planning to sell the land around the park to developers building AI data centers. I don’t know exactly what the impacts of data centers are on a theme park’s electrical grid, on noise pollution, or on the small businesses that rely on park traffic. But is Six Flags even asking these questions? If they seriously intended to grow this park — to build large new attractions, a second gate, a resort hotel — why would they be selling off all the surrounding land to be converted into AI data centers that will strain local resources? I think they’re going to permanently kneecap this property, and I don’t hear anyone saying it. Maybe we all think it’s inevitable, or maybe it’s human nature to rationalize things we can’t control.

At this point, Six Flags has stated clearly that they will sell parks that aren’t part of their long-term plan for growth. And it’s been clear since at least 2015 that Kings Dominion is not part of that plan. It’s not in direct competition with any other Six Flags park, now that Six Flags America has closed. So why don’t they sell it?



I think fans of this park — people who grew up going there as children, many of us who worked there as teenagers — should rise up and demand that this company sell it. It should go to a different operator. If Worlds of Fun and Valley Fair can be sold, Kings Dominion can be sold. And it’s obvious the park could be what it used to be: Busch Gardens has grown tremendously over the last ten years, the surveys BGW sends out prove they intent to grow. So that suggests demand is there, and also the DC Metro is growing. The market is still there, in fact now more than ever. It’s just that this ownership and management aren’t interested in growing this property.



You may say we don’t have any influence over it. I disagree. I think these people pay attention to message boards and forums and online communities. And I think the theme park community — for the sake of the park itself, for the sake of the small businesses and employees who rely on it — has a duty to demand that the park be sold.



One more thing I want to mention: the removal of Volcano was preventable. The cancellation of WinterFest was preventable. The revolving door of full-time employees is preventable. I’m not here to say that everything Cedar Fair / Six Flags has done to this park has been bad. Twisted Timbers is good. The new Grizzly is good. Planet Snoopy is good. They’ve done plenty of good things. What I’m here to say is that they are not going to invest in this park. They’re going to invest the bare minimum needed to keep it running, and they’re going to do cheap cash grabs — like selling off all the excess land. They should sell the park instead.
 
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Where to even begin?

-Your perception of how frequently "major attractions" were added in the past is tinted by nostalgia.

-The fact that you consider Shockwave a "big roller coaster" and not Rapterra removes any credibility you may have had.

-The fact that SFA no longer exists gives KD more reason to stay under SFEC ownership, not less. By selling the park, SFEC is basically completely abandoning the area and giving the entire Virginia market to Busch Gardens and whoever takes over.

-Yes, they are trying to sell the excess land, but who ends up buying it is anyone's guess - it may be data centers, it may be warehouses, it may be absolutely anything under the sun.

At this point, Six Flags has stated clearly that they will sell parks that aren’t part of their long-term plan for growth. And it’s been clear since at least 2015 that Kings Dominion is not part of that plan. It’s not in direct competition with any other Six Flags park, now that Six Flags America has closed. So why don’t they sell it?
Since 2015 (your totally arbitrary cut off year), the park has gotten:
-A major waterpark expansion.
-Delirium to replace Shockwave (whose manufacturer was out of business making getting parts difficult).
-Additional rides in Planet Snoopy.
-Twisted Timbers, easily tied for best ride in the park to many.
-A minor waterpark expansion.
-A fucked up year in 2020 in which the park did not open until December, and only on an extremely-limited basis.
-The Jungle X-Pedition refresh, with two new coasters (one of them unquestionably major), rethemes of Avalanche and Scrambler, redoing infrastructure in the area, and the restaurant refreshes.
-A near-complete retrack of Grizzly which has taken it from possibly the worst coaster in the park to a top-3.

That isn't what you do to a park that you don't care about.

You close with...

What I’m here to say is that they are not going to invest in this park. They’re going to invest the bare minimum needed to keep it running, and they’re going to do cheap cash grabs — like selling off all the excess land. They should sell the park instead.
They literally just spent tens of millions of dollars over the past few years on the Jungle X-Pedition retheme, and added two roller coasters, one of them major. If you don't see that as "investment," I don't know what to tell you.

Please try to be rational.
 
One thing I’ve always admired about professional sports franchise fans is that, despite all the toxicity in that community, when a team is failing, fans hold ownership accountable. They yell at the franchise owners. They tell them clearly: sell the team. If the team sucks, they tell ownership to sell it. So I’ve always wondered why theme park fans don’t do the same thing.

When I was growing up, Kings Dominion would get a major new attraction every two to three years, with a medium-sized attraction in between. Every single year there was something new to look forward to — new rides, new live stage shows, new restaurants. The park map would even list everything new for that year. But ever since I graduated high school, we’re now in a world where the park gets maybe one major attraction every ten years, with a medium one halfway through. That’s not growth — that’s maintenance.

The park’s capacity has actually shrunk. They removed two big roller coasters — Anaconda and Shockwave — and in my opinion, neither was ever properly replaced. Rapterra is a good ride, but it’s not an E-ticket attraction or a standout the way Volcano was. The only ride removed since I graduated high school that got an appropriate replacement was Hurler. So they’re effectively shrinking the park by reducing the number of high-capacity, large E-ticket attractions, and they’ve slowed the rate of major investment to less than 25% of what it was in the first part of the century.

And now, on top of all that, they’re planning to sell the land around the park to developers building AI data centers. I don’t know exactly what the impacts of data centers are on a theme park’s electrical grid, on noise pollution, or on the small businesses that rely on park traffic. But is Six Flags even asking these questions? If they seriously intended to grow this park — to build large new attractions, a second gate, a resort hotel — why would they be selling off all the surrounding land to be converted into AI data centers that will strain local resources? I think they’re going to permanently kneecap this property, and I don’t hear anyone saying it. Maybe we all think it’s inevitable, or maybe it’s human nature to rationalize things we can’t control.

At this point, Six Flags has stated clearly that they will sell parks that aren’t part of their long-term plan for growth. And it’s been clear since at least 2015 that Kings Dominion is not part of that plan. It’s not in direct competition with any other Six Flags park, now that Six Flags America has closed. So why don’t they sell it?



I think fans of this park — people who grew up going there as children, many of us who worked there as teenagers — should rise up and demand that this company sell it. It should go to a different operator. If Worlds of Fun and Valley Fair can be sold, Kings Dominion can be sold. And it’s obvious the park could be what it used to be: Busch Gardens has grown tremendously over the last ten years, the surveys BGW sends out prove they intent to grow. So that suggests demand is there, and also the DC Metro is growing. The market is still there, in fact now more than ever. It’s just that this ownership and management aren’t interested in growing this property.



You may say we don’t have any influence over it. I disagree. I think these people pay attention to message boards and forums and online communities. And I think the theme park community — for the sake of the park itself, for the sake of the small businesses and employees who rely on it — has a duty to demand that the park be sold.



One more thing I want to mention: the removal of Volcano was preventable. The cancellation of WinterFest was preventable. The revolving door of full-time employees is preventable. I’m not here to say that everything Cedar Fair / Six Flags has done to this park has been bad. Twisted Timbers is good. The new Grizzly is good. Planet Snoopy is good. They’ve done plenty of good things. What I’m here to say is that they are not going to invest in this park. They’re going to invest the bare minimum needed to keep it running, and they’re going to do cheap cash grabs — like selling off all the excess land. They should sell the park instead.
 

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-The fact that you consider Shockwave a "big roller coaster" and not Rapterra removes any credibility you may have had.
I haven’t been on a TOGO standup myself, but my brother has (Standing Coaster at Rusutsu Resort) and he absolutely hated it. The closure of Shockwave improved the lineup by default.
-Twisted Timbers, easily tied for best ride in the park to many.
The coaster that put GASM’s 17 year reign as my #1 to rest? Yeah, I’d say it was probably a solid investment lol.

It’s certainly not out of the question for the park to be sold, but in the meantime, they very clearly do care about the park, even if some questionable at best decisions have been made.
 
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Where to even begin?

-Your perception of how frequently "major attractions" were added in the past is tinted by nostalgia.

-The fact that you consider Shockwave a "big roller coaster" and not Rapterra removes any credibility you may have had.

-The fact that SFA no longer exists gives KD more reason to stay under SFEC ownership, not less. By selling the park, SFEC is basically completely abandoning the area and giving the entire Virginia market to Busch Gardens and whoever takes over.

-Yes, they are trying to sell the excess land, but who ends up buying it is anyone's guess - it may be data centers, it may be warehouses, it may be absolutely anything under the sun.


Since 2015 (your totally arbitrary cut off year), the park has gotten:
-A major waterpark expansion.
-Delirium to replace Shockwave (whose manufacturer was out of business making getting parts difficult).
-Additional rides in Planet Snoopy.
-Twisted Timbers, easily tied for best ride in the park to many.
-A minor waterpark expansion.
-A fucked up year in 2020 in which the park did not open until December, and only on an extremely-limited basis.
-The Jungle X-Pedition refresh, with two new coasters (one of them unquestionably major), rethemes of Avalanche and Scrambler, redoing infrastructure in the area, and the restaurant refreshes.
-A near-complete retrack of Grizzly which has taken it from possibly the worst coaster in the park to a top-3.

That isn't what you do to a park that you don't care about.

You close with...


They literally just spent tens of millions of dollars over the past few years on the Jungle X-Pedition retheme, and added two roller coasters, one of them major. If you don't see that as "investment," I don't know what to tell you.

Please try to be rational.
I’m not saying 2015-2025 had no new attractions. I’m saying it had substantially less than 2005-2015.

Please see the attached Pdf
 

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I’m not saying 2015-2025 had no new attractions. I’m saying it had substantially less than 2005-2015.

Please see the attached Pdf
I don't know how you can look at that list and call 2015-2025 "substantially less," especially in terms of cash investment, than 2005-2015. Dominator, Americana, and El Dorado cost legacy CF little more than transportation and infrastructure costs. Take those three out of the equation, and maybe even the last few Paramount additions in 2005 and 2006, and it's basically identical.
 
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When I think of a theme park I think of a few things:

- Good quality and quantity of coasters
- Cohesive theming
- Good variety of flat rides
- Comfortable atmosphere
- Dark/indoor attractions
- Rides for kids and non-thrill seekers to ride
- Good quality and quantity of food and beverage locations

Kings Dominion had been lacking in some of these categories (theming, dark rides, food/beverage) when Cedar Fair bought it; since then they've grown it. There's obviously still room for improvement, but it's still pretty good.

That it also has a water park built in without requiring an extra charge for entry makes it stand out against other chains.

Unless they sell to another operator that will make every attempt to get it to the next level and beyond, I don't think there's a need to sell.
 
Let me explain a little further

I don’t think anyone here would argue that Kings Dominion has received investment on the level of it’s larger sister parks in the last decade. The new Six Flags has a lot more parks to focus on - GAdv etc.

During Paramount’s ownership and the early Cedar Fair era, the level of capital expenditure in Kings Dominion was equivalent to or exceeded all those other parks. Kings Dominion was evidently deprioritized in the chain in the mid 2010s, and I don’t believe that’s speculation… I think that’s largely confirmed

From this article “2 NC Governments Consider Incentives for Carowinds”:
CHARLOTTE, NC (AP) — Local governments are considering whether to help Carowinds by giving more than $900,000 in incentives to the corporate owner of the theme park that straddles the North Carolina-South Carolina.
…Carowinds hasn’t threatened to move the park. But city economic developer Brad Richardson says the corporate owner was thinking about expanding either Carowinds or King’s Dominion in Virginia.
There are other sources, but this was the first one I found.

My point is this - Kings Dominion has the potential to be a much larger theme park in terms of attendance than it is today, and I point the blame squarely at its owners for the lack of capital expenditure allocated to the park. I would prefer John Reilly, frankly, shit or get off the pot at KD.


Also, if my original post sounded slightly emotional… that doesn’t mean i’m trolling! I’m a little upset about the demolition of Volcano (10 years later but whatever), as well as a Haunt maze where I made a lot of memories as a teenager being turned in to something that looks like a Goodwill department store. It’s quite sad
 
I'll add that I305 was added in 2010 because they were falling behind their competition even in the rides dept. Later Fury was added at Carowinds because that park was still behind where it needed to be.
 
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-Your perception of how frequently "major attractions" were added in the past is tinted by nostalgia.
There was a good stretch where every single year something big happened at either BGW or KD - They alternated, so every other year for a good stretch each park got something. That's not Nostalgia, that's literally what happened.
 
Let me explain a little further

I don’t think anyone here would argue that Kings Dominion has received investment on the level of it’s larger sister parks in the last decade. The new Six Flags has a lot more parks to focus on - GAdv etc.

During Paramount’s ownership and the early Cedar Fair era, the level of capital expenditure in Kings Dominion was equivalent to or exceeded all those other parks. Kings Dominion was evidently deprioritized in the chain in the mid 2010s, and I don’t believe that’s speculation… I think that’s largely confirmed

From this article “2 NC Governments Consider Incentives for Carowinds”:


There are other sources, but this was the first one I found.

My point is this - Kings Dominion has the potential to be a much larger theme park in terms of attendance than it is today, and I point the blame squarely at its owners for the lack of capital expenditure allocated to the park. I would prefer John Reilly, frankly, shit or get off the pot at KD.


Also, if my original post sounded slightly emotional… that doesn’t mean i’m trolling! I’m a little upset about the demolition of Volcano (10 years later but whatever), as well as a Haunt maze where I made a lot of memories as a teenager being turned in to something that looks like a Goodwill department store. It’s quite sad
Alternative viewpoint to this: Cedar Fair didn’t see any ROI on the larger additions so they pivoted to other parks that did show ROI when they added something large.

Since KD didn’t see the ROI Cedar Fair was expecting, they stopped investing as heavily into it. There’s rumors that Rapterra also didn’t perform as expected.

It’s all about the ROI. If the investment isn’t working, Six Flags isn’t going to continue spending as much money.
 
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When I think of a theme park I think of a few things:

- Good quality and quantity of coasters
- Cohesive theming
- Good variety of flat rides
- Comfortable atmosphere
- Dark/indoor attractions
- Rides for kids and non-thrill seekers to ride
- Good quality and quantity of food and beverage locations

Kings Dominion had been lacking in some of these categories (theming, dark rides, food/beverage) when Cedar Fair bought it; since then they've grown it. There's obviously still room for improvement, but it's still pretty good.

That it also has a water park built in without requiring an extra charge for entry makes it stand out against other chains.

Unless they sell to another operator that will make every attempt to get it to the next level and beyond, I don't think there's a need to sell.
Ding ding ding. I agree with this 100%. The idea that KD has received fewer investments in recent years than in the distant past is only true if you only count big new attractions as “investments.”

KD was not an enjoyable park in the 2000s and early 2010s, in my opinion. The park seemed to focus only on rides and coasters with next to no care about theming, landscaping, food, or just making the visit enjoyable. Over the past 10-15 years Cedar Fair (and then Six Flags) shifted heavily to investing in beautifying the park and improving the experience with theming, landscaping, better maintained infrastructure, and much better food, to name a few. It’s actually incredible how much KD has blossomed from a dumpy amusement park into a charming, well rounded, borderline theme park in a little over a decade. I don’t think people appreciate just how bad this park used to be not that long ago.

@Avalancher your points are well taken, and I don’t think it’s fair to assume you didn’t post in good faith. I just think your assumptions are off-base because from my perspective, KD’s parent company has absolutely still been investing in the park — they’ve just shifted where their dollars are going to things that have a more meaningful impact (IMO) than just new rides.

I’d even go so far to suggest that the opposite is true. While BGW has invested in lots of big rides lately, the park experience has massively suffered. I long for the days when BGW had just four big coasters but they really cared about quality, cleanliness, good food, and an enjoyable guest experience.
 
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