Flat rides are very overrated on this forum. Just give me a larger, more quality coaster in the plot unless it’s insanely well themed like Talocan.
Project 2025: Jungle X-Pedition Retheme Phase II
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Good flats make for a good well balanced park. Flats aren’t talked enough IMO.
Jungle-X has six coasters (Tumbili technically does count as I see it) and one flat ride. That's an insane misbalance for one area of the park. As much as I'm inclined to seeing a major coaster in that plot, I think at least one flat should be added as well.
I thought that the social media person gave a hard confirm to a user here on no new rides for next year though? I really was hoping they could pull a KI and announce rides later. Maybe they just want it to be a surprise.
I thought that the social media person gave a hard confirm to a user here on no new rides for next year though? I really was hoping they could pull a KI and announce rides later. Maybe they just want it to be a surprise.
That’s correct. Kyle the KD Blog writer confirmed to me at the pass holder ERT we were not getting anything ride hardware wise. He also claimed it was “to not take away from Dorney.” Which from a business perspective to me that means “the capex allocation did not hit KD on the spreadsheet for next year.”
Flats can also be purchased and installed much faster than most major attractions but there were no new flats announced by Cedar Fair for 2024 as of right now. Cedar Fair historically has been a very routine species with Kings Dominion on new capex additions when it comes to the calendar. I personally can’t remember any year where they announced a new addition after August, that said I haven’t gone back and checked their full 48 year history of attraction announcement dates.
Flats can also be purchased and installed much faster than most major attractions but there were no new flats announced by Cedar Fair for 2024 as of right now. Cedar Fair historically has been a very routine species with Kings Dominion on new capex additions when it comes to the calendar. I personally can’t remember any year where they announced a new addition after August, that said I haven’t gone back and checked their full 48 year history of attraction announcement dates.
How many parks does CF have? I find it a little concerning that capx needs to be spread so much that you can’t give some parks anything, then lean on the “don’t want to take away” reasoning? Are that many people really picking between Dorney and KD?
To be fair I doubt the info Kyle gave me was 100% accurate on “not wanting to take away from Dorney.” I doubt he’s in a lot of Capex meetings for other parks or even KD before the “decision” is made. It’s likely Cedar Fair has a limited amount of Capex to spread each season when they allocate it out. Hence why the lower volume parks see fewer and far between additions when the larger parks absorb quite a bit of it each season.
They announced the first Planet Snoopy expansion in September 2012, and while not technically an attraction the 40th celebration was announced in September of the following year.
I seriously wonder what KD’s going to do if this will be another off-year, especially concerning Jungle X-Pedition. Will they even do anything for their 50th?
Parks going several seasons without a major addition isn’t uncommon. I think a lot of peoples’ perspectives are warped by SEAS’ current “new ride at every park every year” strategy, which is abnormal for the industry (and seemingly comes at the expense of tons of cuts throughout the rest of the park experience). You can point to plenty of years in both BGW and KD’s historíes without major additions.
Not really. It would be quite lazy to just put a bunch of off the shelf attractions in Volcano’s spot.
Ok? I don't feel this answered my questions though, and it goes right at why I have my concerns over CF completing projects.
I decided to look it up, and it's 17 parks and 11 hotels that they need to spread CapX spending around. That's a lot to have to handle and if they simply can't spend in some parks/properties, then I have concerns. IMO the better parks tend to have some form of Capx spending yearly. Remember that capx isn't always "new ride at every park every year", it can also be things like continuing to renovate theme areas, it can be updating infrastructure, it can be investments in entertainment. So no, SEAS hasn't skewed my perspective or warped it.
I also am baffled by the "don't want to take away from Dorney" comment because KI and CP are far closer and they both got whole new themed areas (Adventure Port and Boardwalk) in 2023; in 2011 both parks got a WindSeeker; in 2014 KI got Banshee and CP got SlingShot, Lake Erie Eagles, and Pipe Scream. So even that falls a little flat as those parks are 70miles closer to each other than the other two.
I think a more reasonable explanation from the park would be no capx in 2024 to do something big in 2025 for a 50th. I mentioned it a little while ago but I've got investments CF as part of my holdings, so it would make me want to keep my money in a sinking stock if they said that over "the two parks are too close".
So parks should be all coasters? You need good flat packages in a park. Just like you need a good mix of intense, thrill, family, and kid coasters. Additionally I don't think the posters making comments like yours really have a good feel for just how big Volcano's plot really was. It's about 113k sqft, and in reality you can get to 200k sqft in that area if you really wanted too. If they push for that higher end of space they could fit a Pantheon sized coaster (queue included) and have roughly 50k sqft left for pathways and flats. If they went for a Mystic Timbers/InvadR sized coaster there would be almost 80k sqft for a flat package. In both cases that's enough space for something like a coaster and Da Vinci's garden in the space and buildout area where Volcano was.
Says who? Lol. People go to parks like kings dominion for coasters first and foremost. I think what they’re doing with jungle X is great but there’s already plenty of flat rides in the park, there’s no rule that says they need to add more.
Nah you can’t just equate those two, huge size difference. An Invadr sized coaster to replace volcano would be a massive letdown.
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I don't think it makes much sense to assume that the majority of guests go to amusement parks primarily for coasters. Do you have any data to support that claim? It seems odd to me that parks invest so much in other attractions, if that is actually true.
A balance of attraction types is very likely better for bringing in more guests, especially families that spend money.
A balance of attraction types is very likely better for bringing in more guests, especially families that spend money.
Plenty of flat rides in the park but not enough in Jungle X-Pedition, an area dominated by coasters. Why stress so much that whatever goes in place of Volcano can only be a coaster while the west side of the Eiffel Tower only has Grizzly and TT? You could literally put one decent flat ride on the Volcano plot and still have room for a major coaster. There’s also no rule that they can only add so many flat rides in the park unless due to space constraints.
Personally I get very annoyed when people forcefully knock down others’ ideas by saying things like “no that’s a horrible idea. It HAS to be this.” It’s just disrespectful to other people’s imaginations.
Personally I get very annoyed when people forcefully knock down others’ ideas by saying things like “no that’s a horrible idea. It HAS to be this.” It’s just disrespectful to other people’s imaginations.
Coming back around - I'd be very curious if there's a reasonable way KD marketing/PR could swing the idea of a non-coaster in the Volcano plot?
Anecdotally, it seems the mountain structure is the second park icon to the Eiffel Tower (hard to say, it may have considered the secondary to the mountain) in the minds of potential guests. When the coaster went in, it became synonymous with the iconic structure.
When both the mountain and coaster were demolished, the secondary icon was removed. Though the topspin across the way was well-ridden, it wasn't as well remembered as the coaster; thus when it was replaced with Tumbili we started hearing the average guest/potential guest assume it to be the Volcano replacement and were thus disappointed.
If the park doesn't put a coaster in that spot, I get the feeling that from the marketability part of the ROI equation would be in question unless either the alternative experience is so good that it compares to the expectation of a new high thrill coaster, or a different area of the park is renovated to take the place of the secondary icon of the park along with a new coaster in that location.
Knowing how CP's capex distribution is, it's highly unlikely in my mind that either of those alternatives would be favored over the relative low cost of simply putting a coaster on the Volcano plot.
Anecdotally, it seems the mountain structure is the second park icon to the Eiffel Tower (hard to say, it may have considered the secondary to the mountain) in the minds of potential guests. When the coaster went in, it became synonymous with the iconic structure.
When both the mountain and coaster were demolished, the secondary icon was removed. Though the topspin across the way was well-ridden, it wasn't as well remembered as the coaster; thus when it was replaced with Tumbili we started hearing the average guest/potential guest assume it to be the Volcano replacement and were thus disappointed.
If the park doesn't put a coaster in that spot, I get the feeling that from the marketability part of the ROI equation would be in question unless either the alternative experience is so good that it compares to the expectation of a new high thrill coaster, or a different area of the park is renovated to take the place of the secondary icon of the park along with a new coaster in that location.
Knowing how CP's capex distribution is, it's highly unlikely in my mind that either of those alternatives would be favored over the relative low cost of simply putting a coaster on the Volcano plot.
Especially right now as Drop Tower is in a prolonged down time and seems to constantly have issue, Delerium is down, WindSeeker is temperamental with breezes, Eiffel Tower is out, Action Theater is out of use. (I think I got all of them).
Not to mention the (often) long walks between flats adds to the necessity to get more in there.
Planet Snoopy is loaded with flats and works well for families with young kids. Jungle X has four younger kid coasters and only a single flat. There’s plenty of opportunity to add flats in Jungle X and make it a more well rounded area (and yes I think you go all flats in the Volcano plot, if you built a stand out coaster elsewhere in the park).
I can just say, the majority of park guests are just normal people trying to do something fun with their families. They have little to no interest in who made what ride in the park. They want their family to have a fun and exciting day. If people need the most blunt honest opinion, that is just what we’re dealing with. Not thoosies, not platinum pass holders. They are simply there to make sure their kids have a fun experience and couldn’t give a rats ass what company made what ride and their safety record is solid. That’s all a general guest wants out of a park visit. It’s wild to me somebody will just be like “oh we didn’t get to Pantheon/Twisted Timbers because we didn’t have time and the line was really long but we did ride Anaconda.” THAT is the scope of a non thoosie at a park. Oh a rides in captain coasters Top 50? They do not care and never will. But that should absolutely never in a million years subtract from ANY of our enjoyment of a theme park.
Given that KD's marketing stated "no new ride hardware" in Jungle X, does not mean that nothing could happen for 2024. The park could extend the Jungle X detailed thematic elements all the way to Anaconda next year; especially if BLSC recieved a theme makeover.
Given all the surveying going on in Volcano's location this summer, something is happening in the near future. Just not for 2024.
I wonder if 2024 will be used for infrastructure improvements such as the parking lot and parking toll booths. Maybe changes at the front gate with permanent structures built for the new metal detectors and bag check lanes. Seems plausible given the 50th anniversary in 2025
Given all the surveying going on in Volcano's location this summer, something is happening in the near future. Just not for 2024.
I wonder if 2024 will be used for infrastructure improvements such as the parking lot and parking toll booths. Maybe changes at the front gate with permanent structures built for the new metal detectors and bag check lanes. Seems plausible given the 50th anniversary in 2025
I would say a Backlot retheme could be as simple as a quick social media or blog post if it all it costs is paint and some thematic elements. I don’t think that’s likely personally right now, I could see it coming along with the new ride in 2025 like Reptillian and Apple Zapple. It certainly doesn’t mean “nothing.” When we’re referring to Capex allocations it would refer to very large investments in major long term assets (like roller coasters and other attractions) that they typically announce at the annual pass sale for the following season. It’s likely more than new ride hardware, restaurants, and hotels is discussed during these allocation meetings but they don’t see the need to “announce” those smaller allocations.
Park infrastructure improvements may or may not be acknowledged publicly by a park since oftentimes they don’t necessarily require the budget figures a major new ride would need and they don’t have the “marketing hit” a new ride does. So you may just have somebody go and notice then post about it here or you will go and see it yourself like “huh, they did that thing.” Or they announce it on social media casually.
Park infrastructure improvements may or may not be acknowledged publicly by a park since oftentimes they don’t necessarily require the budget figures a major new ride would need and they don’t have the “marketing hit” a new ride does. So you may just have somebody go and notice then post about it here or you will go and see it yourself like “huh, they did that thing.” Or they announce it on social media casually.
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